General/Other - Erron Black Erron Black General Discussion Thread

[Pakman]

F1 into sandgust launches on hit, safe on block and must be neutral ducked?

Erron has so much dirt it's not even funny.



Oh who am I kidding, it is hilarious! Thank you based NRS!

 

[HeroesNZ]

For Gunslinger Errons, what do you guys think about F1xxSand Gust? It launches on hit if youre close, and it catches them if they block low(safe on block). They can neutral duck and make it whiff, but then you can mix in F132 or F13xxMoney Shot for continued pressure creating sort of a mix-up.

Yeah I started using it earlier today when I was messing around with Gunslinger. The horizontal hitbox on Sand Gust sucks ass so when I tried using it on Raiden he could just block low as if he was blocking F13 and it would whiff.

 

[Shaazzyam]

HeroesNFree post more videos of your erron so i can steal all your neutral game tech breh

this character p much has the hardest neutral in the game

 

[HeroesNZ]

HeroesNFree post more videos of your erron so i can steal your neutral game tech breh

Ugh I know you idolise me and everything but if you could like, stop playing my characters, that'd be great

 

[Shaazzyam]

Ugh I know you idolise me and everything but if you could like, stop playing my characters, that'd be great

this is an american website, so *idolize

look, fam, we all know that for that 1.5 years this game will be alive you will not be at a single offline tournament. that said, its prob best you just give me all the tech so you can at least live vicariously through me and sorta achieve something for once in your fg "career" once ya yung boi wins evo free af.

i mean, during injustice nobody knew who herosnz even was. like werent you some kind of S.T.A.R Labs warrior?

 

[HeroesNZ]

this is an american website, so *idolize

look, fam, we all know that for that 1.5 years this game will be alive you will not be at a single offline tournament. that said, its prob best you just give me all the tech so you can at least live vicariously through me and sorta achieve something for once in your fg "career" once ya yung boi wins evo free af.

i mean, during injustice nobody knew who herosnz even was. like werent you some kind of S.T.A.R Labs warrior?

Shaz... poor, confused Shaz. How are you gonna correct 1 word then proceed to make like 50 spelling errors lmao. Throughout Injustice you were known as that half-decent Martian player with the walmart connection.

I'll be attending offline tournaments after exams. Education comes first breh, not everyone can afford to be a full-time TYM troll lel.

The delusions are real though... Maybe if Evo was held with 10 frames of lag you could do something. Even then you'd only win because the other finalist had to dip out again.

 

[The Farmer]

For Gunslinger Errons, what do you guys think about F1xxSand Gust? It launches on hit if youre close, and it catches them if they block low(safe on block). They can neutral duck and make it whiff, but then you can mix in F132 or F13xxMoney Shot for continued pressure creating sort of a mix-up.

Go to the home or forums page and somewhere under your points theres a spot you can click on which lets you choose variations and factions. It should say "Mood Chooser"

I like this, I think ANY sort of mixup string, combo should be implemented with this variation for pressure since his options are a little more limited than the other variations. The more variable mixups we find the better. Lately I have also been implementing 11b3 money shot, followed with run cancel into 21122 for pressure. From there I go either ex low sand grenade, sand tackle, or sos3.

 

[Death]

this is an american website, so *idolize

look, fam, we all know that for that 1.5 years this game will be alive you will not be at a single offline tournament. that said, its prob best you just give me all the tech so you can at least live vicariously through me and sorta achieve something for once in your fg "career" once ya yung boi wins evo free af.

i mean, during injustice nobody knew who herosnz even was. like werent you some kind of S.T.A.R Labs warrior?

You ok?

 

[Shaazzyam]

You ok?

i'm just tired of all these injustice fuccboi mmh players thinking they're the cock's walk in my MK real footsies game.

 

[xGunShow]

This meter building is insanity lol

Credits to @SaJa for the Idea

@DarthArma
@Death
@wsj515
@HeroesNZ
@Pakman
@SonicFox5000

 

[HeroesNZ]

The scary part is that's actually practical. Condition them not to poke out with 21122 Swing Shot and they'll either start armouring through (which can be baited) or just take all that chip while we build hella meter

People are too busy complaining about his tick throws to notice that his pressure is way scarier than that lol

 

[SaJa]

Ex bombe for giving back stamina and gun cancel for making meter. So great Thx for the video gunshow

Is it possible to poke between gun cancel and 21122 ?

 

[Pakman]

I was theorizing meter building tactics early today as it happens. Glad to see someone beat me to it, props to you both saja and Gunshsow.

Now, is that set up essentially a block infinite?

If it is, please say no so it doesn't get patched out.

 

[DownfouralitY]

The scary part is that's actually practical. Condition them not to poke out with 21122 Swing Shot and they'll either start armouring through (which can be baited) or just take all that chip while we build hella meter

People are too busy complaining about his tick throws to notice that his pressure is way scarier than that lol

this. Erron has so much good shit, he's probably gonna get nerfed though due to all the complaining

 

[HeroesNZ]

Nah 21122 Gun Cancel is negative on block. The mindgame comes in because 21122 Swing Shot & EX Sand Grenade can only be armoured through.

