What are your serious opinions about Mortal Kombat X?

[GrandMasterson]

I can't believe so many people are saying MK9 was this incredible chess-like footsies battle of the ages. I loved MK9 but you people are smoking something. Sonya, Kabal, Kenshi, Cyrax, Freddy, Lao, these are all top characters who made playing footsies a death sentence and had numerous mix-ups like many MKX characters do now. The wake-up game in MK9 was dumb too which was basically LOL INVINCIBLE EVERYTHING ON WAKE UP NO METER. No trades? Input bug? Meter drain glitch? The Grand Canyon-sized difference between the viable tier and hopeless tier?

You guys need to stop holding MK9 under this godray of metagame perfection because it's just.. wrong. MKX is way better than MK9.

 

[KingHippo]

Yes there is a neutral game where players have to approach each other, but in MKX many times that neutral game prioritzes things like Raiden running up into f12b2, Cassie running up into b12, D'Vorah just connecting with f22 from range or asking you to hold f112 into 50/50., Sonya divekicking in with scant recovery, etc.

I'm not sure, then, what the issue seems to be. Choosing to run in is a decision in the mid range ("footsies") and then deciding what to do after the attack is possibly blocked is yet another part of that game. The tools are probably a little overbearing, maybe have too much range for what they do, but it's not like Cassie or Raiden get in, become insanely + on block and immediately make you guess high/low like, say, a Martian Manhunter type. If you are to take someone to the corner, then you have to make a read in the back and forth, and therefore we have a neutral game. How is this diminished in any way?

Now if you simply don't like that style, then that's fine; we're all human and we like what we like, but I'm not sure what it is you're stating. It sounds like you're not trying to say people who are fraudulent will win in this game, but then state things like the above quote where you imply that the stuff is braindead and takes no skill. What's your argument?

 

[Zoidberg747]

Last I checked whiffing moves with low recovery(like Sonya's divekick) is an essential part of footsies in most games, as you are baiting out a reaction.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Now if you simply don't like that style, then that's fine; we're all human and we like what we like, but I'm not sure what it is you're stating. It sounds like you're not trying to say people who are fraudulent will win in this game, but then state things like the above quote where you imply that the stuff is braindead and takes no skill. What's your argument?

Never at any point was I am implying that this game takes no skill -- I think you're now greatly exaggerating what was said. Good players will still win as they always have. However, that doesn't change the fact that the 50/50 and auto-ranged tools are overwhelmingly strong, to the point that they diminish other fundamentals that have helped make the gameplay styles more balanced/varied in past games.

That doesn't prevent people from enjoying the game (I'm still having fun playing it), but we shouldn't be acting like it's not the case or is simply early gameplay.

Here's a parallel: some people liked Injustice when interactibles did twice as much damage and anti-airs were considerably weaker. However, when those concerns were pointed out early on and addressed, it became (at least to most) a better and more interesting game. Those changes helped other aspects of the gameplay to come forth. The argument had been made in early weeks pre-patch that people would just get around them, but instead people actually found more ways to apply them, coming up with new OTG and hard-to-escape interactible setups each week.

For everyone who said "the game is fine", there were also some people who voiced their concerns and the game became better for it. At the end of the day, not everyone will agree, but there shouldn't be anything wrong with being honest about what the gameplay boils down to be.

 

[M2Dave]

I hgear you, but I think you're reading too deeply into this -- it's not that footsies don't exist, as technically in any game where two characters can move back and forth with ranged normals it's possible to play footsies. Rather, it's that other tools are stronger to such a drastic degree that the importance of footsies is greatly diminished. Yes there is a neutral game where players have to approach each other, but in MKX many times that neutral game prioritzes things like Raiden running up into f12b2, Cassie running up into b12, D'Vorah just connecting with f22 from range or asking you to hold f112 into 50/50., Sonya divekicking in with scant recovery, etc.

Excellent post.

You can add Quan Chi players fishing for random b+2 xx EX rune at mid range to the list. Footsies? Yes. But at a very basic level because the risk/reward is vehemently in Quan Chi's favor. Why? Safe vortex.

By the way, I am not even suggesting that Quan Chi be normalized further. I use him myself.

 

[KingHippo]

However, that doesn't change the fact that the 50/50 and auto-ranged tools are overwhelmingly strong, to the point that they diminish other fundamentals that have been staples of play in past games.

I still don't know what this means. A STAPLE of Injustice was 50/50's into brutal oki, which this game still has. That staple seems to be intact here in MKX, but there is improved mobility and that wealth is shared moreso throughout the cast. It seems to me that this game is following Injustice's path, but improved some of the basic mechanics. There are probably a few things that are too auto-pilot, but I don't think there are anything comparable to strings to Trident Rush or Superman holding back with the threat of f23 into a mixup. It can always be improved, but I don't think the base version of this game is at all worse than the first two games. That's just looking with rose colored glasses.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

There are probably a few things that are too auto-pilot, but I don't think there are anything comparable to strings to Trident Rush or Superman holding back with the threat of f23 into a mixup.

