Official UMK3:TE Changelog and Discussion Thread

[tehdrewsus]

This won't work, TPU locks at 1 hit

If anyone even thinks about giving my Robo a pop-up, I will Liam Neeson them.

He NEEDS it

 

[9.95]

Let's just give everyone a 3 hit popup combo, and a ground containment move, and leave all other MU stats to their hitboxes, priorities, and sprite/character specific properties?

That's what we're going for, isnt it? Anything past a 5-5 MU is unacceptable, right?

/semi-facetious

I have no desire to argue MU numbers. Just viability and, more importantly in this game, some VARIETY of character choices. Why would anyone choose Scorpion over those two? Or even the things I've listed below?

Bro, Sheeva has BOSS damage. BOSS DAMAGE!!!

Cyrax can drop bombs and nets similarly to the way he can in MK9 now.

H.Smoke has invisibility.


My point is, like with all the new changes, Scorpion's new changes leave him almost unchanged in playability/viability. Buff the characters that need it instead of nerfing the characters that are OP first. Then make adjustments after that. THAT is why we have the public betas now. Again, what's the worst that happens? The hacker sees that something is TOO much and reverts it? It's not like it has to be permanent, but it'd be great to get changes like that out to the public to test them and give feedback.

 

[tehdrewsus]

I have no desire to argue MU numbers. Just viability and, more importantly in this game, some VARIETY of character choices. Why would anyone choose Scorpion over those two? Or even the things I've listed below?

Bro, Sheeva has BOSS damage. BOSS DAMAGE!!!

Cyrax can drop bombs and nets similarly to the way he can in MK9 now.

H.Smoke has invisibility.


My point is, like with all the new changes, Scorpion's new changes leave him almost unchanged in playability/viability. Buff the characters that need it instead of nerfing the characters that are OP first. Then make adjustments after that. THAT is why we have the public betas now. Again, what's the worst that happens? The hacker sees that something is TOO much and reverts it? It's not like it has to be permanent, but it'd be great to get changes like that out to the public to test them and give feedback.

To quote a conversation I had on PSN with @Drakonian , scorpion is a great character to play, because you have to bring your A game. No he doesn't have wild pop up combos, his base combos don't deal a lot of damage, but his anti-air punishers still give over 50%

So maybe at the end of the day, scorpion isn't a tournament viable character.
Boon even said scorpion was one of his, if not his favorite character in the franchise… Maybe scorpion was so nerfed to begin with because he didn't want scorpion to be so over picked

I will agree 100% that even with his pseudo-pop up combo, he's pretty much unchanged.we have scorpion and human smoke, there's no need to make them identical copies of each other. Unmasked and classic subzero are similar but distinctly different characters.
I would definitely agree to increasing the amount of hits before disable, or even reducing the cooldown. On a connected spear so he could go psychic spear, three hit pop up, teleport punch, spear, finisher combo.

I'm also going to say that a lot of these changes to knock opponents full screen… Jades glow kick, reptiles roundhouse combo finishers, scorpions 8+ Hit elbow… Feels very mugen like

I would like the next revision, just my opinion… To address some of the buggy are feeling play… It appears some frames are missing sometimes, somethings hit funny, damage protection ignored in some aspects…fix that stuff and give some of us a chance to play who haven't made it our full-time job to beta-test for the past couple of months… Level the playing field so we can get a feel for more than three guys opinion on characters

 

[9.95]

This won't work, TPU locks at 1 hit

If anyone even thinks about giving my Robo a pop-up, I will Liam Neeson them.

Just as bad...

Spear, TPU, aaHP, JK, Spear, SUJK, 5 hit.

