MILEENA'S BALL ROLL

[1man3letters]

Jesus Christ, HES SAYING THAT ALL ROLLMOVES SHOULD HAVE THE SAME EFFECT ON EX SHAKE! Not that hard to comprehend eh?

they dont beat shake for the same reason nightwolf f3 and baraka b3 are different,pretty much the same move,yet nws hits high, why?
because it needs be, just like how smoke has a advantage vs mileena/strkyer so they can beat his shake, its called balance, if everthing is the same its called bland not balanced

 

[Doctor_V]

lol i hear you guys. I love Mileena and think she has the tools to win but If ball was a low i think she can compete with the best. Maybe make the ball more punishable on block. Something like punished by combo of choice or something. Maybe that will even it out better? I guess i shouldn't go over to the Cage boards and say i think nut punch should be a low.....lol espcially now since F+32 wont go into nut punch.

 

[redeyes]

lol i hear you guys. I love Mileena and think she has the tools to win but If ball was a low i think she can compete with the best. Maybe make the ball more punishable on block. Something like punished by combo of choice or something. Maybe that will even it out better? I guess i shouldn't go over to the Cage boards and say i think nut punch should be a low.....lol espcially now since F+32 wont go into nut punch.

more punishable? it already is pretty punishable. like here rape me while i spin in your face for a bit. and she doesnt need low ball to compete with the best. did you see REO place 2nd at evo? i think shes fine the way she is. (other than the parry / ex shake thing i stated)

 

[GNG Iniquity]

:facepalm:

 

[Doctor_V]

more punishable? it already is pretty punishable. like here rape me while i spin in your face for a bit. and she doesnt need low ball to compete with the best. did you see REO place 2nd at evo? i think shes fine the way she is. (other than the parry / ex shake thing i stated)

I did and it was admirable but lets be honest, Reo is probably the best MK player and only lost EVO because of the bad match up against Kung Lao.

I don't think ball making it a low would make her broken. Her ball is punishable but only by fast specials?

 

[ZeroEffect]

Bryan... Roll should beat Shake and all parrys. Why? Because the attack hits the lower part of the hitbox where the active parry frames are missing. Lao's "roll", a normal by the way, is a kick that comes down on top of your head. Stryker's "roll" is an attack where he swings his baton upward. See the difference? Besides, Mileena's B3 loses to parries... someone explain that one.

You're a cool guy and all, but seriously man? How many times must we hear the "REO 2nd at EVO" argument? He's one of, if not the, best player right now, and people weren't ready for Mileena. Bad combination. Michelangelo even came up to me after beating me in losers finals at SJ5 and said, "Zero, you probably would've beaten me if I hadn't trained against her with Reo at evo".


As for you Doctor V... yes the move would be stupid. Why? Because it's a near full screen low combo starter. This means you'd be crouch blocking at all times. U4 would be free. Throws would be free. B3~roll/B3 EX roll would be a blind mixup. B1,4/B1~roll would be a blind mixup. See the problem? With everything else roll does, this would be far too much. Mileena would be made into a brainless scrub character. No one wants that.

Also, please read the threads already here next time before making a new one. Nothing against you, but this is probably the third discussion about roll being made a low and why it's not.

*sigh* This is why we need character specific mods. Someone close this thread please....

 

[redeyes]

only reason i brought up the Reo at evo is because he was saying ball low would make her be able to complete with the high level characters.

 

[ZeroEffect]

Bryan, fair enough. I guess I'm just tired of hearing every Mileena player here, online in chats everywhere, going on and on about this almost win. I do think Mileena can compete, but not because Reo got 2nd. Besides, post patch those matchups will change drastically.

EDIT: Actually maybe the reason they made B3 lose to parries is so that she can't get a free low combo starter on people using parries.. I dont know if Liu Kang's B3 or any other low combo starters lose to parries. If so, then it's consistent.

 

[redeyes]

Bryan, fair enough. I guess I'm just tired of hearing every Mileena player here, online in chats everywhere, going on and on about this almost win. I do think Mileena can compete, but not because Reo got 2nd. Besides, post patch those matchups will change drastically.

same here i mean reo could of taken anyone to evo and placed 2nd or 1st. why? cause hes a good player and can make anyone work.

Mileena can compete with everyone. i mean look at you. almost top 8 at SJ. you make me proud to play mil

 

[SZSR]

only reason i brought up the Reo at evo is because he was saying ball low would make her be able to complete with the high level characters.

I'm not saying she doesn't need something but wouldn't that be along the lines of giving Smoke a low hitting combo starter? It would definitely make her bad matchups better but maybe make her good matchups unbalanced.

 

[Doctor_V]

Bryan... Roll should beat Shake and all parrys. Why? Because the attack hits the lower part of the hitbox where the active parry frames are missing. Lao's "roll", a normal by the way, is a kick that comes down on top of your head. Stryker's "roll" is an attack where he swings his baton upward. See the difference? Besides, Mileena's B3 loses to parries... someone explain that one.