So if the opponent's trying to poke after 21122 thinking you're gonna Gun Cancel, and you use Swing Shot/EX Sand Grenade then they're launched for a full combo.

If they're trying to armour on reaction to the Gun Cancel you can cancel into block and punish.

 

[DarthArma]

This meter building is insanity lol

Credits to @SaJa for the Idea

@DarthArma
@Death
@wsj515
@HeroesNZ
@Pakman
@SonicFox5000

Oh yeah, stripper outfit

 

[Shaazzyam]

pretty sure they can armor the 2 since its a high, after san grenade plus frames

 

[StevoSuprem0]

Damn. Sand tackle is going down to -2 on hit. That's gonna be a problem. Massively detrimental to his oki game in Marksman and Gunslinger, meanwhile Outlaw can just stick to the Tarkatan stab for plenty of advantage on hit... Seems like a very ill-informed adjustment to me since Marksman and Gunslinger are already the underutilized variations...

 

[carrion4worm]

outlaw sand toss got jacked too. never used it without hit-confirm anyway, but that's 3 patches and 3 nerfs......enough, NRS!!!

 

[A sad sad panda]

I'm not too educated on the topics of frame data.

Can anyone elaborate on how the changes to made to sand tackle will affect gameplay? Sorry in advance for my ignorance lol.

 

[GrimJack]

I'm not too educated on the topics of frame data.

Can anyone elaborate on how the changes to made to sand tackle will affect gameplay? Sorry in advance for my ignorance lol.

How much a move is plus or minus is determine by how many frames there are that the opponent cannot move or push a button while you are able to do anything. For example, previously tackle is +20 on hit, you now have 20 frames to do whatever you want when the opponent still in knock down state

 

[GrimJack]

Can somebody check if the ex version of the tackle still plus on hit for me pls

 

[GroovyMango]

So, while it does suck that tackle is now -2 on hit, that does really suck I agree, however it's not the end of the world. Caltrops is always an option to keep that oki game we have after a combo, doing an ex throw in the corner for the standing reset is good too. This pretty much means we use tackle for when we want the damage/kill and are okay with playing neutral after it. Also don't forget Gunslinger is about zoning, which is why it's so tough to use, and marksman is about space control and safe pressure with gun cancels, where as outlaw is the straight rushdown one. That's why stab didn't get it's advantage changed. Nerfs are never fun, but at least our nerfs are fair. He still has damage, he still has mixup, he just has to sacrifice one to get the other. In the end he's still an amazing character.

 

[wsj515]

So, while it does suck that tackle is now -2 on hit, that does really suck I agree, however it's not the end of the world. Caltrops is always an option to keep that oki game we have after a combo, doing an ex throw in the corner for the standing reset is good too. This pretty much means we use tackle for when we want the damage/kill and are okay with playing neutral after it. Also don't forget Gunslinger is about zoning, which is why it's so tough to use, and marksman is about space control and safe pressure with gun cancels, where as outlaw is the straight rushdown one. That's why stab didn't get it's advantage changed. Nerfs are never fun, but at least our nerfs are fair. He still has damage, he still has mixup, he just has to sacrifice one to get the other. In the end he's still an amazing character.

Just seems like a knee jerk nerf to me, one that wasn't really thought out but they pushed out anyway because people were complaining about it. People were kicking and screaming that they had no way of dealing with the tick throws, but if anyone's mom spent 5 minutes in practice mode they could have figured out plenty of ways to completely blow it up. I can understand them nerfing the advantage, but to make it negative on hit? Just doesn't make sense.

Then there's the sand toss nerf, which was already full combo punishable, so it seems to me that this balance was made to accommodate their shit netcode so people can more easily punish it online.

I'm definitely salty about these changes, not so much about the changes themselves but from my own perceived idea on why they implemented them and the lack of thought put into them, so I could be completely full of shit.

 

[GroovyMango]

Just seems like a knee jerk nerf to me, one that wasn't really thought out but they pushed out anyway because people were complaining about it. People were kicking and screaming that they had no way of dealing with the tick throws, but if anyone's mom spent 5 minutes in practice mode they could have figured out plenty of ways to completely blow it up. I can understand them nerfing the advantage, but to make it negative on hit? Just doesn't make sense.

Then there's the sand toss nerf, which was already full combo punishable, so it seems to me that this balance was made to accommodate their shit netcode so people can more easily punish it online.

I'm definitely salty about these changes, not so much about the changes themselves but from my own perceived idea on why they implemented them and the lack of thought put into them, so I could be completely full of shit.

The problem with the grab is that 21122 was a huge mixup in and of itself. 2 different gra points, which the only way to avoid was to let go of block, but if they didn't grab then you just got hit since there was no gap to armor through. If he did grab and it worked, congrats, run up and do it again. Then he could do a special like ex sand ball in it's place so if they get hit, full combo, and if they blocked, the blender continued. Also during this whole time you're building a good amount of meter. By making it negative, he's already far enough away where it won't be punishable, and we have no time to get a set up, but 2 frames doesn't mean the opponent does either. Maybe 0 would have been etter, and maybe they'll change it to that later, but I think this change is a smart way to control some of our options WITHOUT taking any away.

IDK about the sand throw nerf, it does seem pointless but the combos to it weren't optimal anyways.