 

[9.95]

To quote a conversation I had on PSN with @Drakonian , scorpion is a great character to play, because you have to bring your A game. No he doesn't have wild pop up combos, his base combos don't deal a lot of damage, but his anti-air punishers still give over 50%

So maybe at the end of the day, scorpion isn't a tournament viable character.
Boon even said scorpion was one of his, if not his favorite character in the franchise… Maybe scorpion was so nerfed to begin with because he didn't want scorpion to be so over picked

I will agree 100% that even with his pseudo-pop up combo, he's pretty much unchanged.we have scorpion and human smoke, there's no need to make them identical copies of each other. Unmasked and classic subzero are similar but distinctly different characters.
I would definitely agree to increasing the amount of hits before disable, or even reducing the cooldown. On a connected spear so he could go psychic spear, three hit pop up, teleport punch, spear, finisher combo.

I'm also going to say that a lot of these changes to knock opponents full screen… Jades glow kick, reptiles roundhouse combo finishers, scorpions 8+ Hit elbow… Feels very mugen like

I would like the next revision, just my opinion… To address some of the buggy are feeling play… It appears some frames are missing sometimes, somethings hit funny, damage protection ignored in some aspects…fix that stuff and give some of us a chance to play who haven't made it our full-time job to beta-test for the past couple of months… Level the playing field so we can get a feel for more than three guys opinion on characters

That's kind of my point. If we wanted to play a version where characters weren't tournament viable...that game already exists... VUMK3. The very idea of this game comes from making each character tournament viable. Maybe not everyone being 5-5...but at least viable enough that we stop seeing H.Smoke/Kabal grand finals.

Even in ST, the WORST MU in the game is 7-3 (Cammy v. O.Sagat if I remember correctly), and Cammy still has options to win and can convert to decent damage when she does get in.

The point in my suggestions for Scorpion is that if he's going to be so limited, then when he hits you, he's gotta hit like a truck... otherwise it's just not worth using him. Kabal, H.Smoke, and Ermac needed damage nerfs because they had both options...they were not limited and they hit like a truck.

Also, I didn't include punishers because almost every character in the game get's almost 50% or breaks 50% with a punisher.

 

[tehdrewsus]

That's kind of my point. If we wanted to play a version where characters weren't tournament viable...that game already exists... VUMK3. The very idea of this game comes from making each character tournament viable. Maybe not everyone being 5-5...but at least viable enough that we stop seeing H.Smoke/Kabal grand finals.

Even in ST, the WORST MU in the game is 7-3 (Cammy v. O.Sagat if I remember correctly), and Cammy still has options to win and can convert to decent damage when she does get in.

The point in my suggestions for Scorpion is that if he's going to be so limited, then when he hits you, he's gotta hit like a truck... otherwise it's just not worth using him. Kabal, H.Smoke, and Ermac needed damage nerfs because they had both options...they were not limited and they hit like a truck.

Also, I didn't include punishers because almost every character in the game get's almost 50% or breaks 50% with a punisher.

Could always give Noob kabal's spot on the character select screen… I'm pretty sure that would accomplish some of the spirit of tournament edition.

He does hit like a truck though… Doesn't he get 40% on his launcher? 40% is a lot of damage

 

[9.95]

Could always give Noob kabal's spot on the character select screen… I'm pretty sure that would accomplish some of the spirit of tournament edition.

He does hit like a truck though… Doesn't he get 40% on his launcher? 40% is a lot of damage

Or we could just replace everyone on the select screen with H.Smoke and suddenly we have VUMK3 and the soon to be completed TE.

Here's the thing... H.Smoke has all these options to open you up. You MIGHT make one mistake against Scorpion because of all his limitations. It's far easier to make mistakes against HS, Ermac and Kabal than it is against Scorpion. Even if you make 2, odds are, he's close to dead anyway.

BTW, Don't EVER get it confused... H.Smoke is the clone of Scorpion... not the other way around!

 

[dubson]

Also, I didn't include punishers because almost every character in the game get's almost 50% or breaks 50% with a punisher.

Depends on where at on the screen…

For example, not mid screen….

