The Zoning Academy (Mortal Kombat X Edition)

[SaltShaker]

I agree.

From what I have seen, Mortal Kombat X is similar to Injustice except in the following ways.

1. You can run and apply 50/50 mix ups very quickly. (Why some 50/50 mix ups are safe is beyond my comprehension).
2. Defensive options have deteriorated.
3. Lack of "space control" characters like Aquaman, Sinestro, and Zod.

As a result, you have a fighting in which all players do is run and do 50/50 mix ups, which is how Sonic Fox won tonight.



Kano's Cybernetic variation lists the knife toss as having 11 frames of start up, -10 recovery frames on block (at point blank range), and +10 on hit (at point blank range). It also hits mid. EX version hits three times, starts up in 8 frames, and provides a +6 block advantage (at point blank range). In terms of frame data, the knife toss (in Cybernetic) has to be the best projectile in the game. It is kind of like a fear blast that hits mid.

Kenshi, Liu Kang, Quan Chi, and Shinnok have potential too, but I do not have access to the game yet, so I have not explored them.

What I find hilarious is that Erron Black is not the only one with safe 50/50's for combos and mixups. Just wait until everyone has the game and starts exploring these characters. It's much much worse. Just from simply testing things there are a few characters with safe 50/50's and I found a 1 meter Batgirl-esque safe loop with one character. This isn't even my playstyle so I can imagine what other people will find.

Meanwhile so much of the zoning is unsafe on block, has unnecessarily large recovery, etc. It will take absolute focus and precision to zone in MKX, while people can pick up certain characters and just make you guess up or down while they take your bar away. Ridiculous.


Also, what I find the most ironic, for all you "nothing is wrong people" out there I have one simple question. Why is it not ok to have fast recovery, block adv, frame traps at mid to full screen, but it is ok to have frame traps and safe 50/50's that lead to full combos at close distance?

I've asked this so many times and have yet to get a legit answer.

 

[Obmil]

Zoning Predator main

 

[Shark Tank]

What I find hilarious is that Erron Black is not the only one with safe 50/50's for combos and mixups. Just wait until everyone has the game and starts exploring these characters. It's much much worse. Just from simply testing things there are a few characters with safe 50/50's and I found a 1 meter Batgirl-esque safe loop with one character. This isn't even my playstyle so I can imagine what other people will find.

Meanwhile so much of the zoning is unsafe on block, has unnecessarily large recovery, etc. It will take absolute focus and precision to zone in MKX, while people can pick up certain characters and just make you guess up or down while they take your bar away. Ridiculous.


Also, what I find the most ironic, for all you "nothing is wrong people" out there I have one simple question. Why is it not ok to have fast recovery, block adv, frame traps at mid to full screen, but it is ok to have frame traps and safe 50/50's that lead to full combos at close distance?

I've asked this so many times and have yet to get a legit answer.

Is that with or without the "day 1" patch?

 

[SaltShaker]

Is that with or without the "day 1" patch?

There was a patch it made me download. There might be another one on Tuesday, not sure. While it might impact certain aspects of the game, I highly doubt the playstyle mechanics they've implemented is one of them.

 

[Shark Tank]

There was a patch it made me download. There might be another one on Tuesday, not sure. While it might impact certain aspects of the game, I highly doubt the playstyle mechanics they've implemented is one of them.

Well I'm mainly concerned with the frame data on chucking plasma. It seems it can be helped if what you say is that they recover too long, their 50/50's, at least in the way that NRS does it's oye old classic jailing except for block inputs probably not. Although making some - might help.

 

[d3v]

Finally, a thread in that recognizes that 2D fighting games are best played when zoning and space control are involved.

 

[SaltShaker]

Kano's Cybernetic variation lists the knife toss as having 11 frames of start up, -10 recovery frames on block (at point blank range), and +10 on hit (at point blank range). It also hits mid. EX version hits three times, starts up in 8 frames, and provides a +6 block advantage (at point blank range). In terms of frame data, the knife toss (in Cybernetic) has to be the best projectile in the game. It is kind of like a fear blast that hits mid.

Kenshi, Liu Kang, Quan Chi, and Shinnok have potential too, but I do not have access to the game yet, so I have not explored them.

I've been exploring the zoning nonstop. I've got 13 hours and counting in the practice room (lol).

Really check out Shinnok Necro, Kano, and Kenshi. They're about as far as zoning can take you without getting bodied from other weaknesses or too much rushdown/50/50's/other Bs overflowing in the game.

