Team Spooky Streaming Equipment Seized by the Department of Homeland Security

[Shady]

I strongly feel that most crime is caused by the fact that people are not given the chance to take the responsibility for their own freedom. People turn against 'the system' because this system turned against them first. I also feel that defending police or DHS in these kind of matters sounds to me a lot like Stockholm syndrome.

Now you're just entering the argument that will go on for days. Because honestly, there is no way of telling. Let's assume there is no law enforcement of any kind, and there is still division of labor, division by income, etc. What's to stop someone who is on their last dime from just taking your shit at gun point? Nothing. If we're entering this argument, we're entering an argument for an ideal society where all is shared and all are equal. Sadly, that is not the world we live in. Like it or not, it's the way it is for a reason.

 

[CptXecution]

Now you're just entering the argument that will go on for days. Because honestly, there is no way of telling. Let's assume there is no law enforcement of any kind, and there is still division of labor, division by income, etc. What's to stop someone who is on their last dime from just taking your shit at gun point? Nothing. If we're entering this argument, we're entering an argument for an ideal society where all is shared and all are equal. Sadly, that is not the world we live in. Like it or not, it's the way it is for a reason.

Exactly what I was saying when I say we NEED law enforcement. We don't know what would happen if there wasn't any order in this country. Long story short, I may be biased because my brother is a deputy sheriff in SC for the Richland County Sheriff's Department and I've seen the area he patrols. To say there shouldn't be law enforcement down in that area would be absurd. For all we know, a cop may have taken someone in who might have had a plan to break into your house and steal your shit. You never know these kinds of things and I don't think the GOOD cops get enough recognition for the great work they do. I am on Sp00ky's side with this one though, but again we all don't know the whole story and let's all just hope he gets his stuff back.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

There is no liberty, security and human rights without law. Simple as that.

If everyone can do what they want, then anybody can prevent you from doing what you want.

 

[Sasuga]

Now you're just entering the argument that will go on for days. Because honestly, there is no way of telling. Let's assume there is no law enforcement of any kind, and there is still division of labor, division by income, etc. What's to stop someone who is on their last dime from just taking your shit at gun point? Nothing. If we're entering this argument, we're entering an argument for an ideal society where all is shared and all are equal. Sadly, that is not the world we live in. Like it or not, it's the way it is for a reason.

I agree with you that things are the way they are for a reason. The main reason for a lot of suffering is fear. I'm not under the impression that without law enforcement there would be no murdering or stealing going on, there will always be that no matter what. I just strongly feel that there would be a lot less. But there is indeed no way of telling.

This 'system' we have now is an easy answer to how to deal with our fear (let others deal with it) but it ran completely out of hand. I don't believe there is one person on earth familiar with spooky that is negatively affected by him. And still they can take his stuff?!?!

If everyone can do what they want, then anybody can prevent you from doing what you want.

Exactly. But this works in both ways. There couldn't be a better way of teaching people how to deal with freedom. Better to have people find out themselves than to have a law that tells people how to do it and actually denying people their freedom.

 

[Shadowfire]

I somewhat agree, i just personally have no use for them

This is like when Libertarians just assume that there will magically be a paved road outside their house.

Yeah, I'm sorry. I thought you were in the US. Canadian mounties generally are pretty lax compared to US police

Hahaha you know we do have regular cops too. I've lived here all my life and I don't think I've even seen a mountie.

On the subject of Ron Paul; I can understand why people get excited for him considering he has a very candy-coated view on individual freedoms, but none of his ideas make sense once you get past the emotion and look into the details. One good example of that was at the Republican debate where he was advocating pulling the plug on every sick person in the country who doesn't have health insurance.

I feel like arguments for a country without a social safety net are about as ridiculous as the arguments for a lawless society being plausible, and for the same reasons.

Also if it's social consciousness and regulation that caused this recession, how come we haven't been hit nearly as badly up here? Speaking as someone who needs a lot of medication I can say with certainty that I'd be in much worse financial shape if the government didn't cover so much of it. I'd probably not see a doctor, be in much worse health, be less productive and be unable to work and contribute most of the time. No person is an island, it all comes around.

 

[Sabin]

snip

I really, really wish you lived in my area so you can see what kind of BS the cops/feds get away with on a daily basis.
It's already bad enough that we can be detained at the border without warrant, rhyme or reason, but I just personally cant sit right with what pretty much amounted to legalized/government theft of his equipment and his livelihood.

