Match-Up Discussion - Goro Goro MU Discussion Thread

[chief713]

Not really. Most of the matchups I've played have felt bad, but manageable. As in, I can win but I have to work harder than my opponent. The only ones where I've felt helpless are Kitana and Sonya.

 

[BunLantern]

The only 3 characters that I'm sure beat Goro as of right now are Kung Lao (All), Scorpion (Inferno, Hellfire), and Tanya (Dragon Naginata being the worst).

The only character I'm sure that he has the advantage over is Sub-Zero (Unbreakable might make it even because it negates MB PW, but that can be baited and punished heavily.)

Characters that I think MAY have the advantage on Goro are Ermac (MOS), Takeda (SR), and Mileena (Rav and Piercing).

Characters that I think Goro MAY have the advantage on Kotal Kahn (All), Kitana (All), Jason (All)

Characters that are even with Gman are Kenshi (Kenjutsu, Balanced), Cassie (All), Kung Jin (Blowjutsu), Kano (Cyber), Shinnok (Imp), EB (OL and MM), Reptile (All), Daddy Cage (A list and Stunt Double), D'vorah (SQ might be tougher)

No clue on Raiden, Jax, Sonya, Jaqui, Kang, F/T, Quan, or any other variation not listed.

 

[chief713]

^ What do you think gives Goro the advantage over Kitana in Assassin and Storm? I'm having a lot of trouble against that character.

 

[Gurg]

Ok so I got to test against Tanya ex teleport a bit..

EX PW and SG do nothing except give her an opportunity to combo Goro. Same goes for 3d3 (the first hit of 3d3 seems to whiff because she's too low). Maaaaaaybe 3d3 can work, I only tested a little bit, but if it does (if!) It definitely isn't easy.

EX telestomp can actually hit her, but only if you're a little bit out and can hit on the way up. If Goro is too close, the upward portion of EX telestomp will whiff and she can air teleport to avoid the stomp portion.

If Goro blocks it, he definitely cannot hit her for free.. if you know she's going to instantly teleport away, you can make a hard read after blocking and nail her with a ground pound as she lands. But if she doesn't teleport away you're fucked. Again, EX telestomp is good here, because if she doesn't teleport away you can armor through her air attack and get her, and if she teleports it will track and (usually lol) hit her with the stomp portion... I still need to test if she can backdash it.

On the other hand, Goro can actually make her EX teleport whiff completely because it hits high. A low attack or just crouching will cause it to whiff completely. But it STILL seems like Goro can't hit her for free? (I hope I'm wrong)

If Goro is too close, he won't turn around in time to uppercut her when it whiffs and she can get away. Goro can neutral jump punch after the whiff, which should beat her attacks, but I don't think it will stop her from air teleporting away either.

TL;DR - EX telestomp is the only reliable punish I've found, and even then she can sometimes avoid it. If Goro makes a hard read on her teleporting away after it, he can ground pound to hit her as she lands.

 

[D_Matt_Ma]

Gurg, your findings echo what I am seeing too. I also hate the Kitana match-up. Goro's height and her air fans on all variations make it a pain for Goro to do anything. I tried Tigrar Fury and that's the most luck I've had, but She will always win the trade due to advantage of fans being so high and recovery on air fans being so fast.

 

[Alright RyRy]

Anybody with Strong zoning gives Goro problems. Jacqui, Kitana and especially Tanya.

Tanya kills Goro, since everything Goro does pushes her away and knocks her down she gets away.

 

[D_Matt_Ma]

Anybody with Strong zoning gives Goro problems. Jacqui, Kitana and especially Tanya.

Tanya kills Goro, since everything Goro does pushes her away and knocks her down she gets away.

Tanya gives problems not because of zoning, but because she can run away. She can fight Goro in all variations because of teleports.

 

[Alright RyRy]

Tanya gives problems not because of zoning, but because she can run away. She can fight Goro in all variations because of teleports.

Yeah, I know. Zoning characters are space control characters, just like Tanya.

 

[D_Matt_Ma]

Yeah, I know. Zoning characters are space control characters, just like Tanya.

She beats him with her rushdown variation. There's no zoning there. It's just when she does a wake-up, Goro can't do anything, but when it's the other way around, Tanya has options. Goro has no answer to the actual move, not the strategy. That's when you know the match-up is absolutely impossible.

 

[BunLantern]

^ What do you think gives Goro the advantage over Kitana in Assassin and Storm? I'm having a lot of trouble against that character.

He can stuff all of her wake ups if timed right with B3 into MB PW, and Goro's just better up close in general. All you have to do for Kitana is block low unless she's coming at you with a jump in.

Use Tigrar in this matchup, Goro's fireballs are comparable to Kitana's fans and if a zoning war starts you always have the option to telestomp which is better than her assassin charge or reflect. KW ground pound isn't as useful against a Kitana chucking Instant air fans all day and shokan bolt just can't compete with fans. Playing KW in this matchup might make it seem bad imo.

