General/Other - Kotal Kahn (OLD) Kotal Kahn Pre-Release General Discussion Thread

[ColdSpine]

Ive been playing kotal exclusively for 5 days now, here is my quick review for his variations:


- blood god: seems hard and has no tools to open people up except for taking huge risks, tho its pretty confusing for the opponent sometimes since ur keeping the screen busy with buffs and sun beams. Overall, u cant make ur strings safe unless u use ex projectile. Kinda meh, but im really interested in seeing how people utilize this variation!


- sun god: i REALLY wanted to love this variation since the character seems to be built around it. at the start it was fun landing those command grabs as enders in comboa for them to stack up and gain back health whenever i wish. But after a few days i realize its not enough since my brother plays heavy rush down characters and he always seemed to pressure me and chip the shit out of me or i have to take risks and eat full combos. again, u cant make strings safe. I just really wish if they made command grab combo in strings so u can have a good mind game, weakest of the variations imho.

- war god: this is where the fun begins. Just the simple sight of kotal holdin that giant ass sword striked fear in my brother's heart lol. Good mixups, cancellable sword sheningans, overhead, low, nice enders for combos. It seems the most viable variation since u get to keep the sun beam and sacrifice. Also, u can make ur strings safe by ending with that sword cancellable move and ur at +.

Then again, this is just a 5 days quick review and i really hope that iam WRONG, coz i love this character and i understand that he is a main whif punisher. But at the moment the game seems way too fast to space out or out footsie any character especially with the running button and interactables.

Oh one last thing, slow normals make it hard to punish anything below 10-


sorry for writing too much!

 

[regulas]

Command grabs in MKX have the same rules as in Injustice: can't combo into them if the opponent is grounded, but you can juggle into them if the opponent is already airborne. So if you find a hit and pop the opponent up, yes, you can connect the grab. And by the way, the same is true for regular grabs! All regular normal grabs can be juggled into. I'm sure you've seen juggle into grab ex into restand, but that ex is only to get the restand, it's not necessary to make the throw connect in the first place.

So that includes not being able to hit if you cancel on block for anything? Someone I know who got it early said that they were able to do something like B1,2~Cgrab and it connected if they blocked, but I havn't a clue if they were correct or not.

 

[Pterodactyl]

I feel satisfied for being loyal to my early pick of War God when it was first shown.

Heh.

 

[UltraDavid]

So that includes not being able to hit if you cancel on block for anything? Someone I know who got it early said that they were able to do something like B1,2~Cgrab and it connected if they blocked, but I havn't a clue if they were correct or not.

Same thing as in Injustice! Some strings can tick into command grab on block, some can't because they cause too much blockstun. I don't know if back 1 2 can tick into grab but I don't have any reason to doubt that, that'd be cool if so. I tried down 1 xx grab and it worked on block, which is nice because like I said down 1 is tied for the fastest normal in the game.

 

[regulas]

Awesome, cause it feels kind of like that may be the way to make sun god most effective then if you can mix it into strings. If you can instead do another string hit you'd have a proper mix-up that could be hard to defend against.

 

[PND OmegaK]

Just saw some stream footage of his alt costume in war god and it looked beast.

 

[Jdizzle31]

Hopefully once the game is released to the masses we can change the opinions of the testers.

what have the testers said? really curious.

 

[volkmair]

I'm pretty new to MK and have been playing around with Kotal Kahn, while an interesting character I'm having problems with how slow his attacks seem to be making him seem to be not fast enough to punish anything unless its super unsafe. Is this an actual thing with Kotal or just me not being used to how things work in MK?

 

[tjcombowins]

Hopefully once the game is released to the masses we can change the opinions of the testers.

just wanted to come in here and say django is badass

 

[regulas]

I'm pretty new to MK and have been playing around with Kotal Kahn, while an interesting character I'm having problems with how slow his attacks seem to be making him seem to be not fast enough to punish anything unless its super unsafe. Is this an actual thing with Kotal or just me not being used to how things work in MK?

Check out frame data for deciding what/how to punish to be sure your using the fast moves. Note that a lot of things in MKX are very safe so you might not get a real punish in many many cases, but at minium you should be able to counter-attack. You should also be able to do fast pokes in thoery in a lot of cases if not real punish.

 

[sPaB RoG]

My Day 1 Kotal Kahn Video. Max Damage in their including the 71% combo AND more.

 

[Pterodactyl]

Hold the God damn phone...

