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General/Other - Ferra/Torr F/T is bottom 5! Lets do this.

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Everyone else made a topic, so its my turn too. As you are aware, we are labeled as a bottom 5 character by a few tournament players. Likewise, "top representatives" of Kano have shown us that we are heavily disadvantaged in that match-up. Certain MUs are being called incredibly hard or almost impossible to compete in, and so I propose some minor changes to bring F/T more in-line with other characters.

F/T Major issues:

Lack of a reliable AA
Low damage output
Not the best pressure options
Moves are generally slow, and armor is almost non-existent to counteract pressure

Reasonable F/T Patch Notes:

Universal:

Ferra Toss no longer loses its hitbox when Torr is hit.
Ferra more responsive in regards to remounting Torr.
Bowl Girl damage increased to 9%
Ferra Toss damage reduced to 9%
Reduced scaling on b.23 2+4 string and f.4
Fixed an issue where f.2 and 4 were not applying correct scaling
Corrected an issue with f.2 in which opponents would sometimes be hit but not launched
b.2 aerial hitbox adjusted to better fit the animation
b.23 cancel window eliminated, bringing it in line with the function of the attack


Ruthless:

Pain and Gain reduced from 71 frames to 51 frames
Pain and Gain damage increased from 17/33/60% to 25/50/75%
Pain and Gain can be meterburned to provide 2 stacks of the buff
Deep Stab damage increased from 11% to 14% to bring it in line with other variations

Vicious:

Boss Toss no longer loses its hitbox when Torr is hit.
Little Kutter has a reduced horizontal hitbox
Little Kutter changed to 14 frames of start-up (down from 20)
Meterburned Little Kutter changed to 10 frames of start-up (down from 14)

Lackey:

Boulder Roll has an improved hitbox
Boulder Roll recovery reduced from 14 to 9 frames
Torr Up hit advantage increased
Charge can now be meterburned at any time during the animation, however this costs 1 bar of stamina if done after the initial start-up.



Toning up certain factors of his gameplay while reducing other ones will ensure he doesn't become too powerful, while ensuring his most notable weaknesses can be covered. Sadly there isn't much of any way to fix his lack of answers for air attacks, but thats a problem the character should have as a counterbalance for his great ground game.


I personally think F/T is probably fine, but as the community doesn't agree with me completely I proposed this list to see what they feel the character needs in order to become what he should be. Likewise, I'd like to see how the community views his weaknesses and if we can figure a way to change them. This is not me asking for buffs, but rather, analyzing that if a change was to be needed, what can we do that wouldn't make him too big to handle.
 
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bdizzle2700

gotta stay sharp!
According to top players (PPJ, PotH) he is bottom 5.
Well that njp is dumb, (we all know it is) and in I think vicious he can like outzone zoners. Or the trade is very heavily in his favor haha. The other variations might need a lil boost buuut idk. Hes too scary.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Well that njp is dumb, (we all know it is) and in I think vicious he can like outzone zoners. Or the trade is very heavily in his favor haha. The other variations might need a lil boost buuut idk. Hes too scary.
Right now its hard because 2/3 of his options lose their hitbox if a bullet grazes Torr's sack. We can fix it up and really give Vicious some real options as a viable zoning option.

Almost as bad as goro damn
My Shokan racism is justified.
 

Gustavness

The Tech Whisperer
FT is my favorite character, and was my main. however, the character has fundamental glitches that make him arguably the worst character in the game. Which is unusual, because if they were fixed he would be top 10.

I like him because he doesn't have any particular style, he is just reactive and can play any characters game. It's too bad :(
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Don't be so overdramatic. I gave you that avi, be grateful.
Haha true true! I apologize. Continue.

*Except for Boss Toss not losing hitbox. Kenshi, Jacqui, Shinnok etc, many of the projectiles lose it when hit. More in line with the game than anything else.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Haha true true! I apologize. Continue.

*Except for Boss Toss not losing hitbox. Kenshi, Jacqui, Shinnok etc, many of the projectiles lose it when hit. More in line with the game than anything else.
Its one of those things where the move is an actual person, not a projectile.
 

chrisofrays

Fish can hear you thinkin just before you sneeze
Buffs id like at the moment
B121 and close ferra toss no longer whiffing on women would be great. Equal Rights!
Lakey over head to move forward a bit more so you can 50/50 easier after a 1,1 or B121
All overheads to be slightly faster but not "press a button to 50/50" levels of fast.
Some way to spend meter for bigger combos with vicious.
A real D2
Whos Ruthless?

Not yet sure how I feel about the boss toss buff you suggested. Whilst it could help vs Pyromancer Tanya it might be a tougher match for other zoners with weaker pressure up close. Though this could be solved by buffing them :p
 

Bender

Product Manager. xBone tag: I3end3r.
No no, F/T must wait his turn. Haven't you seen the 4 Subzero Klone forums asking for buffs?

Lol, just kidding. I'm not sure he is bottom 5, he feels quite strong in the right hands, but I also don't know the MU that well. It's easy to overlook a character's flaws if you don't play them/ know their weaknesses.
 

Asodimazze

https://twitter.com/AlfioZacco
Ferra-Torr is absolutely unviable..... please NRS do something, he loses 7-3 against the whole roster:DOGE