What Does MKX Benefit From Having A Block Button?

[Eji1700]

Just for the record, some people are pointing out that a block button exists because of moves that would seem to be "overpowered" or "nonsensical" in a back-to-block system. I feel that stuff like skill-ceilings and such shouldn't be factors as to why a block button exists.

What? It could easily break the balance of the game. I'm not going to comment on injustice scorp, but easy 50/50's are rarely good for a games health, and that's what MK teleports in a back to block game would often be. MvC3 phoenix is one of the only characters who can pull that sort of shit, and she's got a crapton of downsides just to balance it out.

 

[NobilityV3]

Genuinely asking, why do you love back-to-block so much? I can use your same exact argument for why you dislike a dedicated block button.

If you combine the mechanics of the run and block button it makes sense that the game doesn't want you to hold BACK and stop your pressure in the rushdown game.

 

[STRYKIE]

What? It could easily break the balance of the game. I'm not going to comment on injustice scorp, but easy 50/50's are rarely good for a games health, and that's what MK teleports in a back to block game would often be. MvC3 phoenix is one of the only characters who can pull that sort of shit, and she's got a crapton of downsides just to balance it out.

You say this concerning a game that thrives on 50/50s, most of which are safe... and Scorpion's were not, on top of the economic circumstances that you would realistically have to have at least 1 bar of meter or trait ready before cashing in if you were not confident that you could condition them to guess wrong.

My last comment on the matter because I don't want the thread to go off track of intended discussion.

 

[Doombawkz]

Just for the record, some people are pointing out that a block button exists because of moves that would seem to be "overpowered" or "nonsensical" in a back-to-block system. I feel that stuff like skill-ceilings and such shouldn't be factors as to why a block button exists.

Its not so much the existence of a skill ceiling as it is there is no reason to make it back-to-block.

Also back-to-block is a defensive centered movement, it causes you to scoot backwards in order to block because holding back creates that motion. Especially with all of the teleports, it would be nearly impossible to approach some characters.

Give a block button and you can give the same effect but allow for forward movement to become a viable option.

 

[LesMore]

Genuinely asking.

From what I can tell, every traditional Mortal Kombat has had a block button. The way I look at it, a game has a mechanic for the sole reason of having some benefit to gameplay. However when I put my mind to it, I can't even think of a reason as to what a block button actually does for gameplay (aside from eliminating cross-ups and such). Couldn't these game's be playable with a Back-to-Block system? In my head, I don't see how any existing mechanics are changed by this system. My initial thoughts even led me to believe that the games would actually benefit from that system since more game mechanics are being introduced. However, I don't see my myself as an "expert" when it comes to Mortal Kombat fighting game mechanics (or even general fighting game mechanics) so I'm most likely thinking about this from the wrong angle.

Can anyone more knowledgeable then myself shed some light on this? What does MKX benefit from having a block button?

If you ask me it is because of the teleport mechanics in this game. It keeps random teleport from blowing you up every time you move forward.

 

[Eh SnOwY]

#F*ckBack2Block.

1 reason i quit injustice

 

[Evil Canadian]

A block button allows for the moves to be the way they are. Just think back to when Scorp first got put into Injustice, his ho-hum TP punch was ridiculous in a back to block game, however totally fine in a block button game. The wide variety of teleports and other highly mobile moves in MK are only really allowed to exist because of the block button, and it is what makes the series what it is.

 

[THTB]

Juuuuuust for the record, you do realize that this conclusion was made literally 2 weeks after he was released right? And was mostly spearheaded by UsedForGlue? A great player mind you, but a serial culprit of convoluted theories. I mean, he's already attempting to draw up in-depth conclusions about Reptile in MKX from the stream shown last fucking Thursday.

Wasn't really just UFG leading the anti-Scorp stuff...a lot of players who got beat up by PL and REO pretty much were super vocal, too.

Scorpion really didn't change at all, other than losing safe options and losing his jump normals. Teleport wasn't really touched in a meaningful way other than that...it was the same teleport as before. Just now he had no way to even make it safe vs a large portion of the cast.

Anyway, block button changes a lot. Yes, cross-ups are gone in the traditional sense, but they still have a strong purpose, as you've all should have seen in MK9. There's also the benefit of not having proximity blocking, which does significantly alter how you play footsies in NRS games. It also allowed for things such as how MK9's throw mechanic worked (you could not throw an opponent in neutral crouch, but could throw them if they were crouch blocking).

It has its advantages and disadvantages. And NRS builds characters around that fact.

 

[Johnny San]

Genuinely asking, why do you love back-to-block so much?

Feel free to post where I said I loved back-to-block so much.

It could easily break the balance of the game.

Its not so much the existence of a skill ceiling as it is there is no reason to make it back-to-block.

I just feel that simply because a move makes it more difficult to play the game doesn't mean that it needs one system or the other. It's more about mechanics. Being able to move back without being put into a block state is a mechanic. Having a hard time dealing with teleports is another matter. Having one system or another should be about mechanics.

My last comment on the matter because I don't want the thread to go off track of intended discussion.

A discussion goes where it goes mate. All discussion is fine.

 

[Doombawkz]

I just feel that simply because a move makes it more difficult to play the game doesn't mean that it needs one system or the other. It's more about mechanics. Being able to move back without being put into a block state is a mechanic. Having a hard time dealing with teleports is another matter. Having one system or another should be about mechanics.

I fleshed out my post a bit ago, re-read it if you haven't.

 

[Eddy Wang]

The block button in MK is perfect, it turns mobility better and lets you block when you want to block and when you really need to block, in back2block even if later on they discovered proximity blocking, there are moves with a larger proximity block radius, those freezes the character blocking when you want to space out.