You're a cool guy and all, but seriously man? How many times must we hear the "REO 2nd at EVO" argument? He's one of, if not the, best player right now, and people weren't ready for Mileena. Bad combination. Michelangelo even came up to me after beating me in losers finals at SJ5 and said, "Zero, you probably would've beaten me if I hadn't trained against her with Reo at evo".


As for you Doctor V... yes the move would be stupid. Why? Because it's a near full screen low combo starter. This means you'd be crouch blocking at all times. U4 would be free. Throws would be free. B3~roll/B3 EX roll would be a blind mixup. B1,4/B1~roll would be a blind mixup. See the problem? With everything else roll does, this would be far too much. Mileena would be made into a brainless scrub character. No one wants that.

Also, please read the threads already here next time before making a new one. Nothing against you, but this is probably the third discussion about roll being made a low and why it's not.

*sigh* This is why we need character specific mods. Someone close this thread please....

I just signed up to TYM tonight lol so cut me some slack about the bringing up old stuff but i do agree with all of this. I wasn't saying mileena should get it but i believe if she did she can compete with the best fighters in the game. How about the option of taking away B+3 into roll. So mileena would have no low starter. I bet some Mileena players out there would rather have B+3 into roll then roll being a low in itself. Not to mention the punished like i said if Roll gets blocked. At least now Roll is somewhat safe against everything except fast specials.

 

[DanCock]

Mileena is one of those characters that should not be touched. Not a buff or nerf. She's on the cusp of stier in this game.

Roll should never hit low WTF, she already can do a low attack into a roll b+3 into roll.




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[ZeroEffect]

I just signed up to TYM tonight lol so cut me some slack about the bringing up old stuff but i do agree with all of this. I wasn't saying mileena should get it but i believe if she did she can compete with the best fighters in the game. How about the option of taking away B+3 into roll. So mileena would have no low starter. I bet some Mileena players out there would rather have B+3 into roll then roll being a low in itself. Not to mention the punished like i said if Roll gets blocked. At least now Roll is somewhat safe against everything except fast specials.

Well, I didn't know you were new. My bad then. Still, There are so many new treads popping up that are redundant. (There's like 3 video threads and 2 or 3 combo threads already). Roll is punishable enough as is. It's not as punishable as say, Scorpion, or Smoke's teleport, but it's still not good for her.

Mileena is one of those characters that should not be touched. Not a buff or nerf. She's on the cusp of stier in this game.

Roll should never hit low WTF, she already can do a low attack into a roll b+3 into roll.

Well considering that both Kabal and Kitana make her zoning AND in-close pressure look tame, I wouldn't say she's close to S-tier. Maybe post patch when the S-Tiers get toned down. I will say roll needs to have it's priority increased so it doesn't get stuffed by random mistimed mid/low kicks. And Pimp might be on to something with his sai damage buff idea... but meh, she really doesn't need much.

 

[rev0lver]

Well considering that both Kabal and Kitana make her zoning AND in-close pressure look tame, I wouldn't say she's close to S-tier.

I don't know about that... I don't iaf much against Mileena because I'm always afraid of the teleport kicks. Hell, I rarely take my finger off block against Mileena because she has so many options. All Kitana can do up close to pressure is d1~cutter (duck and you're fine) or a 21~cutter.

 

[Helter Skelter]

Mileena is one of those characters that should not be touched. Not a buff or nerf. She's on the cusp of stier in this game.

Roll should never hit low WTF, she already can do a low attack into a roll b+3 into roll.




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I agree that she is one of the better made characters in this game, but she definitely isn't S tier or even near it.

I think her a Scorpion are around the same level. They are both good but a hyper risky to play. Probably to riskier characters in the game. Kitana and Sonya are easily better than her. However, I don't think that changes how good of a character she is.

With all that said, Ball Roll should never hit low for every reason ZeroEffect and F0xy mentioned. Those are silly suggestions We made when we had no clue about the game. I know I did.

Real suggestions:

-Enhanced Teleport Kick should hit overhead on the second hit.
-Neckbite should leave you with more advantage.
-Enhanced Sai Shot should combo both hits full screen.

That's it.

 

[leek]

I agree that she is one of the better made characters in this game, but she definitely isn't S tier or even near it.
I think her a Scorpion are around the same level. They are both good but a hyper risky to play. Probably to riskier characters in the game.

With all that said, Ball Roll should never hit low for every reason ZeroEffect and F0xy mentioned. Thoseamsuggestions remade
When we had no clue about the game.I know I did.

Real suggestions:

-Enhanced Teleport Kick should hit overhead on the second hit.
-Neckbite should leave you with more advantage.
-Enhanced Sai Shot should combo both hits full screen.

That's it.

I agree with #2 and #3 but I don't think number 1.. If it hit's overhead, what kind of advantage would you have over the opponent on hit? It might be alright if it allowed one ball roll into B14 112 neckbite or something but I think if it did hit overhead the combo-ability should be lessened for sure. You condition them to block low with B+3 all match, and then B+3 to ex tele and get a free combo, I don't know if I agree you know?

