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Fear of the Patching Style (AKA Why it Might Not Make Sense to Upplay)

qspec

Mortal
You're cherry picking, man.

Mileena can low profile something with a -30 move... yeah, great idea. You do roll with OS or as punish. Using it at neutral gets you blown the fuck up.

But to address them all:

Low damage: Agreed. I argue that low damage (off of abarre... his damage can get quite respectable on punish) is his only weakness.

Shit projectiles: In most cases... no. Spit and high sai are comparable. Force ball suits reptiles game plan amazingly. Low sai is easy to get in on. Air sai is a joke (you can, as Reptile, almost punish it at full screen if you run in).

Slow normals (that are safe, yes) that can't pressure with unless in the corner: You down played this one since Mileena has it worse. I'd argue that Reptile is sitting on the low side of average here. Certainly nothing to cry about just yet.

Slow pokes: Agreed, but this isn't a problem. He has a specific move for all of this spacing needs. F1, B3, B2, F4 all have use at neutral as pokes, but they are range dependant. That does require a burden of knowledge, but it doesn't make any of them bad.

Meter-dependant: You don't even want to go here with Mileena. Meter is the only way she's remotely scary due to ex-roll. She needs meter to be viable. Reptile just uses it well.

Builds meter very slowly: So does any character that relies on their normals more than their specials at neutral... I won't make any claim here as I simply don't know who has it worse.

No viable AA: Here's the second place Mileena wins out. Air sai and tele kick have fantastic use as an anti-air. Hell, it is arguably air sais only use.

No Viable air-game: This isn't so much a weakness as a statement of his play style and to a lesser extent the game as a whole. Yes he stays grounded. That does not automatically mean it is bad or good.
 

Yoaks

A spaceman
Reptile's 50/50s is as safe as Mileena's. Only with OSes. And 9f is not fast enough, that's exactly the gap between Raiden's blocked F12 and F1. In that situation, Mileena can at least low profile with roll and net a full combo, Reversal Elbow Dash gets him what? techable knockdown...yay...
Your b2 is +1. How is that unsafe? Reversal rolling is an option I'll give you that. But its just as shitty as alot of other characters.
 

Yoaks

A spaceman
You're cherry picking, man.

Mileena can low profile something with a -30 move... yeah, great idea. You do roll with OS or as punish. Using it at neutral gets you blown the fuck up.

But to address them all:

Low damage: Agreed. I argue that low damage (off of abarre... his damage can get quite respectable on punish) is his only weakness.

Shit projectiles: In most cases... no. Spit and high sai are comparable. Force ball suits reptiles game plan amazingly. Low sai is easy to get in on. Air sai is a joke (you can, as Reptile, almost punish it at full screen if you run in).

Slow normals (that are safe, yes) that can't pressure with unless in the corner: You down played this one since Mileena has it worse. I'd argue that Reptile is sitting on the low side of average here. Certainly nothing to cry about just yet.

Slow pokes: Agreed, but this isn't a problem. He has a specific move for all of this spacing needs. F1, B3, B2, F4 all have use at neutral as pokes, but they are range dependant. That does require a burden of knowledge, but it doesn't make any of them bad.

Meter-dependant: You don't even want to go here with Mileena. Meter is the only way she's remotely scary due to ex-roll. She needs meter to be viable. Reptile just uses it well.

Builds meter very slowly: So does any character that relies on their normals more than their specials at neutral... I won't make any claim here as I simply don't know who has it worse.

No viable AA: Here's the second place Mileena wins out. Air sai and tele kick have fantastic use as an anti-air. Hell, it is arguably air sais only use.

No Viable air-game: This isn't so much a weakness as a statement of his play style and to a lesser extent the game as a whole. Yes he stays grounded. That does not automatically mean it is bad or good.
You forgot her Roll as an aa.
 