 

[haketh]

Even in ST, the WORST MU in the game is 7-3 (Cammy v. O.Sagat if I remember correctly), and Cammy still has options to win and can convert to decent damage when she does get in.

Don't use examples you don't fully know, Cammy's worse MU is Honda. The MU is 8-2 Honda favor, O. Sagat is probably 8-2 also but theirs still more of a chance in that one due to him not having a stored throw OS.

Honestly I think Scorpion should be the only Spear character able to do a Jump Convert off of spear with a increased hit limit, the spear is HIS gimmick so he should be the best at it.

 

[9.95]

Don't use examples you don't fully know, Cammy's worse MU is Honda. The MU is 8-2 Honda favor, O. Sagat is probably 8-2 also but theirs still more of a chance in that one due to him not having a stored throw OS.

Honestly I think Scorpion should be the only Spear character able to do a Jump Convert off of spear with a increased hit limit, the spear is HIS gimmick so he should be the best at it.

LOL, that's why I said "if I remember correctly". I haven't looked at a tier list or MU chart for ST in YEARS. I did remember that O.Sagat/Cammy is one of the worst MU's in the game, which is why I used it. Even if I'm wrong on my numbers, I still get my point across in the difficulty of the MU.

 

[haketh]

LOL, that's why I said "if I remember correctly". I haven't looked at a tier list or MU chart for ST in YEARS. I did remember that O.Sagat/Cammy is one of the worst MU's in the game, which is why I used it. Even if I'm wrong on my numbers, I still get my point across in the difficulty of the MU.

Sorry I just get bugged when that happens on here lol >.>

 

[tehdrewsus]

H.Smoke is the clone of Scorpion... not the other way around!

I never said that, not once. Don't go after my intelligence man.

 

[9.95]

I never said that, not once. Don't go after my intelligence man.

LOL, I thought NYers were supposed to be the irritable ones, LOL. Easy bro... I'm JOKING. (hence the little face with the tongue sticking out at you, LOL)

 

[dubson]

Hey. Hope this isn't considered spam since I've not played the game to provide feedback however I just wanted to say I'm excited that you guys put all the effort in to make this happen. I stumbled into TYM based on a neogaf thread and a curiosity at what had become of the scene since UMK3 on live was killed. I thought we had a great little communiy way back when and had quite a lot of fun on ultimatemk.com. So hi to all the old familiar faces and let me know if there's anything I can do to help out.

Good to hear from you old friend! My Kano Brother! Are you still on Xbox? PM me bro!

 

[DWednesday]

FIXED!

We keep Scorp's hit limit the same, but we give him H.Smoke's 2 hit pop-up, he also keeps the rest of his changes, but has H.Smoke's double DP >= 4 hits.

We then remove both of H.Smokes current pop-ups, and give him a new custom knee-starting 4 hit pop-up (Knee, LK, DLP, DHP), and the air throw back, he also keeps the rest of his changes.

Then we have 2 distinguishably different characters (no more Smoke is a Scorp clone or vice versa), both balanced (-ish, to the current balancing), both with different playstyles (Scorp being the Scorp/HSmoke playstyle we all are accustomed to from VUMK3, and Smoke being something else, Invis setups are shit, iunno )

Everyone with a dizzying/stun move can jump after, but the stun length is shortened like kabals was, and Robot's TPU is disabled.

We then balance from there.

Problem solved.
/thread

 

[9.95]

FIXED!

We keep Scorp's hit limit the same, but we give him H.Smoke's 2 hit pop-up, he also keeps the rest of his changes, but has H.Smoke's double DP >= 4 hits.

We then remove both of H.Smokes current pop-ups, and give him a new custom knee-starting 4 hit pop-up (Knee, LK, DLP, DHP), and the air throw back, he also keeps the rest of his changes.