I mean what when the TSA agent is cupping your genitals when youre int he US, are you just going to say "theyre doing their job?" lol. It can, and does happen on a regular basis here.

This is like when Libertarians just assume that there will magically be a paved road outside their house.



Hahaha you know we do have regular cops too. I've lived here all my life and I don't think I've even seen a mountie.

On the subject of Ron Paul; I can understand why people get excited for him considering he has a very candy-coated view on individual freedoms, but none of his ideas make sense once you get past the emotion and look into the details. One good example of that was at the Republican debate where he was advocating pulling the plug on every sick person in the country who doesn't have health insurance.

I feel like arguments for a country without a social safety net are about as ridiculous as the arguments for a lawless society being plausible, and for the same reasons.

Also if it's social consciousness and regulation that caused this recession, how come we haven't been hit nearly as badly up here? Speaking as someone who needs a lot of medication I can say with certainty that I'd be in much worse financial shape if the government didn't cover so much of it. I'd probably not see a doctor, be in much worse health, be less productive and be unable to work and contribute most of the time. No person is an island, it all comes around.

LOL, the one time I was stopped by any police in canada, it was a mountie. Was smoking a J at the time, and thought he was going to give me a hard time..but he just wanted to say hi to us. Most Toronto players were saying the police were complete assholes anyway.

As for canada not getting raped economically..everyything is linked in a globalized society, just wait. Basically if america catches a cold, the rest of the world gets sick, and you can pretty much see the people with power are willing to do anything necessary to keep the scam going. I expect temporary relief before things get worse. The digital dollars that are created to bail out America eventually will have repurcussions, and they will have to travel somehwere. You can't just devalue a world reserve currency endlessly to service the debt without there being major problems down the line.

As for Ron, while you might think his ideas are completely candy coated, I would rather take a chance with that than g down the same road we have been going down for the past 3 years (Obama pretty much turned out to be Bush III in that regard.) Don't really want to get too deep into it on TYM though, because I don't want to end up arguing at each other.

 

[GGA soonk]

You can thank the Patriot Act for that. They are just doing their jobs.



I was going with the crowd, thinking how HLS was retarded and etc, but after reading this well thought out post, I think I'm going to refrain from making judgmental calls when I dont know the full details. Besides, youre right, they are just doing their jobs after all.

"Just doing their jobs." Biggest copout ever. I guess these people can't think for themselves, eh?

You are a security guard at the bank. Someone is looking nervous and looking around, constantly looking around, very twitchy, whatever. Of course you're going to give him a little extra attention. Same goes for the DHS, they have to be thorough. Now, there is a different argument of whether it is the DHS that makes people nervous or people being nervous brings DHS attention. This a chicken or the egg argument and that is irrelevant.

There's a difference in paying extra attention to someone and confiscating thousands in equipment.

Maybe some of you need a reminder.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

 

[Shadowfire]

As for canada not getting raped economically..everyything is linked in a globalized society, just wait. Basically if america catches a cold, the rest of the world gets sick, and you can pretty much see the people with power are willing to do anything necessary to keep the scam going. I expect temporary relief before things get worse. The digital dollars that are created to bail out America eventually will have repurcussions, and they will have to travel somehwere. You can't just devalue a world reserve currency endlessly to service the debt without there being major problems down the line.

Oh we're definitely still feeling it :/ It often seems like US politics, which we have no say in, decides our future at least as much as our own government does. It's frustrating.

As for Ron, while you might think his ideas are completely candy coated, I would rather take a chance with that than g down the same road we have been going down for the past 3 years (Obama pretty much turned out to be Bush III in that regard.) Don't really want to get too deep into it on TYM though, because I don't want to end up arguing at each other.

I thought that the major criticism of Obama's viability was that he was popular for being an unknown quantity making unrealistic promises that people were willing to take a chance on? Sounds like exactly the kind of politician you don't want to vote for if you're unhappy with the status quo.

I don't think there's a problem with arguing so long as everyone remains civil. Intelligent arguing is just about the fastest way to exchange information.

 

[Theme]

"Just doing their jobs." Biggest copout ever. I guess these people can't think for themselves, eh?

Certain guidelines and regulations warrant that they confiscate the equipment. And thanks to the Patriot Act, this is made easier. Copout? Stop being naive. While I agree that 'two brown people talking about blowing shit up in MK' is ridiculous grounds to go on, but what if it was a real threat? Better safe than sorry. Youre one of the people saying "OH THEIR MOLESTING OUR KIDS AND US IN AIRPORTS!" right? Well, I'll take molestation any day over an unsafe and unsecure plane ride. You make it out like the police state is that bad... maybe where your from it is, but please, speak for yourself, stop generalizing. Its ignorant.

