Defensive characters?

[Phantasmagore]

Basically the opposite of rushdown, offensive characters. Characters who use the opponent's momentum against them and stuff. Sub-Zero is apparently one of them.

 

[PaletteSwap]

There aren't many true defensive characters that I'm aware of. Covert Ops Sonya isn't defensive per se but she has some cool counters.

So far, MKX appears to be a game full of offensive characters that may have some defensive tools. Scorpion is super offensive but he has flame aura which, on start up, acts as a defensive move against non armored wakeups and jump ins. Then there is the obvious Unbreakable and Grandmaster Sub Zero. Jason has a buff where he is armored for a short while.

Sorry but I don't have a definitive answer as to who the best defensive character besides Sub Zero is.

 

[Invincible Salads]

tempest lao is defensive, but he has some problems right now that hopefully are adressed in the future.

 

[FlappyDaniel]

I play commando Kano fairly defensively. I used his fast pokes to keep people from getting pressure started until I can start my own. Knives to zone. I can keep people locked down with his AA options and FJ4 and again fast pokes/frame traps to keep them from advancing. Then when I have an option to get them in the corner I turn on the aggression.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

Noxious Reptile is defensive. Get the opponent to 5% health, activate EX Stink, block right next to them for 2 seconds

 

[Ugodimak]

There's a reason why Sub Zero is apparently the most hated character among top players.

 

[YOMI DJT]

Tempest Lao is a very strong defensive char. Tornado spin is good for players who run in blindly/mind games in the footsie. Ive said this so many time aha punishes so many things. Careful what string you use vs tempest lao when he has a bar.

 

[YOMI DJT]

Takeda is also a pretty good defensive char since he has normals that go 3/4 screen

 

[Invincible Salads]

Tempest Lao is a very strong defensive char. Tornado spin is good for players who run in blindly/mind games in the footsie. Ive said this so many time aha punishes so many things. Careful what string you use vs tempest lao when he has a bar.

we can't ignore the problems that variation has either tho, but awesome variation

 

[Wetdoba]

we can't ignore the problems that variation has either tho, but awesome variation

what problems?

 

[Wetdoba]

Vicious Ferra Torr is pretty defensive and space control oriented

 

[Osirun]

Shinnok, in general, is a pretty defensive and reactionary character.

 

[YOMI DJT]

we can't ignore the problems that variation has either tho, but awesome variation

It isn't an offensive variation but the defensive tools are strong in my opinion

 

[Invincible Salads]

what problems?

the hat is inconsistant, due to the game actually tracking the position of the hat, it won't connect with anything if the hat isnt in the right position, also the vanilla version takes too long to come back to you.
Plus his MB hattoss in tempest does nothing special.

and in general a few of his strings are really unsafe for no reason. Like f4 should be safe on block, possibly neutral.

 

[FlappyDaniel]

The hat seems like Rose Ultra orbs as far as funtionality is concerned. You should be able to get around it with correct timing as well as you as a kung lao player should have to time your follow ups correctly to combo into hats or do whatever you want to do with it.

Vanilla version takes too long to come back? or you just wish it came back sooner? adjust your combos and setups to compensate for the hat's return time.

tempest seems like a defensive variation, his projectile doesn't need to do anything special other then coming out faster or giving more advantage to you.

every character has several strings that are unsafe. Use your safe strings, mix in your unsafe ones or use them when they're guaranteed to hit due to setup or juggle.

 

[Invincible Salads]

The hat seems like Rose Ultra orbs as far as funtionality is concerned. You should be able to get around it with correct timing as well as you as a kung lao player should have to time your follow ups correctly to combo into hats or do whatever you want to do with it.

Vanilla version takes too long to come back? or you just wish it came back sooner? adjust your combos and setups to compensate for the hat's return time.

tempest seems like a defensive variation, his projectile doesn't need to do anything special other then coming out faster or giving more advantage to you.

every character has several strings that are unsafe. Use your safe strings, mix in your unsafe ones or use them when they're guaranteed to hit due to setup or juggle.

whatever, i still say his f4 needs to be safe, and his MB hatoss needs to have a point, otherwise why use it at all over the regular?

 

[FlappyDaniel]

Possibly, I was just offering thoughts, I've only played the MU a handful of times, and havent put any time into him. Just my impressions. A lot of times people will just approach their characters with the wrong mindset, just givin' my 2 cents, cheers. There's gotta be SOMETHING EX hat throw is giving you. More frame advantage?, faster start up?, mid hit instead of high? something?

 

[Invincible Salads]

Possibly, I was just offering thoughts, I've only played the MU a handful of times, and havent put any time into him. Just my impressions. A lot of times people will just approach their characters with the wrong mindset, just givin' my 2 cents, cheers. There's gotta be SOMETHING EX hat throw is giving you. More frame advantage?, faster start up?, mid hit instead of high? something?

more frame advantage? i guess, if u count the frame advantage you get on a knockdown, but its still not worth using over the regular toss. Its not like the startup is quicker or anything. The travel time is slower too, but you don't really recover fast enough to follow it up with anything and its pretty negative on block.

sorry if i kinda just dismissed what you said, its just you were getting way to technical in justifying lao's current problems in tempest, and yeah you can extend a combo long enough to get your hat back, but what happens if you don't get a hit, that means you gotta wait till it comes back, and you cant even spin while you wait. That kind of contradicts its defensive purpose if its only really effective if you get a hit.