I'm liking Necro Shinnok more and more. A lot of potential there.

 

[SaltShaker]

Well I'm mainly concerned with the frame data on chucking plasma. It seems it can be helped if what you say is that they recover too long, their 50/50's, at least in the way that NRS does it's oye old classic jailing except for block inputs probably not. Although making some - might help.

Yea there isn't much in the way of MK9 Freddy/Kenshi zoning in this game.

With the exception of Shinnok and Kano, the rest of the cast has hella negative frames on their zoning tools, while everyone has super fast runs and some sort of "kick your ass up close" tools.

 

[Conflict_90]

What I find hilarious is that Erron Black is not the only one with safe 50/50's for combos and mixups. Just wait until everyone has the game and starts exploring these characters. It's much much worse. Just from simply testing things there are a few characters with safe 50/50's and I found a 1 meter Batgirl-esque safe loop with one character. This isn't even my playstyle so I can imagine what other people will find.

Meanwhile so much of the zoning is unsafe on block, has unnecessarily large recovery, etc. It will take absolute focus and precision to zone in MKX, while people can pick up certain characters and just make you guess up or down while they take your bar away. Ridiculous.


Also, what I find the most ironic, for all you "nothing is wrong people" out there I have one simple question. Why is it not ok to have fast recovery, block adv, frame traps at mid to full screen, but it is ok to have frame traps and safe 50/50's that lead to full combos at close distance?

I've asked this so many times and have yet to get a legit answer.

You took the words right out of my mouth. If its one thing I learned. Its that they will find something to complain about.

 

[ChrispyCream7]

I've been exploring the zoning nonstop. I've got 13 hours and counting in the practice room (lol).

Really check out Shinnok Necro, Kano, and Kenshi. They're about as far as zoning can take you without getting bodied from other weaknesses or too much rushdown/50/50's/other Bs overflowing in the game.

I'm liking Necro Shinnok more and more. A lot of potential there.

What's the frame data on the Necro exclusive moves?

 

[SaltShaker]

What's the frame data on the Necro exclusive moves?

Claw ground attack- Mid, 20f start up, -19 on block, 44 recovery, 9.6% damage. EX is -10 on block, pops up for combo, 8.10% damage. Tracking special.

Slam hand- 57f start up, unblockable, 32 recovery, 8% damage. EX more damage at 12%.

Finger flick- 21f start up, -3 on block, 10% damage. Leaves them full screen on hit even at point blank range. Notable 2.25% damage on block. EX Version is 27f start up, +6 on block, 15% damage. Leaves them 3/4 of the screen if point blank, full screen anywhere else. 2.88% damage on block.

 

[Relaxedstate]

Death to all rushdown fools. We will revitalize zoning in this game.

I'll be playing Shinnok, Kenshi, and Predator (who hopefully will have an ia projectile with fast recovery)

@General M2Dave

 

[ATP2014]

DLC had a strong zoning contingent in both MK9 and Injustice, and will likely happen again.

 

[M2Dave]

Also, what I find the most ironic, for all you "nothing is wrong people" out there I have one simple question. Why is it not ok to have fast recovery, block adv, frame traps at mid to full screen, but it is ok to have frame traps and safe 50/50's that lead to full combos at close distance?

I've asked this so many times and have yet to get a legit answer.

There is no legit answer. The majority of people in this community are scrubs who hate zoning.

Yea there isn't much in the way of MK9 Freddy/Kenshi zoning in this game.

With the exception of Shinnok and Kano, the rest of the cast has hella negative frames on their zoning tools, while everyone has super fast runs and some sort of "kick your ass up close" tools.

According to the frame data, Liu Kang's fireballs do not seem too bad in the Flame Fist variation. I think he may have a safe armored attack and a parry. In general, he appears to be versatile character in that variation.

 

[ShaolinGunFu]

I've asked this so many times and have yet to get a legit answer.

Close distance attacks outside of pokes should not be positive either, and mixups esp should not be safe. But if projectiles are too safe on block, it prevents even other zoners to shoot back making it too momentum/offensive based. Look at week one deathstroke mirror matches for example.
Zoners should be using projectiles to get in or lure the opponent in, a means to an end. There shouldnt be any character so broken that you can just run and throw projectiles without doing anything else. The Injustice series should stay zoners among us, and let the mk series be the opposite.

 

[M2Dave]

The Injustice series should stay zoners among us, and let the mk series be the opposite.

