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General/Other Congrats To Revolver for Getting 1 Win in a 9-1 MU

Shaazzyam

undefeated online evo champion
I don't think so lol ... it's not your fault your character does this.

So? NRS isn't holding a Zod rifle to his head, forcing him to win with broken mechanics or else.

The post below mine needs to get a clue already. This is the worst MU in the game, no question. MU numbers don't account for human error, it's possible to win if played incorrectly.
 
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Jimmypotato

Mid Tier
Buy the laws of math and shit, and only tourny results mattering, if we times these numbers by three would this not be a 7-3 match up, and give the 1 extra to Zod a just cause Zod Balls??

I mean, he won a match.

To me it's hard to say something is unwinnable if a guy wins a match.

What would the Results be in 100 matches??? Are these 2 willing to grind this out next time they can play offline just so we could know for sure???

Worst match in the game to me is still Arrow vs Aquaman, unless the Aquaman has never played the game before, you will never win a match. Simple because you can't.
 

ATP2014

The best mediocre Batman
Buy the laws of math and shit, and only tourny results mattering, if we times these numbers by three would this not be a 7-3 match up, and give the 1 extra to Zod a just cause Zod Balls??

I mean, he won a match.

To me it's hard to say something is unwinnable if a guy wins a match.

What would the Results be in 100 matches??? Are these 2 willing to grind this out next time they can play offline just so we could know for sure???

Worst match in the game to me is still Arrow vs Aquaman, unless the Aquaman has never played the game before, you will never win a match. Simple because you can't.
Chris G, a player who has probably not practiced this game in close to a year, has won multiple matches against good Aquaman players. It's a hard 7-3 matchup.

Revolver literally can't move forward against Zod. It clearly is a harder matchup.
 

NurzBenny

Old Member
I actually could've taken another game at the least but I messed up at like crucial points. I didn't throw him in the corner at the end of his one lifebar and I remember at some point he dashed in for trait pressure which I KNEW he was gonna do and I meant to corp charge but messed up :/.

I tried my best though. I was honestly about to sit down and not play, but I had to try so I did what I could. I don't really deserve props for losing lol but thanks for the support for those who gave it
Oh well then, while we're denying our well deserved props, allow me to say fuck you, Ben vs Revolver is a worse match up than this lol
 

Gurpwnder

Saikyo Student
Buy the laws of math and shit, and only tourny results mattering, if we times these numbers by three would this not be a 7-3 match up, and give the 1 extra to Zod a just cause Zod Balls??

I mean, he won a match.

To me it's hard to say something is unwinnable if a guy wins a match.

What would the Results be in 100 matches??? Are these 2 willing to grind this out next time they can play offline just so we could know for sure???

Worst match in the game to me is still Arrow vs Aquaman, unless the Aquaman has never played the game before, you will never win a match. Simple because you can't.
No. If you ran this set 3 more times with the same results each time, the ratio of wins to losses is still the same.
9-1 isn't unwinnable, since the other side is predicted one WIN out of 10 matches. 10-0 is considered unwinnable.
 
Match-up numbers are a approximation of a percentage of a player winning (or losing) a matchup. Using one match, in my view, to judge a match-up would be incorrect. As Saucy Jack has stated in the past, it's like flipping a coin 3 times and getting heads all 3 times despite the percentage of flipping heads or tails is 50/50.

Hypothetically, the more matches the match up is played at the highest level, the more closer the match up number would result. (ex. flipping a coin 1000 times would produce a result closer to 50/50 as opposed to flipping it 3 times). Of course this is hypothetical, since the term "highest level of play" is extremely subjective and not every top player plays to their fullest potential or punishes everything. There's also a large number of variables involved as well, but I won't get in to.

In revolver's case, him winning one match would not change the matchup. That one match he won could be the only match he would win, and if the set continued, lose 9 straight against Relaxstate. In this case it was a first to 3. If relaxed state and revolver played to 100 or 1,000 you would probably get a more accurate number (which is somewhat impossible due to mental fatigue, physical fatigue, thereby reducing the level of play). Hence why match-up numbers are an approximation.

Personally I'd rather focus on match-up criteria and respective gameplans for each character than match-up numbers, but that's my two cents.

TL;DR Lex vs. Zod matchup can't be determined by only a first to 3 match. Matchup looks awful is likely a 9-1 at the highest level of play. "Highest level of play" is somewhat subjective, but I would assume that would be Zod with perfect IAZB throughout the match, which rarely occurs in tournament matches. Good shit to Revolver either way
 
I know there's absolutely 0 chance of another balance patch down the line, but as someone whose taking a stab at fighting game design ATM I'd like food for thought.

What would be the best way to fix this without A) removing IAZBs or B) Overbuffing Lex to give him options in this particular matchup?
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Before the match, people were saying it was a 9-1 MU. I thought it was a troll or exaggeration, it clearly is not. If revolver would have won, he'd be a legend imo.
 
This is only half the story! What was even more infuriating was seeing how he would make a couple inches of progress, and then have to block a low laser and get pushed allll the way back.
Yeah, also there's trait. Its not like you can patiently inch your way towards him like I've seen some people do with a character like Kabal because you're never ever going to manage to get him to the corner before he's built the meter for ground laser or recharged his trait and force you to walk back.
 
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If anything, the lesson here is that maaaaybe DLC character isn't a great idea. Let's just have a complete game with it's characters, and then save new characters for the next game. Something is always introduced that screws so many characters. Martian, Zod, Batgirl, Kenshi, Freddy. Stop the madness now.
You're never going to convince a publisher like WB games to not sell DLC characters on the grounds that they might be too powerful and disrupt the game balance is the problem. The best we could do, maybe, is to outright ban DLC characters altogether...but I'm not really a big fan of that idea.
Honestly I really just wish NRS could do annual updates for these things. EDIT: Also, lets not forget that Aquaman and Kabal are both vanilla characters....so its not like banning DLC would suddenly elminate all the dominant matchups.
 