You have to pressure her right from the start of the match, don't back away and let her start throwing fans. That's when people start to get flustered and get hit by stuff they shouldn't be. From what I've been experiencing Goro can take control of this match very quickly. All that being said I did put her in the MAY have the advantage category because I'm still not convinced that I know everything about the Kitana match up and I could totally be wrong.

 

[chief713]

Goro is better up close, but he rarely gets the chance to show it. Kitana's F2 has comparable range to Goro's pokes, except Goro has single pokes that leave him very vulnerable to whiff punishes while Kitana has her F22U4 string which she can cancel into Float or fans and make it safe. So while Goro has superior buttons Kitana just doesn't have to get close enough for him to use them.

I don't think Goro's fireball works well, even in Tigrar. It has similar speed and recovery, but Fans are +14 / -8 and fireball is -1 / -13 on hit/block, so once you trade, you lose the fireball war from then on out. If you get close enough to use Low Flame, it's a little better since it causes knockdown, but it's 30f startup and it isn't like chars have a reason to not jump at Goro so I don't get much use out of it.

So she can sit back and throw fans with confidence and wait for Goro to either jump, which she can punish on reaction with jump Fan, which leads to full combo or wait for him to make a slow approach through the fans and attempt to whiff punish what he does. And at first I was using EX stomp to get through the fans and it worked well, but then we discovered that if she does air fans high enough then it will hit Goro after the armor on EX stomp goes away and she gets full combo punish.

A Kitana that is committed to staying away and zoning is very difficult. Even if you play it patient and overcome the lameness I described above, anything you do to her outside of the corner is going to knock her back and you're going to have to start the whole thing over. Conversely, she gets really good oki on Goro with Float, but as mentioned she isn't hard to block so I won't complain about that.

Unless I'm missing something, this match is all high risk, very low reward for Goro IMO.

 

[Doombawkz]

Unless I'm missing something, this match is all high risk, very low reward for Goro IMO.

Ah Chief, I didn't realize you were one of these four-armed freaks.

Shall we discuss the Goro v F/T MU?

 

[Gurg]

I fight against a Raiden player about once a week and he seems to think the match is pretty even.

Sure he's gonna corner me probably and if I get caught in the re-stand grinder I can lose right there, but at least he has to come at me, I have answers for his oki, and I can be just as scary if I get him cornered.

Just thought I'd throw out some optimism in with all this bad news.

 

[MKF30]

I like Goro, newer to him but enjoying the variation with the helmet. IMO it's one of his most zoney ones with the groundpound and tp to mix up, make people think you know.

And the dragon breath one seems good for spacing, zoning a little but I am newer to him. I don't like Dragon Fangs.

 

[chief713]

Ah Chief, I didn't realize you were one of these four-armed freaks.

Shall we discuss the Goro v F/T MU?

Sup Doom. Seeing Bio wreck shop at ECT raised eyebrow a bit; may have seek out the Brotherhood once more. As to the F/T MU, I have never played it outside of 2 very laggy online matches against players that didn't seem to know how to play the game, so I have absolutely no clue whatsoever.

Also, seeing your username made remember your PSN and I totally ignored your invites by accident. Was like, "Who tf is Derp Dewgong??" My bad man; you know I'm down for matches.

 

[Cage Redfield]

I honestly want to see a legitimate Goro player fight someone like a legitimate Kenjutsu Kenshi, Kitana, Cyber Kano or super defensive Liu Kang players. Ryan is totally right, Goro is very susceptible to keepaway strategies. The fact that command grab and punchwalk send the opponent fullscreen doesn't help him at all vs those characters due to his lack of mobility and options from a distance as opposed to Kenshi spamming Kenjutsu BF3 and occasionally running up and doing his push special to negate all forward progress. I've tried playing against keepaway characters by ignoring chip damage and just walking the opponent in the corner, but run up whatever/certain specials or attacks makes that harder and you begin to anticipate run in attempts and it turns into a mind game just to walk forward.

He doesn't feel right at all in terms of game plan. He's a heavy set char with grabs and corner carry from pressure and from combos, so you have to play him offensively, use tick throws, etc. But using tick throws sends you full screen. Actually connecting punchwalk does the same. He doesn't have an amazing forward dash like Grundy to close the distance or offense like Bane that left you near your character and allowing you to pressure afterward. It sucks when you close the gap, make them block a d1 and you know for sure they'll fall for tick throw, it connects and you have to close the gap AGAIN.

I know this isn't the thread for it, but if I were to give Goro an actual serious buff, it'd be SOMETHING to get through zoning or at least a change in mobility so he can close the gap a little easier. With the tools this character has, that wouldn't make him obscenely broken imo (iono, maybe I'm just dumb and that would actually break the character to an insane degree). I've tried to keep as quiet as possible from discussing tiers, mu's and whatever so I don't get murdered for my opinion like I did last time on this site, but this is honestly the real issue with Goro. Not his low damage, not having no answer to jumps. This is probably going to sound dumb for some, but honestly. Zangief has lariat and green hand/EX green hand to combat zoning, Grundy has his dash AND if he gets a tick throw/combo off, his chip negation from his trait. And most chars with command grabs have ways to pressure the opponent after getting a hit.