The thing is, you're comparing a couple of characters' individual tools to an entire meta.

Yes, Superman's f23 pressure was insane; but there was nothing else like it in the entire game. That wasn't the meta of the game on the whole; it was Superman's meta. Yes, trident rush was also bananas, but it wasn't a staple of half the cast.

Wheras what we're talking about here with MKX isn't exlusive to any one particular character. What I'm describing could be applied to most of the entire top section of the cast. Yes oki was strong in IGAU, but footsies were equally as strong in many cases (save maybe for Batgirl's eventual domination) and that made characters like AM and Sinestro dangerous. Zoning tools helped make some other characters lethal, while Flash and Bane had smothering pressure once they were in. Earlier Black Adam didn't have the brutal oki mixup, but he had a strong keepaway game, which fit him into yet another archetype that made him different from the rest of the cast. And the Green Arrow that Chris G was winning early tournaments with had, again, a very noticeably different playstyle.

Even going out on a limb with Superman (who is probably the most extreme example) both a "zoning superman" (Theo) and a highly aggressive non-stop pressure superman (KDZ) ended up doing well early in the game.

Despite the narrative that the game was only 50/50s, there were a range of playstyles that made the strongest characters what they were. Whereas MKX in the same time period is trending towards more homogeneity rather than variety. There's a particular brand of aggressive, overwhelmingly offensive play with constant mixups that's very stong, and it's almost universal across the better characters in the game. Despite the differences between charcaters, the dominant playstyle seems to be pointing mainly in one direction. It's just how the game seems designed to be.

 

[Rathalos]

Most things have already been said.
I have been enjoying the game a lot, despite not being able to play it as much as I want. I think it's a much better game then MK9.

That said, I'm not shocked that some MK9 fans are indifferent and still prefer 9, they are very different games.
I don't know what to tell you guys though, you are going to have to move on at some point, 9 was an interesting game, but I really doubt NRS is ever going to revisit that style of gameplay again.

 

[DevilMaySpy]

This game is really fun. I'm already enjoying it more than Injustice and I enjoyed Injustice way more than MK 9. I have played more games online in MKX than I have during the entirety of Injustice because it's so addictive. I like the fast paced 50/50s and shenanigans. It keeps me on my toes and keeps things interesting.

 

[Slips]

This 'footsie' talk is funny. I think what people don't realize is that this non-footsie talk that was in Injustice is also in MKX but for the opposite reasons.

In Injustice, people couldn't figure out how to get in to play footsies because the walk speed was so bad. In MKX, people can't figure out how to keep opponent's out to play footsies because the run is so good.

I think whats happening in MKX is that the pace of the game is so fast that people aren't even realizing what's going on. The mobility is so good that people are just jumping around, throwing out strings and specials and just trying to land a hit into a combo to get control. So for a lot of people it's feeling random.

Footsies is played 3/4's of the screen away, and the people who can figure out how to stop the random run-ins, the random run jumps and the random run string will end up being the best players. Characters with good neutral jump attacks are doing this well. We'll see what happens in the future.

We're still figuring this game out people. Give it time. The mind games are there. Just keep playing.

 

[Jimmypotato]

MKX is awesome,

MK9 was a frustrating mess compaired to MKX

The ONLY thing I hated about Injustice and what turned me off, was the movement.

 

[juicepouch]

The thing is, you're comparing a couple of characters' individual tools to an entire meta.

Yes, Superman's f23 pressure was insane; but there was nothing else like it in the entire game. That wasn't the meta of the game on the whole; it was Superman's meta. Yes, trident rush was also bananas, but it wasn't a staple of half the cast.

Wheras what we're talking about here with MKX isn't exlusive to any one particular character. What I'm describing could be applied to most of the entire top section of the cast. Yes oki was strong in IGAU, but footsies were equally as strong in many cases (save maybe for Batgirl's eventual domination) and that made characters like AM and Sinestro dangerous. Zoning tools helped make some other characters lethal, while Flash and Bane had smothering pressure once they were in. Earlier Black Adam didn't have the brutal oki mixup, but he had a strong keepaway game, which fit him into yet another archetype that made him different from the rest of the cast. And the Green Arrow that Chris G was winning early tournaments with had, again, a very noticeably different playstyle.

Even going out on a limb with Superman (who is probably the most extreme example) both a "zoning superman" (Theo) and a highly aggressive non-stop pressure superman (KDZ) ended up doing well early in the game.