"Zoners Among Us"? Right. When the two best characters in the game both have teleport special moves. One of which is safe on block.

Get out of this thread, you fool.

 

[SaltShaker]

There is no legit answer. The majority of people in this community are scrubs who hate zoning.



According to the frame data, Liu Kang's fireballs do not seem too bad in the Flame Fist variation. I think he may have a safe armored attack and a parry. In general, he appears to be versatile character in that variation.

You're right I forgot about Liu. He looks really strong in MKX, and his zoning is pretty good. His fireballs do 10.50% damage when his fist are buffed, and the data on them in general is really really good. I hate that they removed his ability to consistently IAF, but he seems so strong this time around that he won't need it.

 

[Voodoo]

There is no legit answer. The majority of people in this community are scrubs who hate zoning.



According to the frame data, Liu Kang's fireballs do not seem too bad in the Flame Fist variation. I think he may have a safe armored attack and a parry. In general, he appears to be versatile character in that variation.

His dragonfire variation fireballs seem to be even faster than the flamefist ones.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

I've been exploring the zoning nonstop. I've got 13 hours and counting in the practice room (lol).

Really check out Shinnok Necro, Kano, and Kenshi. They're about as far as zoning can take you without getting bodied from other weaknesses or too much rushdown/50/50's/other Bs overflowing in the game.

I'm liking Necro Shinnok more and more. A lot of potential there.

What about full auto jacqui, marksman erron black, or heavy weapons jax? I don't have the game... all I know is from the streams. Are they all hella negative on block?

 

[SaltShaker]

His dragonfire variation fireballs seem to be even faster than the flamefist ones.

No they aren't.

DragonFire Fireball- 30f start up, -24 on block, -3 hit adv.

Dragon Low Fireball- 11f start up, -19 on block, +7 on hit.



Flame Fist Fireball- 10f start up, -16 on block, +5 on hit.

Flame Fist Low Fireball- 11f start up, -15 on block, +6 on hit.


Flamefist Fireballs are definitely better. DragonFire has a better air fireball, but that's irrelevant since IAF strategies are dead in MKX.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

lmao, negative on hit!

 

[Shark Tank]

Night and day

 

[Voodoo]

No they aren't.

DragonFire Fireball- 30f start up, -24 on block, -3 hit adv.

Dragon Low Fireball- 11f start up, -19 on block, +7 on hit.



Flame Fist Fireball- 10f start up, -16 on block, +5 on hit.

Flame Fist Low Fireball- 11f start up, -15 on block, +6 on hit.


Flamefist Fireballs are definitely better. DragonFire has a better air fireball, but that's irrelevant since IAF strategies are dead in MKX.

Oh, I was just talking out of my ass. I was trying to eyeball it from the kk breakdown.

 

[ShaolinGunFu]

"Zoners Among Us"? Right. When the two best characters in the game both have teleport special moves. One of which is safe on block.

Get out of this thread, you fool.

The reason the Anti-Zoner DLC chars are the best in the game is because almost every other good character in injustice is some sort of zoner. Its like rock paper scissors (rushdown, zoning, anti-zoning) if you can't sympathize with the rushdown chars that can't move forward on you, don't expect pity when theres characters that you can't move away from.

Let me also clarify that MMH is not a mere anti-zoner, he has enough tools to make 3 seperate characters with and was OP in every regard

 

[SaltShaker]

What about full auto jacqui, marksman erron black, or heavy weapons jax? I don't have the game... all I know is from the streams. Are they all hella negative on block?

Jacqui's Full Auto really isn't really for zoning. She has Deathstroke's rifle move in a "Jacqui version", the EX of it as well. It's pretty safe. The air rockets are more of a combo tool than a zoning one, though they can AA. The ground rocket is for mixups with EX and corner combos, not really zoning. She is a rushdown, 50/50 mixups, safe options character.

Jax. His moveset combined with the Heavy Weapons does have some sneaky zoning in there. He can zone some matches out in this variation, but the start up is too slow to go into a zoning war against an actual zoning character.

Erron Black. You saw Sonic Fox today? Yea. That's how he plays. Don't let the cowboy look fool you. Only people Erron is zoning is characters who are weak against zoning, but that's it. I don't know why some of his zoning tools are so slow, why coin shot doesn't hit overhead not even in EX, why he has to go into stance to shoot guns in gunslinger. I don't know why. I just don't know why.