I won't disagree with you on the topic of the spin punishing the clone, however he said he's showcasing a video tomorrow with all characters and their options, so we can wait until then to determine how good the clone really is and whether or not many characters really don't have any viable options outside of wasting meter.
Are you seriously suggesting that we base match-ups on casuals and not actual tournament play?
If it were to be nerfed, that's probably the best route to go. I don't think I would be opposed to that. That would remove a huge part of the corner guessing game for the victim while still allowing SZ to be remain strong with a good 50/50. It would also eliminate the potential of ruining the character by messing with his core game plan, i.e. the klone.
yeah, i mean if throw into clone were his main way of opening people up i'd say let it roll but, he already has plenty of options with out it, and thats what makes it a problem. Because a good sub player would have no reason to use it enough to become predictable with it. So if they decide to use it out of the blue its practically guaranteed because you won't see it comming.
Quan Chi's corner game is reeeeaaaallly fucked up.
yeah but quans defence sucks, he's effectively a glass cannon, which i like.
@STB Shujinkydink Trust me I know I got my back blown out last tournament by Dink after thinking I had the MU somewhat figured out LOL
Tom does such a great job using it. I never use it because I never think about it in a match.
I'm a bit older than most players so it takes me a bit to grind something into my routine but I'll get it....it's such a good tool. On the other hand if that's what ended up getting nerfed, I wouldn't be affected to badly I guess haha.
and thats the point im trying to make xD, its because you don't need it that its even more scary. Say you need one more combo to win the match, your opponent is already worried about a 50/50 and trying to get out or block it. Then you just go up and throw into your ice clone, get your combo and win! lol they'd most likely never see it coming, so the chance of teching it is really low. Other than that i think sub is fine.Tom does such a great job using it. I never use it because I never think about it in a match.
I said what I said, because it's not the first time I see you around crying over Sub-Zero. And I don't really understand why you're only talking about Kung Lao here when the video shows another bunch of characters. There's a lot harder matches ups for Sub than KL. And that video was done has a counter-asnwer to all the cry baby in this forum saying Sub-Zero is absolutely safe in all of this strings ending in Klone, which he obviously isn't. Did you even read the exemple I gave to you about Ermac and Jacqui?
I woulnd't really call a waste if it leads to 25%+ punish.
It ain't free, son.
I really don't agree with this. Like I said it's not a "free combo" like the other dude said. It's all about mind games. It's not like it's inescapable.
Agreed. Tyrant seems more solid, at least so far.
im not a top player nor do i claim to have intrinsic knowledge to fg's and so on, but like when i play sub zeros using dvorah venomous (or any other variant for that matter) the corner game is actually not too bad considering her D3, D$ and F2 range (granted f2 is not safe as has slight advance) but on top of that once you get the hit and destroy the clone, its an easy corner turnaround with F42 and all of a sudden im like so try your little MB slide reversal on me bro, so i can waste your meter and then mix u up all day with F22 and puddles or D4, f22 bug spray like, she stuffs him hard and his ice ball game is pish to her
not to mention ALLLLLLL the other characters that just have stupidly outrageous mixup strings and fancy pants combos that arent too taxing to pull off. hell sub zero is the one guy i struggle to hit any high damage combos with at all (ok yes he has clone and match pacing control, but you can still fk up and suddenly your in a large string costing you a lot of your very needed meter)
You can't determine the extent of a matchup from FT2's and FT3's. So yeah, it takes a much longer set (more than one) to fully explore the nuances.
I get what you're trying to say, but using casual games as a determining factor for anything is completely ass-backwards. It goes against the standard of every other competitive event in the history of the universe. There is nothing on the line in casuals, and it's an opportunity to try new things and learn. That is why wins and losses do not count in a casual setting. Not to mention the yomi is competely different in a long set vs. a ft2 or 3.