Despite the narrative that the game was only 50/50s, there were a range of playstyles that made the strongest characters what they were. Whereas MKX in the same time period is trending towards more homogeneity rather than variety. There's a particular brand of aggressive, overwhelmingly offensive play with constant mixups that's very stong, and it's almost universal across the better characters in the game.

I think the main buzzword is autopilot

was it more autopilot for sinestro to throw out b12 then converting shackles or cassie to throw out her b1 string into a 50/50? Superman f23 breath pressure vs quan fishing for b2 ex rune? GLs spamming b13 rockets or sonya divekicking all over, etc

you can claim that footsies have existed in igau since the beginning but if you played bane ares or shazam on release vs superman I'd like to see you play footsies with f23. Soon the banes of this game will get fleshed out and we'll see less of KJ just getting to smash buttons I think

I think early on we're just wading through all this garbage that'll eventually get fixed or we'll figure out which will create a more robust footsie game

Finally, tot he point of the OP:

I hate these autostring low overheads or overhead lows

What purpose do they serve but to blow you up the first time you fight a character and learn to block them?

 

[VOR]

I just want to add that most people aren't punishing a damn thing in this game. Punishing in this game comes down to jab strings or your fastest mid for the most part. So once people start getting better at punishing, I think there will be more respect and PPHHOOOOTTTSSSIIIEEEE.

 

[kabelfritz]

I don't know what being a 'Netherrealm Representative' means

lol thats a tym Thing and has nothing to do with nrs. you can also be an earthrealm or outworld representative. i fell for it too.

I honestly have no idea how reptile is supposed to be played. He feels weird to me.

the wierd thing is that he is a zoner who wants to move Forward

I seem to be reading a lot of "well MKX is just all 50/50s, MK9 was footsies".
....what is this even supposed to mean? When was there ever an arbitrary definition of "footsies" that fighting game designers are supposed to follow? I mean, I certainly wasn't an Injustice enthusiast (and you can bet your balls I will give every admin here a resounding bitchslap if they try to entertain the "Injustice can be our Marvel guise!" agenda again if Injustice 2 is a thing), but even the "Injustice has no footsies" propaganda was silly to me. I was no less impressed by DJT's work with GL than I was with his Cyrax when I watched Injustice majors.
Footsies are all about spacing awareness in given scenarios and going with what you think is the best tool to entertain accordingly. It's up to you, as a player, as a human, to figure out what they are. Fighting games won't do that for you by themselves.
Sorry you can't just get away with blagging advancing neutral on block mids and a bunch of chip damage as footsies anymore I guess.

this, thank you.
MKX footsies will develope when the game is further explored.

 

[Charybdis]

MKX is the best MK ever. By miles. In terms of gameplay, art direction, story, music, attention to detail, it's all fantastic.

The only things I find disappointing are the roster and the limited number of stages and they can be rectified, and the heavy emphasis on rushdown and 50/50s. However, it's clear that was the direction NRS wanted to explore in terms of the gameplay, so that's all there is to it really. It's like being disappointed Sub Zero wears blue. Oh and the online obviously. That's fucking bullshit.

It's wonderful to see the community develop selective memory already, only 3 games into NRS games. You have people in this thread arguing that MK9 was perfect, nobody complained about anything except the online. I mean that's just self delusion.

Also lol @Ninj calling REO an NRS shill for having the 'Netherrealm Representative' tag. Goes very well with his tradition of shit talking and shitting on NRS having done zero homework or research

 

[kabelfritz]

maybe 50/50 chars dominate the early days of mkx because they are easier to pick up?

 

[The Highlander]

I get that this is an opinion thread but damn y'all are hella salty. It's kind of a downer that you absolute nobodies that hyped this up as the second coming of christ are now shitting on MKX. I'll say this to the lurkers and people that have made it this far, would you rather listen to the people that have had early success and love this game like REO, and Honeybee or the people that haven't done shit on this site? IMO this game is great, well made, and hype. Fuck the mk9 is the best fighting game of all time BS, if it was you'd all still be playing it.

 

[STRYKIE]

Please kindly ignore the uninformed fools who keep mentioning Tekken, which has not had a really strong 50/50 mix up since Tekken Tag Tournament 1. The majority of Tekken's offense has always functioned like Mortal Kombat 9's, in which you use advantageous pokes or a Smoke-style 50/50 mix up, as you described, to break down your opponent's defense. However, Namco even tends to remove the Smoke-style 50/50 mix ups because they end up being too good.

The point is, I like Mortal Kombat X despite the simple 50/50 mix ups. The last patch seems to head the game into the right direction. Offensive options need to be normalized while defensive options need to be improved. The game will become dull if the meta game remains "pretend like I am playing footsies, get a lucky knock down, and do 50/50 mix ups that lead to 40% with one bar".

