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Question - Ancestral How to improve Kung Jin Ancestral popularity?

Tore

Tore

Noob
Generally speaking the Ancestral variation is not that bad, and gives a lot of fun.
However everybody knows that Bojutsu is the most effective, and consequently almost everyone choose to play with him.

In my opinion, a character like him, designed on a thief concept, should be more characterized and common in its bow and arrows version, than in its "baseball bat" version.

Don't get me wrong, I don't care to make Ancestral the main Kung Jin variation, I'd just like to make it an equally interesting option.

If you agree with me, what changes would you make in a kind of
personal patch?
I have some ideas, but before I'd like to know your opinions :)
 
SoundsLikePAUSE

SoundsLikePAUSE

Neptune's Beard!!!
Chris G has been making Ancestral look super hype. And viable. Also, seen good things with his Shaolin variation. I don't think either of those variations need much change but getting rid of the timer on arrows would help imo. Kung Jin is good all around but unfortunately, winning is all that matters to some so we're stuck watching bo-jitsu until it's further nerfed.
 
zaf

zaf

professor
The option that he has in bojutsu with MB staff spin is just too strong right now.
An armored launcher that isn't in other variations makes Bojutsu very appealing.
 
Skylight1

Skylight1

Warrior
Shaolin should really be the only variation that's okay to play with on Kung Jin. Anyone who stills plays Bojutsu is doing it at their own detriment...
 
Skylight1

Skylight1

Warrior
zaf said:
Can you elaborate on this ?
Click to expand...
*This may sound fanboyish but here goes...* Pig of the Hut even stated that Ancestral and Shaolin were better variations than Bojutsu. Just only going off of what an established player stated in a stream interview.
 
Tore

Tore

Noob
Killusion said:
Get rid of timed arrows, change to 1 stun arrow, 2 meter steal arrows and 3 fire arrows.
Honestly the variation seems cool, but I'm not feeling timed arrows at all.
Click to expand...
I like that, but maybe is not enough to compensate tha gap between Ancestral and Bojutsu

In my opinion Ancestral should be one of the best zoning specialist in the game.
So the improvements I'd like are all about zoning.
Something like:

1) Ability to hold and cancel an arrow shoot while loading.

2) Ability to meter burn while shooting arrows.
Meter burning allows to quickly shoot another arrow in the same direction.
(With a full meter he could shoot four arrows in a row)

3) Actually vampiric arrows are useless.
They could drain 1 meter in 4-5 seconds per hit (not cumulative: the next hitting arrow just reset the timer).

and stuff like that...
 
ZigZag

ZigZag

That Welsh Guy
Yeah i've been practicing it and it's got huge 50/50 potential aswell as zoning potential, problem is there's not much uniqueness in his up and close game in terms of damage except resetting into that 50/50 game which if you get it all down you've got a free round because the opponent can't do shit if he's constantly guessing wrong and being restunned, however if he guesses right really it shuts that whole tech down and in that circumstance it would have been better to be playing bojitsu because your 20%ish combo that was meant to reset into another got blocked and in Bojitsu you could have had like 30-38% easily from the same starter, so it's kind of high risk high reward in that regard but when it pays off boy does it pay off.

Otherwise the enhanced zoning is pretty nice but once again it's not invincible and I think Bojitsu zones again alot of the cast pretty nicely so maybe if you took away timed arrows this would help change my thinking in terms of how viable it is because if I get my stun up but squander my time with it i've lost it, in the Ft10 I played just now using this variation I was mid combo and it ran out just as I fired it so I ended up with no reset opportunity or extended combo.
It's definitely cool but it is pretty much just Green Arrow which all in all wasn't that strong, it's nice to hear Chris G is repping this variation well because it reminds me of the hype shit he did with GA no one else did that much.
 