War God's MB overhead gave him an extra hit at the end that knocked down, when did they change it to a pop-up?

 

[regulas]

Hold the God damn phone...

War God's MB overhead gave him an extra hit at the end that knocked down, when did they change it to a pop-up?

I think it always has, it's the other overhead looking one that hits mid and doesn't pop-up. Also I don't think it's a big pop-up, maybe enough to start a combo but not nesisarily to continue one.

 

[regulas]

My Day 1 Kotal Kahn Video. Max Damage in their including the 71% combo AND more.

Whats the highest damage you got out of each form without pre-buffing before the start of the combos?

 

[sPaB RoG]

Whats the highest damage you got out of each form without pre-buffing before the start of the combos?

I think about like 45% in the War God version, two bars, maybe more. Using the MB Projectile is good because it does like 16 damage on hit. gotta land it before it scales though, easy to hit confirm into it too

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

I spent a lot of time with Kotal while practicing for Fatal 8! He's awesome, can't wait to play more.

The highest damage combo I got in blood god was 74% with 3 bars! But you can get 60% with 1 bar, which is probably more reasonable.

As for whether doing a combo with damage totem and blood sacrifice (the damage buff) already activated is practical, you can actually activate both in one combo. Toward 1 back 2 xx totem, juggle down1 xx ex antiair grab (ground bounces), toward 2, toward 1 back 2 xx blood sacrifice. If you manage to land a hit right after, this combo plus the 60-74% variations will just about kill heh. Note that you can also end this combo with sunlight that can either be meaty on the opponent to drain life or on yourself if you need to get some life back.

For the red health regen totem, I tried finding a variation on the above combo that would let me continue it long enough to guarantee that the totem would give health back before the opponent could get up and approach me, but I couldn't. Hopefully with more time in the future we'll be able to do this.

Don't sleep on the defense totem though, it makes a big difference. For example, blood sacrifice usually takes 10% of Kotal's health, but with the defense totem out it only takes iirc 6.60%. So I think I might want defense totem out if I'm just hanging out in neutral just in case I get hit. Activation of any totem is only like 30 frames or so in total, so it's not a huge commitment. The bigger problem is that you can't have two totems out at once, so if you have defense totem out and then find a hit, oh well, you can't get damage or life totem out until after defense totem expires.

Parry just gives you huge plus frames, so you can start big combos out of it. This is huge for Kotal because his mixups in blood god are kinda crappy, so opening opponents up for this giant damage is not so easy. Parry gives you a way to open people up even while you're on the defensive. This is extra important because he has zero good armored moves in blood god. If you're being pressured heavily in blood god, it's basically parry or nothing.

War god is his best early variation imo. The sword gives really good range, space control, and mixups. There's a 2/3 screen overhead that chops through the air to knock down jumpers, a big sweeping low, and a swipe into an unblockable ground pound, but you can cancel before the unblockable's animation starts by holding up to be safe from neutral jumps and armored moves. He can also throw his sword with pretty slow startup on the regular version but nicer on the ex. Btw with sacrifice buff, ex sword throw does some crazy amount like 30%, I dunno. Like a silly amount heh. Anyway this variation gives him his best mixups as well as his best armored moves, since all of the sword specials have armor on ex. Ex overhead does 2 hits which is important because that means it beats armored moves itself and it causes a ground bounce into big damage.

Sun god was disappointing to me because of the way the command grab works. It does more damage each time it's landed in a round, up to a nice like 20-25% or so iirc, but it starts out at iirc 7%, something really weak. And it lets you cash out for some percentage of meter or life, but you need to spend an ex meter to get more life. It's very important to sun god's strategy to land the command grab 3 times because otherwise it doesn't do good damage and doesn't cash out for good enough meter or health. The opponent will know that and should default to jumping or other escapes, but unfortunately the rest of his mixups aren't strong enough on their own. On top of all this, the command grab's range isn't spectacular. FerraTorr's command grab has enough range to work at round start positioning, but Kotal's is nothing like that. So, I feel that this variation is his weakest.

I'd say war god is the best, at least early, because it gives him the most options to open the opponent up, lets him worry less about being pressured, and gives him more space control. But if we can make blood god setups legit and if his footsies are good enough on their own, I can imagine blood god becoming better for at least some matchups. We'll see!