Just my 2 cents.. but definitely I think neckbite should be more like nutpunch instead of being so neutral feeling. I swear I go into a neckbite reset only to be hit out of trying to pressure forward.. but hey that might be me. Enhanced sai should definitely combo both hits, like having more advantage on the first hit so the second doesn't get blocked, you know?

Ball roll hits high. No way it should hit low. Too much easy high low mix up like that and she might as well be Lao in 1.0 ...

 

[Velvet Sack]

Good lord. The other thread about exactly this was on the first page before this thread bumped it off.

Mileena has one, and only one, really bad matchup: Kung Lao. Everything else ranges from a manageable disadvantage (4-6) to slightly in her favor (6-4) with a few matches even more in her favor. That's totally OK.

Roll hitting low would make her the most bullshit character in the game by far. As it is, the only way to properly guard a b3 setup is to block the first hit low, then block the second hit high, as en roll leads to ~30% combos and hits overhead. Guarding it right is hard to do as it is. If ball hit low, your opponent would have to guess--purely guess--whether you were going to do regular or en roll EVERY TIME you started out with b3, which is incredibly easy to set up as an otg trap. Every time they guessed wrong, they would lose 30-45%. NAY.

Mileena is exactly as she should be right now.

 

[Helter Skelter]

Nah. You want the 'second' hit to be an overhead. You can swap between High and Low Block during the move swapping sides, anyway.
My reasoning is that Enhanced Telekick is a great move but if I spend a bar to get in and attempt to Sai Shot afterwards and make it safe. I really think it stupid that my opponent can switch to a low block and punish me with d+1 into a full combo or an uppercut regardless of if I Sai cancel.

Mileena has no armor and no decent wakeup. I can deal with that. However, that means she going to need breakers a lot. If a Mileena player wants to use their meter for something other than a breaker their shouldn't have to be punished anymore than the cost of move itself.

Making the second hit an overhead means that have to stand block. That's all.

Oh, I'm pretty sure Mileena can't combo off a grounded Telekick on hit. That would be something I really didn't know.

 

[ZeroEffect]

My reasoning is that Enhanced Telekick is a great move but if I spend a bar to get in and attempt to Sai Shot afterwards and make it safe. I really think it stupid that my opponent can switch to a low block and punish me with d+1 into a full combo or an uppercut regardless of if I Sai cancel.

Mileena has no armor and no decent wakeup. I can deal with that. However, that means she going to need breakers a lot. If a Mileena player wants to use their meter for something other than a breaker their shouldn't have to be punished anymore than the cost of move itself.

Making the second hit an overhead means that have to stand block. That's all.

Oh, I'm pretty sure Mileena can't combo off a grounded Telekick on hit. That would be something I really didn't know.

She should have at least one safe special move. I agree with that, but I don't think any non Mileena players will agree. If EX telekick was overhead and it forced a stand block, air sai is a guaranteed jail. So the move would to 6% chip and give advantage. Great for us, but I can see some arguments coming.

Good lord. The other thread about exactly this was on the first page before this thread bumped it off.

Mileena has one, and only one, really bad matchup: Kung Lao. Everything else ranges from a manageable disadvantage (4-6) to slightly in her favor (6-4) with a few matches even more in her favor. That's totally OK.

Roll hitting low would make her the most bullshit character in the game by far. As it is, the only way to properly guard a b3 setup is to block the first hit low, then block the second hit high, as en roll leads to ~30% combos and hits overhead. Guarding it right is hard to do as it is. If ball hit low, your opponent would have to guess--purely guess--whether you were going to do regular or en roll EVERY TIME you started out with b3, which is incredibly easy to set up as an otg trap. Every time they guessed wrong, they would lose 30-45%. NAY.

Mileena is exactly as she should be right now.

Velvet, I said the exact same thing a few posts up concerning her roll. We don't need to keep hashing it. As for Kung Lao, I do NOT see why he's anti-Mileena specifically. He's a bad matchup for her right now for the same reasons he beats the entire cast. Post Patch, it'll probably be Reptile and Sub Zero who are her worst thanks to them getting anti-zoning buffs.

And to whoever said Bite should give more advanatge, maybe. But not nut punch advantage. She already has a move that does that with regular telekick. She also has F3 that gives major advantage.

 

[xMiniM1]

As far as i remember Reo was going against Perfect Legend and i'd dare to say he kicked the living shit of Kung Lao wining the first set and almost the second.
So when to top players met and fought for 10k it tells me that Mileena dose really well with Hat Tiers.

Mileena doesn't need a buff, Kung Lao needs a nerf.

Her roll would be so beyond OP if it hit low. Then we'd have people crying about roll AND D4. No thanks.

 

[Velvet Sack]

Velvet, I said the exact same thing a few posts up concerning her roll. We don't need to keep hashing it.

I wanted to go into a bit more detail. But yeah, there's not much point in adding to this, especially since there is a 0% chance that it will ever happen. It just puts a bee in my damn bonnet that it gets brought up so much.