Gesture Required Ahead

Get on that hook
Your b2 is +1. How is that unsafe? Reversal rolling is an option I'll give you that. But its just as shitty as alot of other characters.
I didn't say B2 was unsafe. But unless you're in the corner, it's not very dangerous. Rolling is far from "as shitty as other characters". What other move in this game has 8f of start-up, low-profiles everything, and leads to full combo?
 

Airvidal

"You play weird" It's called being unorthodox ;)
We'll see how it goes. It's not like we have the PREVIOUS patch, right?
What do you mean?
I don't think it's a fair trade at all.
thankfully kitana now has a quick mid to counteract d1/d3 spammers but..
b1 has terrible range compared to a quicker and more reliable 1, and b14 being -4 eliminates any means of viable pressure. believe it or not doing b14 while your opponent is waking up was useful as hell because of the + frames on b14. if they left the low alone I don't think you would see any complaints coming from the Kitana mains. in the grand scheme of things kitana really doesn't need nerfs to anything.

and yeah b12 grants kitana +1 on block but it pushes the opponent back way too far. so pressure is basically nonexistent. not to mention her normals are already slow.

they either need to make her normals way faster, or give her way more block advantage on certain moves and strings. you can't have a ridiculously slow character with no block advantage.
Don't forget she has those jump ins. I think her jump in 2 is about 5 frames a(so great). So, not nerfing B1, 4 would have given her complete pressure at all times, air and ground(not crazy good, but a bit too good).
Like I said before, unless you're in the corner, his 50/50s are not very scary. 30% for one bar with average corner carry as opposed to what everyone else can do.
Man, he has projectiles to death for mid screen(They hit mid!!!), 50/50s in the corner, he has a slide, invisibility, slowing time plus I don't know what else...so many tools. I think the problem is that people expect to keep playing MK9 but what's the point to pay to play the same game just with different graphics? Don't get how people keep comparing their character to the MK9 version lol New game, new moves, new strategies, new game style.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Maybe people are vocal because they realize the problems their characters have? The same problems the developers also recognize?

Like, did anyone think Blood God was good? Or Lasher?

Saying that the game designers can't recognize what turned out to be the weaker variations on their own doesn't make sense. The reason people are complaining is that they realize things that are probably obvious to many.
 
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Gesture Required Ahead

Get on that hook
Man, he has projectiles to death for mid screen(They hit mid!!!), 50/50s in the corner, he has a slide, invisibility, slowing time plus I don't know what else...so many tools. I think the problem is that people expect to keep playing MK9 but what's the point to pay to play the same game just with different graphics? Don't get how people keep comparing their character to the MK9 version lol New game, new moves, new strategies, new game style.
Bruh, have you ever even hovered your cursor over Reptile on the character select screen? Your post looks like you learned Reptile from watching his Kombat Kast pre-release.

All his projectiles have a million frames of recovery besides EX Slowball, all forceballs are easily low-profiled unlike most mid-hitting projectiles in this game, Invis and Basilisk AREN'T EVEN ON THE SAME VARIATION, 50/50 in the corner is indeed deadly but have fun trying to get there.
 

Airvidal

"You play weird" It's called being unorthodox ;)
Bruh, have you ever even hovered your cursor over Reptile on the character select screen? Your post looks like you learned Reptile from watching his Kombat Kast pre-release.

All his projectiles have a million frames of recovery besides EX Slowball, all forceballs are easily low-profiled unlike most mid-hitting projectiles in this game, Invis and Basilisk AREN'T EVEN ON THE SAME VARIATION, 50/50 in the corner is indeed deadly but have fun trying to get there.
Come on bro, I know they're not in the same variation, I was just throwing all his abilities out. And yes, I picked him yesterday just as a dummy and was testing some stuff with his wake ups/reversals, and I finally realized why some people are taking him as being really good in the game. And 'cause of that, it doesn't surprise me he didn't get any buffs. Just his overhead/low options alone are enough. Not to mention the rest.
 