There's a difference in paying extra attention to someone and confiscating thousands in equipment.
Maybe some of you need a reminder.

I am aware of constitutional rights and all that jazz. Too bad its all irrevelant once the Patriot Act comes into play and National security may be at risk.

 

[GGA soonk]

Youre one of the people saying "OH THEIR MOLESTING OUR KIDS AND US IN AIRPORTS!" right? Well, I'll take molestation any day over an unsafe and unsecure plane ride.

And you're one of those people that have no problem giving up their rights for the illusion of safety, "but please, speak for yourself." It's not ignorant of me to value my rights. If you don't value yours, don't bring the rest of us down with you.

 

[Sabin]

While I agree that 'two brown people talking about blowing shit up in MK' is ridiculous grounds to go on, but what if it was a real threat? Better safe than sorry.

For the last time, this did not happen. It was a joke one of my friends made on twitter after this happened. Please, I beg of you, read more.

Youre one of the people saying "OH THEIR MOLESTING OUR KIDS AND US IN AIRPORTS!" right? Well, I'll take molestation any day over an unsafe and unsecure plane ride.

.....

You do realize that none of this "extra security" hasn't actually made us any safer, right?

You make it out like the police state is that bad... maybe where your from it is, but please, speak for yourself, stop generalizing. Its ignorant.

I'm sorry, its really horrible. People aren't generalizing. I have so many muslim/arabic friends that I grew up with (living in a multicultural neighborhood) that get frisked, stopped by police just because of the way they look/speak..even though they are completey Americanized and born and raised here, etc. Now they get treated like terrorists pretty much all the time, and a entire race is demonized. Pretty soon, Americans will be considered the "terrorists". It already happened to Spooky.

 

[GNG Iniquity]

Pretty soon, Americans will be considered the "terrorists". It already happened to Spooky.

Oh, damn right they will. Eventully we're all going to start rioting in the streets at the rate this country's going.

 

[gamemk]

canada was not hit because of their old-fashioned--practical--banking system.


i'll refrain from commenting on the other political talk, even though it is tempting to wade into the discussion.
people will believe what they want to believe. messed up what happened to spooky, but charge it to new info.

 

[Theme]

And you're one of those people that have no problem giving up their rights for the illusion of safety, "but please, speak for yourself." It's not ignorant of me to value my rights. If you don't value yours, don't bring the rest of us down with you.

Says who? Im not saying you should give up your rights, but when national security is at risk, you should stop being selfish. Im not speaking on terms of this issue with Spooky, but more of everything in general. I value my rights, but the issue is bigger than that of one individual, and when the security of millions more are at stake, youre still sitting here preaching about youre rights in an airport about being searched?

You do realize that none of this "extra security" hasn't actually made us any safer, right?

Really? Because I'd think twice before I try to bomb or highjack a plane after 9/11.

I'm sorry, its really horrible. People aren't generalizing. I have so many muslim/arabic friends that I grew up with (living in a multicultural neighborhood) that get frisked, stopped by police just because of the way they look/speak..even though they are completey Americanized and born and raised here, etc. Now they get treated like terrorists pretty much all the time, and a entire race is demonized. Pretty soon, Americans will be considered the "terrorists". It already happened to Spooky.

Lol thats bullshit. I myself have some muslim friends and here in Chicago, I havent heard about any unjust stops and unwarranted searches. Theres always a reason. Sure, some cops are just assholes, some are just down right racist, but youre again, generalizing. As I said, maybe in your area that shit goes on, but stop speaking as if the whole fucking country is racist.

 

[GGA soonk]

but when national security is at risk

It's not. If someone wanted in this country to do crazy shit, the southern border is wide open. Why bother with harassing airport security when you can just walk over?

Out of control. At least you feel safer.

 

[Theme]

It's not. If someone wanted in this country to do crazy shit, the southern border is wide open. Why bother with harassing airport security when you can just walk over?

So youre saying that 9/11 aint a big deal? Im not saying the border isnt a big deal, but so is situations like 9/11.

 

[Sabin]

Lol thats bullshit. I myself have some muslim friends and here in Chicago, I havent heard about any unjust stops and unwarranted searches. Theres always a reason. Sure, some cops are just assholes, some are just down right racist, but youre again, generalizing. As I said, maybe in your area that shit goes on, but stop speaking as if the whole fucking country is racist.

yea, I don't know what I'm talking about. I've only traveled to every major city in the US, and around the world for fighting games. I'm just talking out of my ass here and generalizing my area with the rest of the US.