Then we have 2 distinguishably different characters (no more Smoke is a Scorp clone or vice versa), both balanced (-ish, to the current balancing), both with different playstyles (Scorp being the Scorp/HSmoke playstyle we all are accustomed to from VUMK3, and Smoke being something else, Invis setups are shit, iunno )

Everyone with a dizzying/stun move can jump after, but the stun length is shortened like kabals was, and Robot's TPU is disabled.

We then balance from there.

Problem solved.
/thread

I think that the hacker is trying to make Scorpion and Smoke feel like different characters, rather then one feeling like a neutered version of the other. Rather than turn Scorpion INTO HS, I still think its better to give Scorpion different options than HS.

 

[dubson]

I think that the hacker is trying to make Scorpion and Smoke feel like different characters, rather then one feeling like a neutered version of the other. Rather than turn Scorpion INTO HS, I still think its better to give Scorpion different options than HS.

Exactly...

 

[dubson]

Has Konqrr or @R.E.O. put up a kombo video for Scorpion, displaying him in TE?

 

[DWednesday]

On a different topic...

SQUARE WAVE CHANGES:

• Input changed to F,D,B,HP and input window reduced to prevent accidental activation when trying to uppercut while holding D+B to avoid throws

Why isn't this the case for: Kano's knife throw, Stryker's high grenade, the Ninja TP's, and C.Sub's ground freeze? (and to a lesser extent because they use LP: NW's arrow, U.Sub's clone, and Ermac's FB?)

 

[tehdrewsus]

Exactly...

My thoughts exactly. I always thought that human smoke is what scorpion should have been in the first place, but I think it's outside the scope of tournament edition to actually do that LOL.
Wayback in the day I renamed the scorpion wins sound file for smoke so when I won playing as human smoke in trilogy on the PC, it would say scorpion wins. LOL

 

[9.95]

Has Konqrr or @R.E.O. put up a kombo video for Scorpion, displaying him in TE?

 

[9.95]

My thoughts exactly. I always thought that human smoke is what scorpion should have been in the first place, but I think it's outside the scope of tournament edition to actually do that LOL.
Wayback in the day I renamed the scorpion wins sound file for smoke so when I won playing as human smoke in trilogy on the PC, it would say scorpion wins. LOL

Basically, what I'm doing by pleading this case is saying that while I don't mind Scorpion and HS to do similar damage, its the way they GET the damage that can be different. HS has complete control of the match when he's invisible. He can open you up different ways, etc.

Scorpion, if the changes I've suggested are made, will do similar damage to NHS, but the difference is that he will just have a few more options to get that damage instead of only relying on chip, reads, and baited mistakes. They won't be clones of each other, and the biggest differences for Scorpion would be the additional hit before spear disable and the overhead on the ULP. Then Scorpion will be able to capitalize on mistakes as well as having another option to open you up instead of just relying on RJ's and and reads.

 

[dubson]

40% off a Jump in, 36% off a spear, he is looking decent, I think his teleport cool down should go back to normal though

 

[REO]

I agree Scorpion should get his forward teleport, making the last hit of his pop-up string an overhead, and being able to jump during a spear. But anything more than that will be serious overkill. Scorpion is already a good character.

I think the talk of Sonya getting an overhead property added to her leg grab is DUMB. Why does she need a drastic buff like this? She's one of the better characters in TE and it doesn't make any sense why she's getting this sort of attention over so many other characters.

 

[Juggs]

I agree Scorpion should get his forward teleport, making the last hit of his pop-up string an overhead, and being able to jump during a spear. But anything more than that will be serious overkill. Scorpion is already a good character.

I agree completely. I actually would say all Scorpion needs is either jumping after a spear or a forward teleport, and not both. I wouldn't it mind it either way but I definitely agree that Scorpion is a really good character. I also do agree that HSmoke doesn't need this ability to jump after a spear. I kinda lumped him with Scorpion in my arguments earlier which was a mistake. HSmoke is really really good right now, he doesn't need anything else. However, Scorpion isn't that much further behind, but the 2 buffs mentioned above wouldn't be "too much" imo.