General/Other - Kotal Kahn Kotal Kahn General Discussion

[NHDR]

So I picked up War God yesterday, I've only played Kotal for 2 hours max. Want to know if I'm on the right track with all of this so far...

-AA with air takedown, D2
-Pressure with F1 xx Saw Blade (DF2)
-Use F2 to get in, then combo into air takedown on juggle
-Knock away with F12, then sun ray for either health or damage chip
-Use Sword Throw at full screen, run in after its blocked
-On knockdown, use D3 xx Overhead Sword MB for mixup
-Use MB Overhead Sword on wake-up
-Alternate between Sword Sweep and Overhead Sword to mix it up
-Use Sword Earthquake at long range. Fake it and AA with air takedown

Any other basics? My challenge right now is getting this all into muscle memory. I'm going to be playing War God exclusively, won't be touching his other variations.

 

[LeeVanDam]

So what is Kotal Kahn's game plan in Sun God and Blood God? How does he open up his opponent? His strings aren't really fast enough to punish a lot of characters and his specials don't give him any mix-up opportunities. Once your opponent learns your block strings, your done. What is Kotal supposed to do against an opponent who knows how to block?

Sun God Choke really changes the game versus someone who blocks often. It has great range, and it will make someone choose whether it's worth trying to interrupt your strings in order to avoid being tick grabbed. Empty jump becomes so serious on knockdown too since it's unbreakable, and you also have the benefit of a really easy running grab too. The untechable knockdown in fantastic for okizeme.

My current game plan is just to stalk my opponent. The command grab lets you impose threat just by closing distance, so I spend a lot of time walk blocking until I'm in. EX sunstone is fast enough to where it can assist in disrupting zoning long enough for you to get in, and f+1 is also great for closing distance. I'm in love with f+2 more than I should be, but it's so good... and appears to be so sudden when you spend most of the time walking around.

Everyone so used to blocking on wake up unless they have a good reversal, that you have a great chance to Sun God Choke them again just because they don't want to be hit. Once that happens, many opponent will do whatever they can to avoid being choked while getting up... so with the next knockdown sequence you can calmly walk backwards ready to block or avoid whatever irrational plan they have. If they wake up blocking, dash sun god choke. Anything else will have a higher chance of whiffing so you'll at least make them spend bars on a breaker when you launch them or get more free damage from another choke. The presence of an unblockable attack makes everything completely different for the opponent, and you will definitely change their playstyle because they will want to at all possible avoid it.

I'm going to be streaming Sun God Kotal Kahn almost every day, so please help my game out because I really want to take Sun God to the next level. I'm new to this board, and didn't take advantage of all the knowledge here during MK9. Thanks in advance for all the help you folks will give me too

www.twitch.tv/leevandam

A link to my most recent longplay where I'm working to apply some of the stuff I'm talking about in my post:

 

[KeyserSoze]

Sun God Choke really changes the game versus someone who blocks often. It has great range, and it will make someone choose whether it's worth trying to interrupt your strings in order to avoid being tick grabbed. Empty jump becomes so serious on knockdown too since it's unbreakable, and you also have the benefit of a really easy running grab too. The untechable knockdown in fantastic for okizeme.

My current game plan is just to stalk my opponent. The command grab lets you impose threat just by closing distance, so I spend a lot of time walk blocking until I'm in. EX sunstone is fast enough to where it can assist in disrupting zoning long enough for you to get in, and f+1 is also great for closing distance. I'm in love with f+2 more than I should be, but it's so good... and appears to be so sudden when you spend most of the time walking around.

Everyone so used to blocking on wake up unless they have a good reversal, that you have a great chance to Sun God Choke them again just because they don't want to be hit. Once that happens, many opponent will do whatever they can to avoid being choked while getting up... so with the next knockdown sequence you can calmly walk backwards ready to block or avoid whatever irrational plan they have. If they wake up blocking, dash sun god choke. Anything else will have a higher chance of whiffing so you'll at least make them spend bars on a breaker when you launch them or get more free damage from another choke. The presence of an unblockable attack makes everything completely different for the opponent, and you will definitely change their playstyle because they will want to at all possible avoid it.

I'm going to be streaming Sun God Kotal Kahn almost every day, so please help my game out because I really want to take Sun God to the next level. I'm new to this board, and didn't take advantage of all the knowledge here during MK9. Thanks in advance for all the help you folks will give me too

www.twitch.tv/leevandam

A link to my most recent longplay where I'm working to apply some of the stuff I'm talking about in my post:

I think you are off to a great start with your Sun God. Looks promising!

