General/Other - Erron Black Erron Black General Discussion Thread

[HeroesNZ]

Can anyone tell me is there any significant changes for Outlaw. I play on XB1 and haven't got the patch yet. thank you

B32U1 is now -14 on block, and they increased the recovery of it so landing the NJP is a little harder.

F122 is now -12 on block. Characters with fast reversals or quick normals can punish it everywhere (Mileena w/Roll, Erron w/ standing 2).

Basically his 50/50s are less safe without meter in Outlaw.

 

[GrimJack]

B32U1 is now -14 on block, and they increased the recovery of it so landing the NJP is a little harder.

F122 is now -12 on block. Characters with fast reversals or quick normals can punish it everywhere (Mileena w/Roll, Erron w/ standing 2).

Basically his 50/50s are less safe without meter in Outlaw.

what about f12, b33 and f13

 

[HeroesNZ]

what about f12, b33 and f13

I'm pretty sure they're all unchanged

 

[Inception]

I am going to pick up Erron Black (outlaw) if you can point me in the direction of his bnb's and useful guides it would be appreciated. I noticed that from combos online I have seen his damage seems very low is that just a isolated case or is that how it really is.

 

[Poto2222]

So I just picked up Marksman EB and I'm looking for some combos with this variation. The OP in the combo thread only lists combos for Outlaw and Gunslinger (which really confuses me ), and going through pages and pages of mostly Outlaw combos isn't helping. If any kind soul could point me to the right direction, I'd be hella thankful!

 

[KNX]

So I just picked up Marksman EB and I'm looking for some combos with this variation. The OP in the combo thread only lists combos for Outlaw and Gunslinger (which really confuses me ), and going through pages and pages of mostly Outlaw combos isn't helping. If any kind soul could point me to the right direction, I'd be hella thankful!

Most important thing about Erron Black in Marksman variation are his gun cancels as they'll get you max damage and allow you to use safer combo starters.

Gun Cancel (GC) = String xx df1~f,f+blk - If done correctly, he should cancel the startup of the df1 animation into a run. In a combo or a blockstring you immediately cancel the run into a normal.

Sorry if you knew that already, but it's worth breaking down just in case.

These are the basic combos I use (I don't use a lot as it's the oki and setups I'm more focused on), not everything but it should help you get started, there'll be more optimised stuff in and around the combo thread, you just gotta sift through a lot of it.

Overhead starters:
f13 xx GC, 2112 xx db2, f12 xx dbf2
f13 xx GC, 2112 xx EX db2, run, f24, 211 xx dbf2
f13 xx GC, 2112 xx db2, b2 xx db2, 21122 xx dbf2 (corner)
f13 xx GC, 2112 xx EX db2, b33 xx db2, 21122 xx dbf2 (corner)

Low starters:
All low starter combos are the exact same as above, only open with the low strings, b33 or b32, instead of the overhead string.

Mid/High starters:
2112 xx db2 (these lead into any enders listed above)
112, run, f12 xx dbf2
112, b2 xx db2, 21122 xx dbf2 (corner)
11b3 xx EX bf3, njp, f24, 211 xx dbf2
11b3 xx EX bf3, njp, b2 xx db2, 21122 xx dbf2 (corner)
f3 xx EX bf3, njp, f24, 211 xx dbf2
f3 xx EX bf3, njp, b2 xx db2, 21122 xx dbf2 (corner)

For any combo ending in 211 or 21122 into dbf2 you can replace with 21122 xx db3 (Caltrops). You throw the Caltrops onto the opponent as they fall meaning they'll have to get up into the forced damage. This allows you to play some nice mind games. You can also choose to throw the Caltrops in front of them as a way of either forcing the opp to jump or stay behind them.

Also any combo that ends in 211 xx dbf2, you can do the full string 21122 xx dbf2 when in the corner for extra damage.

 

[Poto2222]

Most important thing about Erron Black in Marksman variation are his gun cancels as they'll get you max damage and allow you to use safer combo starters.