Speaking of footsies, his normals have incredible reach and hitboxes. Toward 2 is that big launcher. It's not safe, but it crushed through all the buttons I tried it against and it antiairs into huge damage from the right spot. Toward 1 works from about the same range, and the toward 1 back 2 string is cancelable, unlike toward 2, so it's important in footsies. Back 1 is a bit safer in footsies and has good range. Stand 4 is a huge boot that antiairs and pops the opponent up. Down 4 is like a Ryu crouching medium kick looking thing, great speed and hitbox. Down 1 is only 5 frames on startup, which ties it for fastest normal in the game. The downside is that his big midrange starters are unsafe on block. Part of why I like war god is that it lets you cancel toward 1 back 2 into sword for relative safety on block. Without it, I think he's probably more of a whiff punish character than an active pressure character.

So he seems quite varied, which is great. Blood god is weak mixups and defense but giant damage/extra life in the neutral game. War god is more midrange control, better mixups, and safer defense but less damage. Sun god is... I dunno, kind of in between in a way that I don't think is very strong. I first looked at Kotal because I love command grab characters but now I find myself not even liking the one variation he has a grab in, heh.

It's really tough to say how strong he'll be so early of course. I talked with some testers who don't think he's that great. But personally I feel that he has potential. I'm not sure how footsie heavy the game will be, but if it is, I think that'll benefit him because of his huge footsie range and damage. If not, maybe he'll have trouble, especially in blood god with no armored moves.

Anyway, lots and lots of fun, can't wait to get back into the lab with him!

Your write-ups are phenomenal and you're like my FGC spirit animal when it comes to favorite character archetypes, so I thank you very, very, very much.

 

[Pterodactyl]

I think it always has, it's the other overhead looking one that hits mid and doesn't pop-up. Also I don't think it's a big pop-up, maybe enough to start a combo but not nesisarily to continue one.

In that combo video it straight up goes through the opponent and ground bounces but in the early footage it did this:

 

[sPaB RoG]

^^ thats the buzz saw, different move. its not an overhead, but its only -4, you can string into that all day safely. The overhead I did hit on the 2nd hit which is a pop up

 

[Pterodactyl]

That's weird they both look so similar then.

 

[just_2swift]

Been using this one a lot lately but, fuck it.

Blood God without a doubt will have the highest potential damage, the trade off is that you'll definitely have to work for it harder than the other two variations.

They never showed it or said anything about it I don't think, but Sun God's grab is unblockable right(some character's command grabs only become unblockable with meter)? What does the MB version of it look like?

Django skin for erron black?

 

[Khaoz77]

Holy shit...

A lot of good information for my training session tomorrow, me and some schoolmates are going to play the game and train together, im so hyped!

Kotal is basically a Tekken character, emphasis on spacing and whiff punishing, and taking risk in order to command and change the pace of the match. I love the fact that he has these management options like a damage buff for health, it makes you really think about the match and makes you a more aware player.

As Kotal players, we have to become a wall, and take away options with exceptional fundemental play. After that can we really divulge into totem setups and optimizing Sun God throws. Kotal looking like on of those characters that will take time before he is considered a real threat but until then, we have to take it a bit slow and probably get bodied... a lot.

 

[just_2swift]

Holy shit...

A lot of good information for my training session tomorrow, me and some schoolmates are going to play the game and train together, im so hyped!

Kotal is basically a Tekken character, emphasis on spacing and whiff punishing, and taking risk in order to command and change the pace of the match. I love the fact that he has these management options like a damage buff for health, it makes you really think about the match and makes you a more aware player.

As Kotal players, we have to become a wall, and take away options with exceptional fundemental play. After that can we really divulge into totem setups and optimizing Sun God throws. Kotal looking like on of those characters that will take time before he is considered a real threat but until then, we have to take it a bit slow and probably get bodied... a lot.

Lol you know nothing of TEKKEN

 

[volkmair]

How atypical an MK character is Kotal, as he seems to be all normals and strings with none of his specials outside of War God being any use for offence being buffs or so slow that they need a setup to use?

 

[Tony at Home]

IIRC...

F2 was safe according to frame data. Perhaps I missed a patch or something?

Im playing Sun God.

B1 and its extensions appear to be his best strings. Crazy good range. Also, B14 (the leg sweep) looks like it leaves to good grab setups.

I think B122 is punishable, but Im not sure by what percentage of the cast. At least by full combo.

 

[Khaoz77]

Lol you know nothing of TEKKEN

I will deathfist you