Three things that I would recommend right off the bat after watching your set with Cage:

1) Use more B32, 212, and 114 to pressure. These strings all have a lot going for them. All three are safe on block. 114 is your best whiff punisher and leads to high damaging combos. 212 rewards with a hard knockdown on hit, and even though there is a gap between the 1 and second 2, the 21 can be cancelled into Ex-Sun Disc for either some nice damage or some awesome frame advantage. B32 has awesome range, grants a hard knockdown, and is a great way to get in similar to both B1 and F1.

2) I'd try and limit how many naked F2s I threw out in neutral. Although I agree that it isn't quite as punishable as its frame data might suggest, I assure you that it can and will be punished HARD as players get more experience playing against Kotal.

3) I love alternating between F3 and B2 after a knockdown. They actually look somewhat similar and provide a very basic mix-up game to a character who is severely lacking in mix-ups (Blood God and Sun God players should be looking for any mix-ups they can get)

I loved the way you used Sun Choke and Sun/God Ray. Well done.

 

[LeeVanDam]

I think you are off to a great start with your Sun God. Looks promising!

Three things that I would recommend right off the bat after watching your set with Cage:

1) Use more B32, 212, and 114 to pressure. These strings all have a lot going for them. All three are safe on block. 114 is your best whiff punisher and leads to high damaging combos. 212 rewards with a hard knockdown on hit, and even though there is a gap between the 1 and second 2, the 21 can be cancelled into Ex-Sun Disc for either some nice damage or some awesome frame advantage. B32 has awesome range, grants a hard knockdown, and is a great way to get in similar to both B1 and F1.

2) I'd try and limit how many naked F2s I threw out in neutral. Although I agree that it isn't quite as punishable as its frame data might suggest, I assure you that it can and will be punished HARD as players get more experience playing against Kotal.

3) I love alternating between F3 and B2 after a knockdown. They actually look somewhat similar and provide a very basic mix-up game to a character who is severely lacking in mix-ups (Blood God and Sun God players should be looking for any mix-ups they can get)

I loved the way you used Sun Choke and Sun/God Ray. Well done.

Thank you so much for the tips! I'll put this into my game immediately!

 

[regulas]

So I picked up War God yesterday, I've only played Kotal for 2 hours max. Want to know if I'm on the right track with all of this so far...

-AA with air takedown, D2
-Pressure with F1 xx Saw Blade (DF2)
-Use F2 to get in, then combo into air takedown on juggle
-Knock away with F12, then sun ray for either health or damage chip
-Use Sword Throw at full screen, run in after its blocked
-On knockdown, use D3 xx Overhead Sword MB for mixup
-Use MB Overhead Sword on wake-up
-Alternate between Sword Sweep and Overhead Sword to mix it up
-Use Sword Earthquake at long range. Fake it and AA with air takedown

Any other basics? My challenge right now is getting this all into muscle memory. I'm going to be playing War God exclusively, won't be touching his other variations.

-The quake move is also fine in strings because the mid stunblocks them, good for people who block alot.
- Use full strings when possible (f1b2~ rather then just f1~) it's free chip/extra hit and has no particular disadvantage.
- Sun ray and blood offering are rare uses for you, dont try and use them, rather use when you coincidentally have the time, in general you get more from having just cancelled into a sword hit.
-df2 isn't fast but it's an ok anti-air move at least it hits air targets way better then the overhead one.
-While overhead EX is the best wakeup, I think df2 is also armoured. Also EX is especially good as a potential combo starter so sometimes don't wait to save the meter just for knockdowns.

 

[Pnut]

Any footage of the pros playing War God? I'm browsing YT trying to find something... Thanks.

http://www.twitch.tv/pandaxgaming/v/4135939

Here's me playing at like 13:30. I'm also playing elsewhere but the archives are so jumbled I'll have to find them all. If anyone has any suggestions how to improve let me know.

 

[FrozenSun]

Hi, first post here ! Hope I won't repost anything even if I'm a long time lurker.

I've been practicing on my meterless combos (I main Sun God btw) since Kotal really like to spend his meter and I've hit a point where I can really figure out if I'm doing something wrong or it's just not guaranteed at all.
It's from f1b2 since it's my main source of " punition damage ".

f1b2, f2, b122xxSun choke/air grab

The sun choke outdamage the air grab only at level 3 (31%) otherwise it's a good meterless 28%. But the sun choke is way easier to connect than the air grab, waaaaaaaaaay easier !

First of all the recovery of f1b2 is a real b****, and I suppose I have to hit with f2 at a certain exact point so the relaunch is high enough for the b122 to bounce high enough again for the air grab to connect. But I really don't know for sure ... that's why I'm asking you guys if you can try this out?