Gun Cancel (GC) = String xx df1~f,f+blk - If done correctly, he should cancel the startup of the df1 animation into a run. In a combo or a blockstring you immediately cancel the run into a normal.

Sorry if you knew that already, but it's worth breaking down just in case.

These are the basic combos I use (I don't use a lot as it's the oki and setups I'm more focused on), not everything but it should help you get started, there'll be more optimised stuff in and around the combo thread, you just gotta sift through a lot of it.

Overhead starters:
f13 xx GC, 2112 xx db2, f12 xx dbf2
f13 xx GC, 2112 xx EX db2, run, f24, 211 xx dbf2
f13 xx GC, 2112 xx db2, b2 xx db2, 21122 xx dbf2 (corner)
f13 xx GC, 2112 xx EX db2, b33 xx db2, 21122 xx dbf2 (corner)

Low starters:
All low starter combos are the exact same as above, only open with the low strings, b33 or b32, instead of the overhead string.

Mid/High starters:
2112 xx db2 (these lead into any enders listed above)
112, run, f12 xx dbf2
112, b2 xx db2, 21122 xx dbf2 (corner)
11b3 xx EX bf3, njp, f24, 211 xx dbf2
11b3 xx EX bf3, njp, b2 xx db2, 21122 xx dbf2 (corner)
f3 xx EX bf3, njp, f24, 211 xx dbf2
f3 xx EX bf3, njp, b2 xx db2, 21122 xx dbf2 (corner)

For any combo ending in 211 or 21122 into dbf2 you can replace with 21122 xx db3 (Caltrops). You throw the Caltrops onto the opponent as they fall meaning they'll have to get up into the forced damage. This allows you to play some nice mind games. You can also choose to throw the Caltrops in front of them as a way of either forcing the opp to jump or stay behind them.

Also any combo that ends in 211 xx dbf2, you can do the full string 21122 xx dbf2 when in the corner for extra damage.

Holy shit man, excellent work! OMG, that was awesome.
Thanks a lot!

Yeah, I'm aware of the gun cancels, and I already got them down consistently (blocking Mileena's Reversal Roll after F13xxGC and all), I just had no idea what to do after launching my opponent.

That post should be included in the OP of the combo thread, man. Again, fantastic work!

 

[Taxman]

I need some help guys, I'm on a huge losing streak and I'm about to rage. I can't get any combos going, the best I can do is F13 or sometimes land a 21122 and rarely a 21122xxdbf2. I just can't get anything to come together online and it's extremely frstrating, I ca't keep any pressue because I just get hit as soon as I get close or if I have a opportunity to punish I somehow get hit first I don't get it if it's just a lag thing but it's all too sluggish.

 

[Sublime]

Any1 else hop on board bout Erron Gunslinger variation. when u do gun stance it would be nice if u could dash cancel out of it? or by pressing square it goes off from stance faster

 

[wsj515]

Most important thing about Erron Black in Marksman variation are his gun cancels as they'll get you max damage and allow you to use safer combo starters.

Gun Cancel (GC) = String xx df1~f,f+blk - If done correctly, he should cancel the startup of the df1 animation into a run. In a combo or a blockstring you immediately cancel the run into a normal.

Sorry if you knew that already, but it's worth breaking down just in case.

These are the basic combos I use (I don't use a lot as it's the oki and setups I'm more focused on), not everything but it should help you get started, there'll be more optimised stuff in and around the combo thread, you just gotta sift through a lot of it.

Overhead starters:
f13 xx GC, 2112 xx db2, f12 xx dbf2
f13 xx GC, 2112 xx EX db2, run, f24, 211 xx dbf2
f13 xx GC, 2112 xx db2, b2 xx db2, 21122 xx dbf2 (corner)
f13 xx GC, 2112 xx EX db2, b33 xx db2, 21122 xx dbf2 (corner)

Low starters:
All low starter combos are the exact same as above, only open with the low strings, b33 or b32, instead of the overhead string.