TL;DR: I feel like Goro doesn't get rewarded for landing a hit or tick throw at the moment. His command grab and Punch Walk are like his only consistent enders in a combo and each send the opponent flying to the opposite side of the screen. Variation specific tools do the same, but Tigrar has the superior corner game imo so I think it's his best variation atm. I guess I'll try to make sweep a viable ender if nothing happens to Goro in the long run, otherwise I don't see a reason to stick with him when I play Erron and Johnny on the side.

 

[Doombawkz]

Honestly I secretly want his body check move in Kuntan (I think) To just eat projectiles ala Torr charge start-up.
That or let him do it in the air.

 

[Mortal Komhat]

So You Somehow Picked Goro Against Tanya And She, For Some Weird Ass Reason, Went Kobu Jutsu
Variant : Tigrar Fury (was the one I tested - Kuatan feels like it wouldn't work well because the one I fought spent a lot of time in the air)

1) EX Telestomp is your best friend in the whole wide world, even more so than Punch Walk in this match-up.
- Wrecks Teleport shenanigans
- Faster than regular telestomp

2) Trades with full-screen tonfa are your advantage on damage, but she recovers faster than you do, so she may be able to duck the fireball.

3) Anything that sends them too far for oki and you are + on hit you can fireball then tele-stomp or fake it to force the Tanya to react.

4) Low-profiling her teleport j1 does work somewhat, but better low profile with d3 instead of d4.

5) Random NJPs are safer than normal due to their tendency to take to the air when they want to go in.

6) If stuck in a barrage of tonfas, f, duck, f, duck, is better than walking straight - you cover more ground.

Don't get me wrong, we're still on the losing end of that match-up (which should be obvious), but we shouldn't act like it's a fucking 9-1 matchup. There are things we can do.

 

[chief713]

So You Somehow Picked Goro Against Tanya And She, For Some Weird Ass Reason, Went Kobu Jutsu
Variant : Tigrar Fury (was the one I tested - Kuatan feels like it wouldn't work well because the one I fought spent a lot of time in the air)

1) EX Telestomp is your best friend in the whole wide world, even more so than Punch Walk in this match-up.
- Wrecks Teleport shenanigans
- Faster than regular telestomp

2) Trades with full-screen tonfa are your advantage on damage, but she recovers faster than you do, so she may be able to duck the fireball.

3) Anything that sends them too far for oki and you are + on hit you can fireball then tele-stomp or fake it to force the Tanya to react.

4) Low-profiling her teleport j1 does work somewhat, but better low profile with d3 instead of d4.

5) Random NJPs are safer than normal due to their tendency to take to the air when they want to go in.

6) If stuck in a barrage of tonfas, f, duck, f, duck, is better than walking straight - you cover more ground.

Don't get me wrong, we're still on the losing end of that match-up (which should be obvious), but we shouldn't act like it's a fucking 9-1 matchup. There are things we can do.

I finally got a chance to run some good sets with Tanya and agree. Stomp is really good against her if the opponent is teleport happy, both normal and EX. My sets were against Pyro and it's definitely hard, but Goro can manage. I will say that if the Tanya player is committed to playing an honest ground game as opposed to flying around everywhere, and just uses meter to escape mixups and the corner, the matchup gets difficult. She builds meter very fast so you'll never really pin her down. You have to make the damage count, which is why I like using Fangs. EX spin combos hurt.

 

[Mortal Komhat]

I'd dare say if they're building meter through tonfa throw, move forward then EX Punchwalk to punish it. They're taking at least 28% in that situation.

 

[chief713]

I haven't played much Kobu, just Pyro. And they build meter by doing air teleport. If they do air tele, fireball and you block, they get like a quarter of a bar. It's kind of ridiculous lol.

 

[D_Matt_Ma]

Careful, if we complain about Tanya too much, they'll think the Goro players are just whiners. Clearly, she's no OP because a lot of people say it's our job to get better...

 

[Matador Fiend]

I normally go dragon fangs always but i am thinking of checking out tigrar fury for some of his worse mus.

I like dragon fangs for the extra damage and extra range on some of his normals including d1

 

[Gurg]

So... how about those Tanya nerfs.

Hehehehe

 

[D_Matt_Ma]

So... how about those Tanya nerfs.

Hehehehe

They're as meaningful in the match-up as Goro's buffs. MEANINGLESS. Nothing has changed. Most Tanyas teleport backwards anyways on wake-up, so they still run away for free. You can stuff the forward air teleport, but with the low kick MB available, you still have to respect it. Our throw buff means nothing as we'll be lucky to ever land it, let alone follow ups aren't possible so nothing has changed.