The block button also becomes technical and dificult when you're holding block and you need to retaliate against the pressure system MK offers.

I guess we had those threads once a year, still i don't understand why every year someone comes by saying MK should be b2b just because they want to jump left and right on opponents because is the only way they know how to open people up.

this is not street fighter meta, MK is a different thing, learn the meta and you're good to go.

 

[haketh]

To have the block button forces safer play. In most other games, you can be risky if you feel like the opponent cannot respond, either by forcing a cross-up or a fake cross-up. I.E. Sonicfox's bat uppercut cross-ups, which otherwise are massively unsafe, are made viable due to the difficulty in blocking.

Instead, in MK, the pressure is put on the attacker to ensure their pressure is safe. You can't just elbow charge and hope it connects because it might cross-up. This is what I feel, at least, where as in other games the defender is paying for allowing their opponent in, in this one the attacker is forced to play in a way that makes for smarter approaches.

Keeps people honest, and opens up the window for a more diverse cast where in other games it might not be possible to do the same because it would be too taxing on directional blocks.

What the fuck are you even talking about. Like seriously do you even understand fighting games outside of Bane tech?

 

[Doombawkz]

What the fuck are you even talking about

Why the block button is a thing.
Do you have anything to contribute or are you just reliving your "Bane doesn't 7-3 Grundy" days?

 

[Johnny San]

Yes, cross-ups are gone in the traditional sense, but they still have a strong purpose, as you've all should have seen in MK9.

Mind fleshing that out a bit? What I'm thinking in my head might be entirely different than to what you're saying.

I guess we had those threads once a year, still i don't understand why every year someone comes by saying MK should be b2b just because they want to jump left and right on opponents because is the only way they know how to open people up.

I'm most likely misunderstanding your post but I'm not saying MK should be back-to-block. I'm just figuring out what the block button actually does for gameplay.

 

[haketh]

Why the block button is a thing.
Do you have anything to contribute or are you just reliving your "Bane doesn't 7-3 Grundy" days?

You're explanation of things in games with B2B are so horribly flawed I fucking fear for anyone who reads this garbage & takes it seriously.

Mind fleshing that out a bit? What I'm thinking in my head might be entirely different than to what you're saying.

Crossups were still useful in MK9 for some of the same reasons they're useful in B2B games, they allowed you to mess with inputs so people wouldn't get the input they wanted & causing thigns to whiff. THTB has the best explanation for what Block Button does for MK.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Mind fleshing that out a bit? What I'm thinking in my head might be entirely different than to what you're saying.


I'm most likely misunderstanding your post but I'm not saying MK should be back-to-block. I'm just figuring out what the block button actually does for gameplay.

I think i've said it.
Not particulary saying you want back to block, yet everyone who came before you said the same thing, but later on all they wanted was b2b in MK.

 

[Enigma642]

I would like to ask the exact opposite. What is the benefit of back to block?

The usual argument is that the block button it is scrubbier because it makes defense easier. Well back to block makes offense easier. One could argue that MK players are less scrubby because they don't have easy cross-ups as a crutch.

In my opinion, neither is superior, and neither has any specific benefit or purpose, other than to provide a way to defend. Different games will have different mechanics and different styles.

 

[Doombawkz]

You're explanation of things in games with B2B are so horribly flawed I fucking fear for anyone who reads this garbage & takes it seriously.

Thats great and all but unless you can give me an actual example of what the "right" thing is, I can't really take you seriously.
Especially considering how wrong you've been in the past, while saying the same thing.

I prefer THTB's style of actually saying whats right rather than rushing in and being like "nu-uh you're wrong" without giving me anything else of quality. Perhaps you should take a note of it.

 

[THTB]

Mind fleshing that out a bit? What I'm thinking in my head might be entirely different than what you're saying.

Crossups still give you that added pressure option because it still means there's guaranteed pressure upon having a crossup blocked. In MK, you do not turn around instantly, so your ability to avoid things in crossups is actually much more limited due to that loss of control. And because jump punches in MK9 (and MKX) are overheads, you have to block them standing, which (in MK9) allowed you to land strings on a standing opponent since jump punch cancels into strings and specials, and you were jailed into a standing block position. This meant more options for the one performing the crossup were available, usually ones that left you at more advantage or presented better chip damage opportunities.

 

[THTB]

In my opinion, neither is superior, and neither has any specific benefit or purpose, other than to provide a way to defend. Different games will have different mechanics and different styles.

 

[Johnny San]

What is the benefit of back to block?

Well, in my post, I said that mechanics have some form of benefit to gameplay. In the case of back-to-block, your introducing mechanics like cross-ups. Cross-ups introduce a game mechanic into the system. That's how it benefits the game.

Of course, speaking of "benefits" is subjective but hopefully you get my meaning.

 

[imblackjames]

The button makes it so people are forced to fight. b2b means you're constantly running away to block. With a block button youre stuck in place.

For the same reason it also lets characters with slower forward walk speeds catch up to characters with faster walk back speeds. Forcing them to block and stay still gives them a chance to catch up. Yea in this game u can run but that's not super safe to do

 

[FCP/EMP SCAR]

After seeing so many dumbass, ridiculous, super ambiguous setups in injustice with weird nonsense hitboxes, and an even weirder corner game, I'm so glad to get back to the block button, the next injustice should have one too lol..

 

[imblackjames]

It also makes it more casual/beginner friendly. It takes the guessing out of b2b high and db2b to block low. If you're paying the block button and you're standing u block high if you're crouching you're blocking low none of this crouch but not blocking nonsense

 

[Error404]

A block button gives you the ability to stand block without giving up distance . That alone makes it better in my eyes.