Señor Dave's Zoning Report Card

[Pig Of The Hut]

oh i will enjoy it a bunch as u well know . I am out of school and on break, but real talk I would like to discuss with you ur opinion on this game and ur opinion on kenshi. You got my number of course.

I'm not interested in discussing Kenshi or this game

Good luck man, I'll pull for u

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

I'm not interested in discussing Kenshi or this game

Good luck man, I'll pull for u

thanks and i am guessing u switching mains correct?

 

[ShaolinGunFu]

I like how the Zoning thread is about meterless/metered 50/50s and vortexes.

There was another zoning thread that was 100 pages long, theres not much to talk about. "hey guys do you do a bunch of projectiles and backdash a lot? cool, me too"

 

[Amplified$hotz]

@Pig Of The Hut I told you last night on dat twitter that Kenshi will get buffed soon!

 

[M2Dave]

This list is outdated now for obvious reasons.

I will post and analyze the major changes later.

 

[Rude]

There was another zoning thread that was 100 pages long, theres not much to talk about. "hey guys do you do a bunch of projectiles and backdash a lot? cool, me too"

If that is all you think zoning is then you truly are a....


Fool.

 

[Barrogh]

Neither does meter for a metered vortex haha. I am still waiting on ppl to point out all these "vortexes" that u have no way out of.

But you do get out of them anyway, if by guessing right

...and I agree that lack of tracking changes to Necromancer, Balances and Possessed kind of sucks.

 

[M2Dave]

A brief breakdown of the major changes.

- Quan Chi's demon summon has one second of cool down. You can no longer summon the demon indefinitely without any delay, which reduces the power of the zoning to an A or B. Only time will tell. The vortex has remained the same, though.

- Sub Zero's ice clone has one second of cool down and disappears when Sub Zero blocks any attack. The implication of this change is unknown until I practice with Tom again.

- The in-game frame data that suggests that Kano's b+1 is now -2 on block, which seems like -4 to me. Aside from the block disadvantage, b+1 functions in the same manner in every other aspect. Cybernetic knife toss is untouched.

- Jacqui is untouched. f+1 may have a couple more frames of recovery on block. I am not 100% sure, though.

- Liu Kang's f+2,1 is -3 on block now. Everything else seems unchanged.

- Kenshi has not received any buffs whatsoever. Very disappointing. Next patch perhaps? Come on, NRS. Make Tele-flurry a lot safer.

- Kitana has received a new low attack - b+3. 15F of start up. -8 on block. I guess she now has a 50/50 mix up with b+2 and b+3. I am not going to pretend like I know what this addition does to her game plan because I honestly have no idea.

- Shinnok is the most buffed character in the game. He now has an overhead, performed by b+3. 18F of start up. -11 on block. The old low attack has been changed to f+4. Hell sparks can be meter-burned on block, which makes them +25. The location of the unblockable hand in Necromancer can now be controlled via back and forward. These changes are most likely not good enough to propel Shinnok to top tier status, but he ought to be at least a mid tier character now.

The character to watch out for is D'Vorah.

 

[NYCj360]

U should write the Kenshi balance guide and show everyone how to open up people w b3 and throw

The only way to make his specials safe up close is don't do them so Kenshi has to win w unsafe armor and hitting someone w 200 mids on block

There's a reason top players are running from him than to him. He's garbage compared to the majority of the cast. He use to be good but some people felt he was too OP I guess when in fact he was exactly what the top were.

You're not "properly spacing" Dvorah Cassie quan Kung Jin. And bringing up Lao is a poor attempt because Lao also isn't very good



I look forward to reo Denzel Tom or whoever debuting their Kenshi at Evo and using him all the way to the trophy

Dvorah is a problem for a lot of characters.

Cassie, quan and kung jin on the other hand are not bad fights for kenshi. Cassies pressure got nerfed and both quan and kung jin don't exactly get to maul kenshi. Both of those characters put anyone in the same danger zone once they get hit, regardless of character.

421 overhead slash is a good option vs the entire cast, condition people to respect your b3 and you will be able to start the 421 and force them to block it which gives kenshi 1/3 of a bar.

I don't get how lao is a poor attempt at anything, i used the example of both him and reptile because they literally have the fastest armored advancing specials in the game.

Just because kenshi can't fight everyone doesn't make him bad, granted there are a few issues that need to be fixed in kenjutsu and his d3 and d4 in every variation. The super top tiers will get normalized, there is no doubt about it.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Dvorah is a problem for a lot of characters.

Cassie, quan and kung jin on the other hand are not bad fights for kenshi. Cassies pressure got nerfed and both quan and kung jin don't exactly get to maul kenshi. Both of those characters put anyone in the same danger zone once they get hit, regardless of character.

421 overhead slash is a good option vs the entire cast, condition people to respect your b3 and you will be able to start the 421 and force them to block it which gives kenshi 1/3 of a bar.

I don't get how lao is a poor attempt at anything, i used the example of both him and reptile because they literally have the fastest armored advancing specials in the game.

Just because kenshi can't fight everyone doesn't make him bad, granted there are a few issues that need to be fixed in kenjutsu and his d3 and d4 in every variation. The super top tiers will get normalized, there is no doubt about it.