Gesture Required Ahead

Get on that hook
Come on bro, I know they're not in the same variation, I was just throwing all his abilities out. And yes, I picked him yesterday just as a dummy and was testing some stuff with his wake ups/reversals, and I finally realized why some people are taking him as being really good in the game. And 'cause of that, it doesn't surprise me he didn't get any buffs. Just his overhead/low options alone are enough. Not to mention the rest.
Overhead and Low options are enough, you say? Then shit I guess 90% of the cast is a top tier contender because they have some form of Overhead and Low.

I guarantee you that you will need to look into Reptile a bit more than using him "just as a dummy" to know where his strengths and weaknesses lie.
 

Airvidal

"You play weird" It's called being unorthodox ;)
Overhead and Low options are enough, you say? Then shit I guess 90% of the cast is a top tier contender because they have some form of Overhead and Low.

I guarantee you that you will need to look into Reptile a bit more than using him "just as a dummy" to know where his strengths and weaknesses lie.
I mean, I say it 'cause of his start ups on them. Not all characters have a 11 frame overhead. But you know what, you're right, I need to actually use him to give you a perfect estimation, you can count me as one of your fellow reptile club members from now on, I'm maining him.(Yesterday he left me intrigued anyway lol)
 

qspec

Mortal
I didn't say B2 was unsafe. But unless you're in the corner, it's not very dangerous. Rolling is far from "as shitty as other characters". What other move in this game has 8f of start-up, low-profiles everything, and leads to full combo?
B2 leads into HKD, confirmable, at mid screen. Low damage (unless you want to spend meter), sure... but the value of HKD is fucking massive.

And his projectile are fine. Yeah, they have recovery (most projectiles do in this game as MKX is borderline hostile to projectiles), but spit hangs with plenty of full screen projectiles and forceballs are amazing for when you find a gap or get a knock down. Forceball is a moving wall that slowly shrinks the screen as you move in on them. It's fantastic!
 

RNLDRGN

RONALD ROGAN
This community frowns upon the "casuals" that cry buff or nerf and tells them to level up and their cries/opinions are quietly left for dead but the "pros" get props for the same shit and get backed by the community and the cries get pushed far enough to be heard by NRS.
This x 1000. While the nerfs/buffs the "pros" cry for may be a little more legitimate than some online scrub, it still boils down to people crying for nerfs/buffs. And seeing that these pro players do this encourages scrubs to do it. Seeing scrubs whine pisses everyone off and pushes ppl away from the community and label the NRS players as whiney scrubs. It's like this community has blinders on it and becomes everything it hates sometimes.

Now I'm not saying that some characters don't need buffs or don't need nerfs or that people don't raise good concerns. All I'm saying is MAYBE nrs could spend an extra 4-6 weeks testing the game (internally and with "pros" alike) and work out some of the stuff done in these patches before release. Then there wouldn't be a precedent that "shit, if I whine enough... maybe my character will get xyz"

All this doesn't mean anything in the end though. The game is mad fun and ppl are asking for things because they enjoy the game and want to keep enjoying it. So far the patches have been relatively fair, but still oddly frequent. It's like NRS is beta testing on the public...
 

IrishMantis

Most humble shit talker ever!!!
You are all saying it as a bad thing I'm thankful NRS listens to our opinions

Not to be a kiss ass but I'm sure Paulo and his team are not stupid and just buffing and nerfing because we say so they clearly see that Kenshi and others needed them buffs.

Some people are acting as if we made a buff Scorpion thread everyday then he would get buffed? Lol I highly doubt that
 

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
But you're basucally free to jump right now? Are you dashing or run canceling?
I haven't done much playing today, I have two major exams starting 9:30 in the morning and it's 20:15, and I have several pages to read and remember for both of those exams yet so I only logged on to look at Tanya's frame data for a bit. She's balanced so far, the mobility comes at a price.
Anyway, NJP seems to either work or not work depending on connection, but mostly not work because it's only 2015, why would games be playable online yknow.