Is it planned to make a stick thread for every variations in the future? The first post would be edited often to keep up with the finds (combos/techs). Otherwise you really have to dig deep to find some good stuff ! Just a thought.

 

[regulas]

First of all the recovery of f1b2 is a real b****, and I suppose I have to hit with f2 at a certain exact point so the relaunch is high enough for the b122 to bounce high enough again for the air grab to connect. But I really don't know for sure ... that's why I'm asking you guys if you can try this out?

Is it planned to make a stick thread for every variations in the future? The first post would be edited often to keep up with the finds (combos/techs). Otherwise you really have to dig deep to find some good stuff ! Just a thought.

In general I feel that f1b2 while fast is unsafe enough to maybe warrant using 212 or 114 or b3 instead.

With the air grab to connect after a combo probably does just require the first connectible frames for your links for hieght as you noted, just takes some practice. That being said since grab stacks itself up even when it's not level 3 you may aswell always use that since it's the easiest connection to make unless you are aiming to EX air grab to extend of course. Also maybe theres an easier string to connect the air grab with , maybe try variations out? Don't have a console handy to check it out right now.

 

[Chairface_ChipNDale]

I'm having a lot of fun with Sun Choke as well. I wish it did a little more damage but the mind games are totally worth it. D1 into grab has been effective for he to get the opponent unsure what to do. Once I predict the jump just AA grab, NJP, or f2 into juggle

 

[Breakin Wordzz]

so can kotal be zoned? because in my mind if someone tries to zone you u jsut sun ray heal and duck high projectiles and if they throw mids jsut jump lol. is that possible?

 

[Tomo009]

In practice the ray is really slow. If you try to throw it out in those situations, chances are you will just get hit and then you net gain pretty much nothing in most matchups.

You can duck high projectiles but most zoners don't rely 100% on high projectiles. Getting in on Cybernetic Kano for example is really really tough.

In War God I've had relative success with EX df3 but that is spending a meter just to get in, which is good but wont be available every time.

Other than that, approach slowly is mostly all you can do, Kotal severely lacks anti zoning tools. You want to get into that mid range where you can make the zoning characters start to sweat.

 

[LeeVanDam]

so can kotal be zoned? because in my mind if someone tries to zone you u jsut sun ray heal and duck high projectiles and if they throw mids jsut jump lol. is that possible?

This is exactly what I do now, just heal and wait it out. The character would need to specialize in zoning in order for it to be an issue.

I do try to slowly walk and block forward if their zoning tools are good, because I figure then it would out damage the healing. Also, even though it is suspect... f+2 will go under high projectiles a bit after start up. Beyond that with Sun God, you just slowly get to range 2 where you can threaten with a running Sun God Choke or f+2 (in case they decide to jump the grab attempt)

 

[RiverHB]

@regulas EX df2 (Saw Blade) is definitely armored. It can be used at the start of the round if (when) the opponent advances or jumps for a near guaranteed first hit. The wide, sweeping arc of the EX Saw Blade grants armor along with safety from the opposition's reprisal on block. Reliable anti-air. It's a solid tool. I feel naked when not in War God variation. Funny, because pre-launch I was looking at the other two variations over War God lol.

 

[_CHINOCUDEIRO_]

Sun god:
I love,I mean LOVE the B1,4 string:
B1 is only 8f and the 4 is low.This opens 2 situations:
1)on hit(very often if you do the Ji1/2 before)your opp.has a stand stun situation so he cant do a wake up or reversal and you can cancel the b14 into a meaty sun disc proyectile,sun ray upon you and block to regenerate health,safe sacrifice,etc...and also its the perfect distance for D4-pressure or even a F2-F2-....(the F2 hits a perfect height for another one),etc...
2)on block...its a true block-string so you cancel into a free sun god-choke¡¡¡

 

[Hellbringer]

Sun god:
I love,I mean LOVE the B1,4 string:
B1 is only 8f and the 4 is low.This opens 2 situations:
1)on hit(very often if you do the Ji1/2 before)your opp.has a stand stun situation so he cant do a wake up or reversal and you can cancel the b14 into a meaty sun disc proyectile,sun ray upon you and block to regenerate health,safe sacrifice,etc...and also its the perfect distance for D4-pressure or even a F2-F2-....(the F2 hits a perfect height for another one),etc...
2)on block...its a true block-string so you cancel into a free sun god-choke¡¡¡

I find it hard to hitconfirm from b14. Its probably just me tho.
I saw Ketchup use alot of times the b32 string and follow up with armor sunchoke. It seems to work really well.