Mid/High starters:
2112 xx db2 (these lead into any enders listed above)
112, run, f12 xx dbf2
112, b2 xx db2, 21122 xx dbf2 (corner)
11b3 xx EX bf3, njp, f24, 211 xx dbf2
11b3 xx EX bf3, njp, b2 xx db2, 21122 xx dbf2 (corner)
f3 xx EX bf3, njp, f24, 211 xx dbf2
f3 xx EX bf3, njp, b2 xx db2, 21122 xx dbf2 (corner)

For any combo ending in 211 or 21122 into dbf2 you can replace with 21122 xx db3 (Caltrops). You throw the Caltrops onto the opponent as they fall meaning they'll have to get up into the forced damage. This allows you to play some nice mind games. You can also choose to throw the Caltrops in front of them as a way of either forcing the opp to jump or stay behind them.

Also any combo that ends in 211 xx dbf2, you can do the full string 21122 xx dbf2 when in the corner for extra damage.

Its worth including in this his non-GC stuff. Sometimes if you do consecutive block strings with gun cancels, you no longer have stamina for a GC or run mid combo, so you have to do something like:

f13xxdb2, f12xxdbf2
b32/b33xxdb2, f12xxdbf2
21122xxdb2, 21122xxdbf2
21122xxEXbf3, njp, f24 211xxdbf2 - This is amazing when used as a blockstring

 

[A New Angel Is Advent]

Anyone else finding new timing for B32U1 to njP to be needlessly irritating?

 

[Northern Slasher]

Does EB feel much weaker after this patch?

 

[Northern Slasher]

Anyone else finding new timing for B32U1 to njP to be needlessly irritating?

Yes. You're better off forgetting about it. For how little damage it adds plus the retarded timing, just go with something else other than NJP.

 

[lionheart21]

Does EB feel much weaker after this patch?

Honestly, aside from the NJP nerf, I don't see much of a difference. And the NJP nerf is easily dealt with by just doing a Jump-in punch in its place.

 

[Lone]

Honestly, aside from the NJP nerf, I don't see much of a difference. And the NJP nerf is easily dealt with by just doing a Jump-in punch in its place.

He didn't specify but maybe he is referring to the frame changes on his 50/50s? That's assuming he plays a variation other than Marksman.

 

[lionheart21]

He didn't specify but maybe he is referring to the frame changes on his 50/50s? That's assuming he plays a variation other than Marksman.

His 50/50s are universal, though.

 

[Lone]

True but in Marksman you can cancel them rather then resorting to meter usage in Outlaw that's what I was implying.

 

[TheIrishFGCguy]

Couple questions for Erron players...

1. Is Gunslinger viable? I keep hearing bad things, but standoff stance looks too cool to pass up and he has that beautiful hat.
2. Does he require meter to get damage? I could be wrong because I've barely touched on him but he seems quite meter reliant (in Gunslinger at least).

 

[HeroesNZ]

Couple questions for Erron players...

1. Is Gunslinger viable? I keep hearing bad things, but standoff stance looks too cool to pass up and he has that beautiful hat.
2. Does he require meter to get damage? I could be wrong because I've barely touched on him but he seems quite meter reliant (in Gunslinger at least).

In gunslinger he requires meter to get damage, but not in the other two.

Gunslinger can be pretty useful in some MUs like Grandmaster Sub because SOS3 breaks the clone and forces Sub to block.

 

[Rude]

What is the cancel advantage of Rifle Cancels?

I've only taken a brief look at the character but Marksman interests me.

It seems to me that you have a pretty powerful pressure system off the rifle cancels.

You could do 21122 xx rifle cancel, run into the 50/50, or into 21122 again, or if they block your 50/50, could you cancel into rifle and continue the pressure?

It seems to me that, between the rifle cancel, letting the shot go if you think they'll try to poke, canceling into mb low sand, and the command grab that you have some really good conditioning tools that would allow you to get the rifle uppercut out more safely since it's interruptable.

The mb version of the rifle launcher says +9, is that accurate?