 

[Shady]

I really, really wish you lived in my area so you can see what kind of BS the cops/feds get away with on a daily basis.
It's already bad enough that we can be detained at the border without warrant, rhyme or reason, but I just personally cant sit right with what pretty much amounted to legalized/government theft of his equipment and his livelihood.

I mean what when the TSA agent is cupping your genitals when youre int he US, are you just going to say "theyre doing their job?" lol. It can, and does happen on a regular basis here.

Like I said man, I don't see the full side of the argument and I can't even begin to understand how exactly it feels being who I am and from where I am. So I'm sorry if anything I said sounded wrong or ignorant to you. I was just trying to consider both sides of the coin in the argument. And yes, from the beginning I was still on sp00ky's side about the confiscation bullshit. As for the economy argument, the shit still hasn't hit the fan yet. That will come and that will be felt.


As for the rest of the people and your arguments, I am from Eastern Europe originally and you can argue all you want about different aspects of US government and law enforcement procedures etc. it will never get worse than the shit I've seen back home. Where a nurse won't even switch my grandfathers IV unless we slip her some dollars on top of her salary (yeah, she won't even do her job unless you pay her more to do it) where a cop will pull you over for no other reason than just because he got hungry and he figured he'd slap a quick one on you, make you pay out of that ticket so he can get something to eat. Where the mayor will take the city's money dedicated to improving it or say cleaning the roads of snow for the winter and will just go to the Maldives or some shit while no one in the city can even get out of the driveway to go to work. Where the monthly pension for your grandparents is not even enough to eat for 2 weeks. So trust me, no matter how bad it is, and how much worse it might get economically or with any other issue, there are places out there where people fucking dream night and day to get the fuck out and never look back.

 

[Sabin]

don't worry i wasnt offended at all.

as for the police state being worse in other countries, yes i agree. part of the reason i freak out so much is because it is slowly heading in the direction that you described little by little (though not that severe yet)

 

[Shadowfire]

Certain guidelines and regulations warrant that they confiscate the equipment. And thanks to the Patriot Act, this is made easier. Copout? Stop being naive. While I agree that 'two brown people talking about blowing shit up in MK' is ridiculous grounds to go on, but what if it was a real threat? Better safe than sorry. Youre one of the people saying "OH THEIR MOLESTING OUR KIDS AND US IN AIRPORTS!" right? Well, I'll take molestation any day over an unsafe and unsecure plane ride. You make it out like the police state is that bad... maybe where your from it is, but please, speak for yourself, stop generalizing. Its ignorant.

I'm going to avoid being vitriolic by harping on just how hypocritical and naive that is, and instead point out that the "increased" TSA security is a scare tactic intended to change the public dialogue rather than protect citizens. This has been admitted by leaked correspondence between TSA officials (can't find the citation right now).

This would be egregious enough if it weren't for the fact it is also totally ineffective. For one, they can't do a thing about explosives kept inside a person's body: http://www.businessinsider.com/tsa-airport-scanners-wouldnt-catch-an-implant-bomber-2011-7

A plan involving an implanted or swallowed bomb would not be out of the question or even difficult to execute for someone that was intending to die in the blast anyway. It's worth noting that even Israel doesn't use body scanners due to how ineffective they are.

For another, think about it in practical terms; Terrorists hijack planes because they are an effective way to draw attention and scare the public. The problem with stopping them from getting on planes is the fact that a bomb detonated inside an enclosed, crowded building (like an airport security lineup) would cause many, many more casualties than a single destroyed passenger jet. If someone set out to do that, you could catch them in the act with a 100% effective, error-proof and privacy respecting scanner (which doesn't exist) and it still wouldn't matter.

As I said, maybe in your area that shit goes on, but stop speaking as if the whole fucking country is racist.

Look up the controversy surrounding the so-called "ground zero mosque" and tell us again that you don't think there are an absurd number of racist Americans.