There aren't many unreactable mixups used as core offense in Tekken games, no, what I'm addressing is the notion of "I should always be able to punish mixups on block with just as much damage as what they would've had if they hit me"... it's a sentimental expectation at best, and simply not true in many fighting games. I don't know how many there are right now since keeping track of all frame data in TTT2's bare minimum 70 strings per 50+ characters roster wasn't easy, but there certainly were still some <20f low/mid pop-ups that couldn't even at least be hopkicked on block.

Personally I was 3 weeks late getting to play MKX against human competition, there's a lot I'm still catching up on and I'd quite frankly just like more time to get more comfortable with the game, so I could do without semantic fuckbois trying to mold the game into what they want it to be. Kitana mains aren't happy they didn't get the buffs they wanted in a patch after a month? Tough titties. T.Hawk had to wait over 10 years without any help from Capcom for his time in the sun in Super Turbo.

Edit: I forgot to reply to below comment eariler

Roster: probably one of the most boring rosters yet, to be honest. Some characters like D'vorah and Jacqui are nice additions, but others are downright uninspired:

(Source: Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome, 1985)

 

[AZ MotherBrain]

I enjoy MKX a bit more than MK9 and waaaaaaaaaay more than Injustice.
I love the run mechanic and variation system.
The only thing i can say MK9 is superior in, is the roster, but the new characters in MKX are growing on me.

 

[supernumian]

Even if MK9 is my favorite MK, I enjoy MKX more.

 

[kabelfritz]

I can't believe so many people are saying MK9 was this incredible chess-like footsies battle of the ages. I loved MK9 but you people are smoking something. Sonya, Kabal, Kenshi, Cyrax, Freddy, Lao, these are all top characters who made playing footsies a death sentence and had numerous mix-ups like many MKX characters do now. The wake-up game in MK9 was dumb too which was basically LOL INVINCIBLE EVERYTHING ON WAKE UP NO METER. No trades? Input bug? Meter drain glitch? The Grand Canyon-sized difference between the viable tier and hopeless tier?

You guys need to stop holding MK9 under this godray of metagame perfection because it's just.. wrong. MKX is way better than MK9.

i remember in the early days of mk9 soo many people said it has no footsies

 

[Jynks]

So far I find it to be the best nether realm game in a long time. It plays so much better than MK9... if you load that game up it feels like your playing in slow motion and with the gravity off. MKX is just better in pretty much every way. Once it has been out for a while and gone though some of the balance adjustments it will be even better.

As for the roster.. I love the new toons. I think it was a great idea to add some new blood. I would have liked to see some of the MK9 guys back. Smoke or Scarlet, Sindel etc etc.. but I'm very happy with the roster. In fact the only thing that pisses me off about this game is that they appear to only want to release 4 new dlc toons! With the MK series so rich there are just so many awesome additions. If anything I think Predator and Jason are the biggest fails in the roster, as that is 2 slots for toons I care about.

I think Killer Instinct has the right idea. Release a free engine and just constantly update it through patches and then jujst start releasing a never ending stream of toons over the following years. This is what NRS should rip off for the next one.. Just call it simply "Mortal Kombat"!

 

[Mr Bodied]

I see a lot of folks comparing this game to MK9 or Injustice but I think the game has the most in common with UMK3/MKT in terms of sysetem mechanics, pacing, and the overall meta.

I love UMK3/MKT and I always will, they were excellent games but when I look at MKX I wonder if NRS even knows what made these titles special.

This may be a weird term to use when describing an MK game but I think UMK3/MKT is more "tasteful" overall than MKX.

MKX gets an A+ when it comes to over the top fatalities and flashy looking moves, but the game is nowhere near as cool to watch or play. I would much rather have things like Friendships and Mercy vs. these ridiculous ass X-Rays that aren't even that useful in competitive play.

The lack of Friendships in particular coupled with the super heavy family roster really makes this stick out. Others have brought this up, but killing your family members doesn't exactly make you want to stand on your chair and get hype at EVO.

If you want to style on a newbie in this game, you pick a bullshit character like Cassie, abuse her overhead/low low/overhead strings, and do a Brutality or Selfie. If you want to style in UMK3, you can do an Animality, Brutality, Friendship, so many other things.

I think the games themselves are just as responsible for the welfare of the community as the people that make up the community. I just don't see the charm in this game, and I don't foresee it lasting any longer than MK9 or Injustice did but hey, it's selling like hotcakes so who really gives a shit amiright?

 

[IrishMantis]

Thank god this thread died off

Oh wait,,,,,, Shit!

 

[Cossner]