 

[REYTHEGREAT]

I dont know about you guys but that Jacqui Briggs matchup is a bitch lol. @karaokelove

 

[Deleted member 5032]

I dont know about you guys but that Jacqui Briggs matchup is a bitch lol. @karaokelove

...and I was drunk off my ass...

Ggs! <3

 

[NHDR]

I've yet to take my Kotal online, still getting my muscle memory used to MK. My ground game is still weak because I'm coming from playing Street Fighter, so I'm going to be relying a lot on baiting jumps by doing nothing. With that said, can I rely on Air Takedown as an AA? Or should I use D2?

 

[KeyserSoze]

I've yet to take my Kotal online, still getting my muscle memory used to MK. My ground game is still weak because I'm coming from playing Street Fighter, so I'm going to be relying a lot on baiting jumps by doing nothing. With that said, can I rely on Air Takedown as an AA? Or should I use D2?

both work on good reads, but in general, I have more success with his d2. I think his d2 is pretty awesome and I tend to land it a lot, in a variety of situations.

 

[KeyserSoze]

This is exactly what I do now, just heal and wait it out. The character would need to specialize in zoning in order for it to be an issue.

I do try to slowly walk and block forward if their zoning tools are good, because I figure then it would out damage the healing. Also, even though it is suspect... f+2 will go under high projectiles a bit after start up. Beyond that with Sun God, you just slowly get to range 2 where you can threaten with a running Sun God Choke or f+2 (in case they decide to jump the grab attempt)

Agree. Kotal absolutely can be zoned, but he has several tools available to him, depending on the variation, which allow him to deal with zoning fairly well:

1) Awesome walk, dash, and run speed. (Ducking and walking/dashing forward is a very effective strategy if you can competently block.)

2) Ways to heal himself (sun ray/god ray, ex-sun scorch, blood totem)

3) A way to take 34% less damage (obsidian totem)

(2) and (3) are extremely useful for dealing with zoners in particular, because they tend to have weak damage output to begin with.

 

[LeeVanDam]

I've yet to take my Kotal online, still getting my muscle memory used to MK. My ground game is still weak because I'm coming from playing Street Fighter, so I'm going to be relying a lot on baiting jumps by doing nothing. With that said, can I rely on Air Takedown as an AA? Or should I use D2?[/QUOT

I've yet to take my Kotal online, still getting my muscle memory used to MK. My ground game is still weak because I'm coming from playing Street Fighter, so I'm going to be relying a lot on baiting jumps by doing nothing. With that said, can I rely on Air Takedown as an AA? Or should I use D2?

Air Takedown will work for you as an AA, as long as you aren't doing it as a last minute reaction. Jumps are high enough to where you should be fine unless you were thinking about doing a specific action or if their jump causes you whiff something. EX Air Takedown will easily net you 30% for your trouble, and right now it's my go to anti-air. Coming from Street Fighter, the dash under technique is valid here also. I use d+2 rarely because for me, it appears to cover Kotal's front more so than the space above him.

Also, don't hesitate to meet them in the air with a forward jumping early 1 or 2. If you win the air to air battle, then you also get f+2, f+2, 2,1 > EX air takedown, 2,1 > Sun God Choke. Not bad for poking them out of the air eh?

 

[Dragoomba]

Does anybody know War God's Sword Shake cancel's actual frame data? It's one of those things where the in-game data is all wonky (100% damage, +1 on block, etc.).

 

[Tomo009]

It is -5 in the current PC version of the game, I tested it against Kung Lao spin and Kano UpBall, with only the EX spin punishing it.

I don't know if that has changed in the patches console have released.

EDIT: I want footage of people successfully using sun ray to counter zoning.. I've tried it and it just doesn't work for me. It is too slow and heals back too little to be worth trading with the projectile coming at you and possible being punished with full combo by some characters because it is just that reactable/slow.

I don't completely doubt it could be effective but obviously I am using it wrong and need to be shown how to use it properly.

 

[Crayraven]

I'm currently using blood god most of the time, I think the variation is great for pacing the tempo of the fight. You can drop crystal totem when you got the enemy on the defensive and you want to deal extra damage. And if you are pressured just drop obsidian totem. Blood god's damage is massive compared to the other variations.

The only problem I have currently with it is blood totem is broken on PC (and maybe consoles, I can't check because I don't own one). Blood totem only depletes the enemies meter with hits from 1 and 3. 2 and 4 do not work and causes the enemy to gain meter like normal.

Edit:

Testing further, the only hits that seem to really work with blood totem are d1 and d3. All other normals will delete the enemy's meter on the first attack and then cease to work after that.

 

[VenomX-90]

I love spamming the fuck out of the command grab and making my opponents be on their knees, its so fucking satisfying online.