As for the rest of the people and your arguments, I am from Eastern Europe originally and you can argue all you want about different aspects of US government and law enforcement procedures etc. it will never get worse than the shit I've seen back home. Where a nurse won't even switch my grandfathers IV unless we slip her some dollars on top of her salary (yeah, she won't even do her job unless you pay her more to do it) where a cop will pull you over for no other reason than just because he got hungry and he figured he'd slap a quick one on you, make you pay out of that ticket so he can get something to eat. Where the mayor will take the city's money dedicated to improving it or say cleaning the roads of snow for the winter and will just go to the Maldives or some shit while no one in the city can even get out of the driveway to go to work. Where the monthly pension for your grandparents is not even enough to eat for 2 weeks. So trust me, no matter how bad it is, and how much worse it might get economically or with any other issue, there are places out there where people fucking dream night and day to get the fuck out and never look back.

And this is exactly why the thought of Ron Paul's vision of a regulation-free America terrifies me.

 

[GGA soonk]

So youre saying that 9/11 aint a big deal? Im not saying the border isnt a big deal, but so is situations like 9/11.

It was a big deal, but it was 10 years ago. You should probably stop living in fear. The government loves people like you. You probably think the FBI was doing a good job providing "terrorists" with fake bombs then thwarting their fake bomb attempts. Or maybe you're even more afraid of potential terrorist threats that aren't there.

 

[Theme]

yea, I don't know what I'm talking about. I've only traveled to every major city in the US, and around the world for fighting games. I'm just talking out of my ass here and generalizing my area with the rest of the US.

I didnt say you dont know what youre talking about. Have you been to Chicago? As I said, sure, some people are just racist, but not everyone is. Youre thinking about a major of the population and thats just ridiculous.

I'm going to avoid being vitriolic by harping on just how hypocritical and naive that is, and instead point out that the "increased" TSA security is a scare tactic intended to change the public dialogue rather than protect citizens. This has been admitted by leaked correspondence between TSA officials (can't find the citation right now).

I dont know anything about that, so I'm going to refrain from commenting until learn more, but as for the Mosque:

Look up the controversy surrounding the so-called "ground zero mosque" and tell us again that you don't think there are an absurd number of racist Americans.

Thats just some of the population bro. I am pro-mosque. I think its ignorant to alienate a whole population just because of their beliefs and because of a few extremists. I'm sure there are millions more who would agree with me, yourself included... That just means youre just looking at the bad side. You think all cops are corrupt or racist? My cousin is a cop, and from what I know (and hope) he isnt racist nor is his friends and colleagues. He doesnt go around stopping people without probable cause nor does he discriminate.

It was a big deal, but it was 10 years ago. You should probably stop living in fear. The government loves people like you. You probably think the FBI was doing a good job providing "terrorists" with fake bombs then thwarting their fake bomb attempts. Or maybe you're even more afraid of potential terrorist threats that aren't there.

I dont live in fear. Hell, I dont even remember much of that day, considering I was only 9 or 10. Stop being condescending, cant you discuss it civilly?

 

[Shadowfire]

hats just some of the population bro. I am pro-mosque. I think its ignorant to alienate a whole population just because of their beliefs and because of a few extremists. I'm sure there are millions more who would agree with me, yourself included... That just means youre just looking at the bad side. You think all cops are corrupt or racist? My cousin is a cop, and from what I know (and hope) he isnt racist nor is his friends and colleagues. He doesnt go around stopping people without probable cause nor does he discriminate.

I wasn't accusing you or people you know, or saying everyone feels that way. I was pointing out how the number of people who do is not insignificant enough to be disregarded.

More to the point; 9/11 was not caused by a lack of airport security. Something similar could have been achieved by an organized terror attack in any multitude of ways. 9/11 was caused by imperialistic foreign policy, and an ongoing pattern of America installing and supporting dictatorial regimes in 3rd world countries which have natural resources or military advantages they want. A change in that attitude would improve security far beyond any of the showy, temporary measures that politicians are turning to.

 

[Sabin]

I didnt say you dont know what youre talking about. Have you been to Chicago? As I said, sure, some people are just racist, but not everyone is. Youre thinking about a major of the population and thats just ridiculous.

When did I ever even come close to saying that everyone is racist? I didn't say that, either. Also, Have I been to Chicago? No less than 20+ times in the last 10 years for Jason Wilson's midwest championships, lol. I also have one of my best friends as a police officer. He is not racist at all either (from Guyana, actually.) Doesn't mean my opinion changes in the slightest. I know there are good people in government man.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Cops in NY (I'm sure all over the globe too) generally do discriminate, it's common knowledge. Mostly against the younger minority crowd in certain areas. TBH all you have to do is stand out to them and they can possibly target you regardless of race. I've been treated unfairly at times along with a lot of people I know. It's just how it is.