 

[FlappyDaniel]

I really don't know enough to converse in depth, though I don't know how you can be "too technical" in this type of talks. we should look for theoretically the most effective ways to use moves and setups, not JUST try and use them in ways we wished they worked or want them to work.

your "problems that need to be addressed" sound like they're possibly not problems with the character but problems with your approach to playing him, so I don't want you to just mentally dismiss these "issues" hoping for a patch or something and then never get them and hinder your own progress. Again, I would have to see and study his tools to know for sure, that's just my impression. Try finding/talking to a kung lao main with some experience under his belt if you can find one in your section of the forums and pick their brain if you're having trouble. You may just be missing the point on him or some of his setups. If I'm completely wrong, that's fine too. I'm just breakin' ribs over here.

 

[Invincible Salads]

I really don't know enough to converse in depth, though I don't know how you can be "too technical" in this type of talks. we should look for theoretically the most effective ways to use moves and setups, not JUST try and use them in ways we wished they worked or want them to work.

your "problems that need to be addressed" sound like they're possibly not problems with the character but problems with your approach to playing him, so I don't want you to just mentally dismiss these "issues" hoping for a patch or something and then never get them and hinder your own progress. Again, I would have to see and study his tools to know for sure, that's just my impression. Try finding/talking to a kung lao main with some experience under his belt if you can find one in your section of the forums and pick their brain if you're having trouble. You may just be missing the point on him or some of his setups. If I'm completely wrong, that's fine too. I'm just breakin' ribs over here.

but were very early into the games lifespan, with plenty of patches to come on the horizon, i don't see why we should just accept something about a character if it really is something annoying or pointless if it can be improved upon in a new patch. If he never does get those kinds of buffs or changes then we'll cross that bridge when we get to it, until then however im going to keep stating what his problems are and suggestions to improve him (without breaking him)

also i don't see how i could be missing the point on his specials or setups, their pretty self explanitory and i've spent plenty of time with him whenever i get to play, in fact im going to lab some more with him tonite (along with some other characters).

 

[FlappyDaniel]

sure, and if they truly are issues hopefully other Kung lao mains will let their voices be heard. Just, as you said, we're early into the game's lifespan. You don't know your character perfectly yet either, and could be overlooking something or playing him incorrectly. Your attitude just makes me think you think NRS is gonna patch anything that seems even slightly off... and that's most likely not the case, they'll likely balance based on high level and pro play since they're using their characters correctly, not based on casuals.

i just spent a little time reading some of your posts in your own character's forum, and it's clear that the issue is you not approaching the character, play style wise, correctly. Yes, some character heavily rely on MB, in fact even my character (commando kano) relies on it as armored command grabs are paramount to my pressure. No offense meant to you but you may want to nail down your tech before trying to get your character buffed.

 

[Invincible Salads]

sure, and if they truly are issues hopefully other Kung lao mains will let their voices be heard. Just, as you said, we're early into the game's lifespan. You don't know your character perfectly yet either, and could be overlooking something or playing him incorrectly. Your attitude just makes me think you think NRS is gonna patch anything that seems even slightly off... and that's most likely not the case, they'll likely balance based on high level and pro play since they're using their characters correctly, not based on casuals.

i just spent a little time reading some of your posts in your own character's forum, and it's clear that the issue is you not approaching the character, play style wise, correctly. Yes, some character heavily rely on MB, in fact even my character (commando kano) relies on it as armored command grabs are paramount to my pressure. No offense meant to you but you may want to nail down your tech before trying to get your character buffed.

whats not to understand? get in, pressure with your strings, punish attempts to counter with spin (MB spin moreso than the regular) and getting setups on knockdown (mostly with tempest and hattrick)

 

[FlappyDaniel]

ok so you get his basics as far as theory goes, but do you actually execute correctly and setup with the right timings? because from your distress it seems like you have issues with hat spin setups, and you want to be mad rushdown, when your variation lends itself more to lame and reactionary play. Maybe it's just a matter of you labbin' up hat spin setups on an opponent who varies their wakeup timing until you find the sweet spot that makes everybody hate their life lol.

I still fuck up oki/wakeup timing for my command grab mixups and shit all the time because I'm new to NRS with MKX, so I get the struggle. Also, If I'm wrong about everything I'm telling you, I'll eat my words, just voicin' my thoughts.

 

[Invincible Salads]

ok so you get his basics as far as theory goes, but do you actually execute correctly and setup with the right timings? because from your distress it seems like you have issues with hat spin setups, and you want to be mad rushdown, when your variation lends itself more to lame and reactionary play. Maybe it's just a matter of you labbin' up hat spin setups on an opponent who varies their wakeup timing until you find the sweet spot that makes everybody hate their life lol.

I still fuck up oki/wakeup timing for my command grab mixups and shit all the time because I'm new to NRS with MKX, so I get the struggle. Also, If I'm wrong about everything I'm telling you, I'll eat my words, just voicin' my thoughts.

alright, i can respect that, but we'll see whats what.