421 OH slash is punishable by a lot of characters

This isn't a winning strategy, so I chip them for 3% and get wrecked for 30%+ ? Depending on the MU. Kenshi can't open anyone up. His only way of hitting anyone is if the opponent thinks it's a great idea to jump in or over when he has meter

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Lao is bad, buff more please nrs

 

[NYCj360]

421 OH slash is punishable by a lot of characters

This isn't a winning strategy, so I chip them for 3% and get wrecked for 30%+ ? Depending on the MU. Kenshi can't open anyone up. His only way of hitting anyone is if the opponent thinks it's a great idea to jump in or over when he has meter

OH slash is only punishable by reptile currently. The push back on back 3 was removed however, so b3 is no longer a viable option after last night.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

OH slash is only punishable by reptile currently. The push back on back 3 was removed however, so b3 is no longer a viable option after last night.

Raiden says HI lol

Dvorah can as well as can others

And yes b3 was nerfed, this character sure has tons of tools like the current top 15.

Kenshi was raped, and I'm not just talking about b3. He once was competitive like the majority of the cAst

 

[Wrath0594]

Nice writeup!

Just wanted to say that I recently found out Flame Fist Liu Kang's low fireball is a bit better since he stays crouching long enough to avoid certain projectiles like cutthroat Kano's knives, while Dragon Fire does not.

Also shame about Kenshi. Decided to take a look at him thinking I could unlock something, but no, he's fucking trash. I think he was ridiculous in mk9, but the one we have now is just straight up unusable, as you said. Even Kenjutsu is weak. No way to build meter, but needs it in addition to like 1 frame links for his bnbs.

 

[Wrath0594]

It does not help that the Kabal and Zod instant aerial fireballs scare has caused all instant aerial projectiles to be absolutely useless.

Liu Kang and Cassie have pretty good instant air projectiles, don't they?

 

[Epy69zSmallBoys]

Nice writeup!

Just wanted to say that I recently found out Flame Fist Liu Kang's low fireball is a bit better since he stays crouching long enough to avoid certain projectiles like cutthroat Kano's knives, while Dragon Fire does not.

Also shame about Kenshi. Decided to take a look at him thinking I could unlock something, but no, he's fucking trash. I think he was ridiculous in mk9, but the one we have now is just straight up unusable, as you said. Even Kenjutsu is weak. No way to build meter, but needs it in addition to like 1 frame links for his bnbs.

Kenshi was God tier in MK9, as a Cage man in both games, it's nice knowing that when players counter pick Johnny with Kenshi I can still win. In MK9 I spent 80% of the match trying to get in and pressure, and 20% of the match eating his amour.

 

[Wrath0594]

Also @General M2Dave have you seen any decent Ermac players? I know a few MoS mains and feel like that character has A LOT of zoning potential. His stomp forces the opponent to approach, and when they do he's amazing at playing keep away with his myriad of options in the air.

 

[cR_whiteboi]

FT vicious is a Zoning character,

 

[EMPR_MURK]

@Pig Of The Hut shinnok???

 

[xInfra Deadx]

@Pig Of The Hut shinnok???

Not a zoner.

Referring to Necromancer though...it's still a bill.

 

[RYX]

Not a zoner.

Referring to Necromancer though...it's still a bill.

feels bad when you can negate everything he does just by running forward

rip

 

[RoboCop]

@General M2Dave Do you have any thoughts on Jax (Pumped Up)? He's got a handful of solid full-screen mixups between...

• ground pound
  
• energy blast
  
• air-pound
• empty-jump energy blast
• empty-jump ground pound

If his opponent tries to jump but gets tagged by an energy blast, Jax gets a guaranteed 13% unblockable ground pound and advantage to continue his full-screen mixups. Same if he tags them with an overhead dash punch. However, this only works against opponents without teleports.

 

[Rip Torn]

- Quan Chi's demon summon has one second of cool down. You can no longer summon the demon indefinitely without any delay, which reduces the power of the zoning to an A or B. Only time will tell. The vortex has remained the same, though.

That wasn't enough of a nerf, imo. He can still lock you down with the threat of bat and once he does use it, ex rune into rune or instant air skull. If you block those he gets to summon a new bat. This character is still a problem for most of the cast. His zoning is still S tier for sure.

 

[M2Dave]

@General M2Dave Do you have any thoughts on Jax (Pumped Up)? He's got a handful of solid full-screen mixups between...

• ground pound
  
• energy blast
  
• air-pound
• empty-jump energy blast
• empty-jump ground pound

If his opponent tries to jump but gets tagged by an energy blast, Jax gets a guaranteed 13% unblockable ground pound and advantage to continue his full-screen mixups. Same if he tags them with an overhead dash punch. However, this only works against opponents without teleports.

No thoughts. Almost all Jax players I have played use Heavy Weapons.

That wasn't enough of a nerf, imo. He can still lock you down with the threat of bat and once he does use it, ex rune into rune or instant air skull. If you block those he gets to summon a new bat. This character is still a problem for most of the cast. His zoning is still S tier for sure.

I disagree. There is a conspicuous pause now between each demon summon which allows characters to run up to him easier. Besides, consecutive demon summons and demon strikes used to build an immense amount of meter, which means you will have less meter for EX runes now. Instant aerial skull is OK. Terrible recovery just like most aerial projectiles in the game. Quan Chi has almost exclusively become a pure vortex character now, which is probably what he was always meant to be. Cybernetic Kano and Full Auto Jacqui may out-zone him now.

 

[Rude]

I've been warning people about D'Vorah for awhile. Only now are people finally seeing.