ZigZag

ZigZag

That Welsh Guy
Skylight1 said:
*This may sound fanboyish but here goes...* Pig of the Hut even stated that Ancestral and Shaolin were better variations than Bojutsu. Just only going off of what an established player stated in a stream interview.
Click to expand...
Not going to lie, Pig is pretty full of it. he's established and great don't get me wrong... but since MKX came out he's really exaggerated alot of his opinions, like the game's hardly been out when he said alot of what he had to say, just because he is a good player doesn't mean he can call things on the spot, the "it's too early" rule applies to everyone not just lesser established players bro, he might be right in some way but I wouldn't take his word as the gospel is all i'm saying :)
 
SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Skylight1 said:
*This may sound fanboyish but here goes...* Pig of the Hut even stated that Ancestral and Shaolin were better variations than Bojutsu. Just only going off of what an established player stated in a stream interview.
Click to expand...
If God Almighty floated down from the Heaven's to personally broadcast this statement I wouldn't believe it.
 
Skylight1

Skylight1

Warrior
MadPropz101 said:
Click to expand...
This isn't called for. You don't have to agree with my statement, but you don't have to insult me for it either. Just explain or tell me why you feel my comment was wrong at and I'll respectfully listen to you. This is after all a discussion thread, so discuss :).
 
Skylight1

Skylight1

Warrior
SaltShaker said:
No I remember it being around the forum for a couple of days after Pig said that.
Click to expand...
I only piggybacked off of what he said but I don't really agree with a lot of the things he says. At least, not so early on about Kenshi or other characters (Sub-Zero for example). I do see however, a lot of pros using different variations with Kung Jin though. But again, it's still early to decide which one is the best variation so early on though.
 
Harlequin969

Harlequin969

Always press buttons
Honestly 1) get rid of the timed arrows. That's just ridculous especially coming off the fun things we had from Green Arrow. 2) Do something about meter drain arrow that makes it seem worth it because it's lack luster. Like GA back in IGA could at least combo off of the electric arrow. They did damage but were just harder to combo off.

Vamp arrow here is cool feature but don't take enough meter. Like maybe make it steal more meter per hit or on EX steal meter and give it to KJ. That'd be interesting and kinda fun.

Another major change would be like maybe a new move. Replace cartwheel smash with another armored move that would also let KJ stock an arrow on EX. It won't combo and does decent damage but it's purpose is to get people off while setting up his zoning again.
 
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SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Skylight1 said:
I only piggybacked off of what he said but I don't really agree with a lot of the things he says. At least, not so early on about Kenshi or other characters (Sub-Zero for example). I do see however, a lot of pros using different variations with Kung Jin though. But again, it's still early to decide which one is the best variation so early on though.
Click to expand...
Yea people glorify top players a little too much here. They say things just as silly as xXxWarmongerScorpion89xXx at times.

I actually think Shaolin is the best. By a pretty good margin too. It's just that Bojutsu is by far the easiest so people gravitate to it.
 
Tore

Tore

Noob
Harlequin969 said:
Vamp arrow here is cool feature but don't take enough meter. Like maybe make it steal meter per hit or on EX steal meter and give it to KJ. That'd be interesting and kinda fun.
Click to expand...
I also thought that a meter stealing could make vampiric arrows more useful, but there would be a problem of coherence with the character. Maybe it would make sense with a character like Quan Chi or Shinnok, but not so much with a shaolin monk arrow.
Maybe vampiric arrows could just drain more meter bar, or both meter and stamina bar.

Another major change would be like maybe a new move. Replace cartwheel smash with another armored move that would also let KJ stock an arrow on EX. It won't combo and does decent damage but it's purpose is to get people off while setting up his zoning again.
Click to expand...
The end of the cartwheel smash animation it's quite linkable with the start of the low arrow animation.
Since actually the low arrow has no EX version, it could be something like "cartwheel smash to low arrow", that is a overhead to low attack (safe with no armor, or unsafe with armor, for balancing reasons).

At this point the commands for the regular cartwheel smash could be used for some other zoning tool. I'd have some idea about it, but maybe I'm redesigning too much the character xD
 
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