Now, to be clear: I'm not claiming to know the character better than mains of Marksman, or say that I've found new tech, or tell anyone how to play their main. I'm more just sharing my initial thoughts after taking the character in the lab and looking at his kit.

Somthing else i was thinking about: what is the viability of rifle canceling from mid/full screen, starting a run, and canceling that run into the walk back three-shot special, or calthrops, or low sand?

I feel like this variation could be a meter building/pressure powerhouse so I'd like to know more.

Again, I'm only sharing my first impressions and am in no way claiming superior knowledge or trying to blow anyone up.

 

[minilabsforever]

Doesn't seem like anyone else was going to do it so I thought I might as well.

Don't worry the Forum monsters will be all over this character now.

 

[HeroesNZ]

What is the cancel advantage of Rifle Cancels?

I've only taken a brief look at the character but Marksman interests me.

It seems to me that you have a pretty powerful pressure system off the rifle cancels.

You could do 21122 xx rifle cancel, run into the 50/50, or into 21122 again, or if they block your 50/50, could you cancel into rifle and continue the pressure?

It seems to me that, between the rifle cancel, letting the shot go if you think they'll try to poke, canceling into mb low sand, and the command grab that you have some really good conditioning tools that would allow you to get the rifle uppercut out more safely since it's interruptable.

The mb version of the rifle launcher says +9, is that accurate?

Now, to be clear: I'm not claiming to know the character better than mains of Marksman, or say that I've found new tech, or tell anyone how to play their main. I'm more just sharing my initial thoughts after taking the character in the lab and looking at his kit.

Somthing else i was thinking about: what is the viability of rifle canceling from mid/full screen, starting a run, and canceling that run into the walk back three-shot special, or calthrops, or low sand?

I feel like this variation could be a meter building/pressure powerhouse so I'd like to know more.

Again, I'm only sharing my first impressions and am in no way claiming superior knowledge or trying to blow anyone up.

It's all good man, feel free to share your thoughts.

Rifle cancels generally vary from -5 to like -2 on block - although standing 4 Rifle Cancel is a little plus. It's not like Scorpion's where he's plus off of nearly everything unfortunately.

MB Swing Shot doesn't come out on block.

It's pretty viable. People like to NJP a lot in this game so you can cancel a run in and anti-air them with Rifle Shot. Unload can catch people who get a little over-zealous with their jump ins. F13 xx EX Unload can also catch people who are poking too much because he walks back a little, making the poke whiff.

Yeah his pressure is great. His 21122 is a great pressure string because it can tick throw in 3 places and builds a lot of meter. 11 is also +2 on block, can tick throw and guarantees an instant JP2 on hit which guarantees another 21122/11. F1/B3 after an instant JP2 can be armoured through on read but it's still a great option.

 

[RadicalFuzz]

Fullscreen Gun & Run into Unload seems alright, but if you think they're gonna try to hit you as you run in you can just stop the run and whiff punish with f13, 21122, f24, even f4, for more damage. As for the sand grenade, you can do it but I don't see a huge reason to over unload unless you're trying to condition them to jump at you when you run. Caltrops could be interesting, but why not just throw caltrops from full screen and start shooting? It stops runs so you can sand grenade, shoot, basically do what you want for about 6 seconds. You're most likely going to win the zoning trades because his rifle is 10% and a knockdown, so you are forcing them to approach you without the option to run. Unless they have a teleport.

 

[Bombardier777]

How did you guys got that character variation amd picture thing under your avatars ? I'd like one too

 

[InFlames]

For Gunslinger Errons, what do you guys think about F1xxSand Gust? It launches on hit if youre close, and it catches them if they block low(safe on block). They can neutral duck and make it whiff, but then you can mix in F132 or F13xxMoney Shot for continued pressure creating sort of a mix-up.

How did you guys got that character variation amd picture thing under your avatars ? I'd like one too

Go to the home or forums page and somewhere under your points theres a spot you can click on which lets you choose variations and factions. It should say "Mood Chooser"