You're never going to convince a publisher like WB games to not sell DLC characters on the grounds that they might be too powerful and disrupt the game balance is the problem. The best we could do, maybe, is to outright ban DLC characters altogether...but I'm not really a big fan of that idea.
Honestly I really just wish NRS could do annual updates for these things. EDIT: Also, lets not forget that Aquaman and Kabal are both vanilla characters....so its not like banning DLC would suddenly elminate all the dominant matchups.
Have him not have more than one slow Zod ball at the screen at once.
 
To fix this, simply make his air shots the same frames as his ground shots, they thought a few extra frames wouldn't hurt but it created a 9-1 mu, if zod wasn't shooting them fast as he does, the mu would slighty be better. Anyway I kinda feel revolver's pain, when I entered empress_fantasy's online tourney the brackets were randomized and I got ARMOR in my pool.

lex is a great character with alot of tools and it takes awhile to adapt and get him to a high lvl, and once you put so much time and effort into a character you never wanna switch to someone else because you just feel comfortable with that character regardless of a bad mu, and I rather feel comfortable and play a bad mu than feel uncomfortable and not confident in my character. this is probably why revolver doesn't take the time to learn a new character to counter this 9-1 mu.
 
Also, it's not just IAZB that bodies a lot of the cast. Zod can throw out a bunch of other shit, call out trait, chip you even more, grab an interactable, put you in another mix up, dash back for spacing, etc.

IAZB alone dominates Lex, and Joker, and many other characters I'm prolly forgetting.
 

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
Am I a bad guy?

Zod made me turn heel
No, you're awesome. You bought me a drink after. Otherwise I'd still hate you.

Buy the laws of math and shit, and only tourny results mattering, if we times these numbers by three would this not be a 7-3 match up, and give the 1 extra to Zod a just cause Zod Balls??

I mean, he won a match.

To me it's hard to say something is unwinnable if a guy wins a match.

What would the Results be in 100 matches??? Are these 2 willing to grind this out next time they can play offline just so we could know for sure???

Worst match in the game to me is still Arrow vs Aquaman, unless the Aquaman has never played the game before, you will never win a match. Simple because you can't.
That's not how it works. If we played 7 more games he most likely would've won 7. I'm forced to capitalize on small mistakes in the strongest way I can. The only reason I was able to make it slightly competitive is because he executed a couple things wrong and made some bad decisions that gave me opportunities. I've played this matchup hundreds of times online and offline, I'm not basing it off the score of a tournament match.

I know there's absolutely 0 chance of another balance patch down the line, but as someone whose taking a stab at fighting game design ATM I'd like food for thought.

What would be the best way to fix this without A) removing IAZBs or B) Overbuffing Lex to give him options in this particular matchup?
@Pig Of The Hut had the idea before to only let 1 slow and 1 fast ball on the screen at one time. Idk how it would affect other stuff but it would fix this matchup. The only thing I could think of with lex himself would be to give him a shorter forward dash. That way I could at least trait dash or fadc through a zod ball without getting hit by a second one.
 

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
To fix this, simply make his air shots the same frames as his ground shots, they thought a few extra frames wouldn't hurt but it created a 9-1 mu, if zod wasn't shooting them fast as he does, the mu would slighty be better. Anyway I kinda feel revolver's pain, when I entered empress_fantasy's online tourney the brackets were randomized and I got ARMOR in my pool.

lex is a great character with alot of tools and it takes awhile to adapt and get him to a high lvl, and once you put so much time and effort into a character you never wanna switch to someone else because you just feel comfortable with that character regardless of a bad mu, and I rather feel comfortable and play a bad mu than feel uncomfortable and not confident in my character. this is probably why revolver doesn't take the time to learn a new character to counter this 9-1 mu.
I don't like playing other characters. It might just be arrogance on my part but that's just how I play fighting games. I honestly think Lex is a strong character that can get consistent top 8's and win tournaments, I've just been extremely unlucky at tournaments with stuff. Like, this is my history at majors since the game came out, I've had this kind of shit in my path at every tournament:

ECT 2013: prepatch ds (twice)
Evo 2013: prepatch superman (twice)
Summer Jam 2013: sinestro (twice)
NEC 2013: zod
Winter Brawl 2014: zod
Evo 2014: zod
NEC 2014: zod

there's very few sinestro/zod players at tournaments. literally between 1 and 3 at each of them. the only tournament where that didn't happen was ECT this year. and i got 3rd lol. either my luck is terrible or TO's hate me
 

WakeUp DP

GT MK OshTekk.
The real winner is that one who won.

Play to win, if you cant handle the MU counter pick. But dont make yourself up to be a victim or a hero lol.

Also Relaxedstate instant air projectile execution is godlike!
 
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Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
No, you're awesome. You bought me a drink after. Otherwise I'd still hate you.



That's not how it works. If we played 7 more games he most likely would've won 7. I'm forced to capitalize on small mistakes in the strongest way I can. The only reason I was able to make it slightly competitive is because he executed a couple things wrong and made some bad decisions that gave me opportunities. I've played this matchup hundreds of times online and offline, I'm not basing it off the score of a tournament match.



@Pig Of The Hut had the idea before to only let 1 slow and 1 fast ball on the screen at one time. Idk how it would affect other stuff but it would fix this matchup. The only thing I could think of with lex himself would be to give him a shorter forward dash. That way I could at least trait dash or fadc through a zod ball without getting hit by a second one.
Zod needs that nerf and my recommendation fixes the issue @Konqrr see above idea

thoughts?
 

Icy Black Deep

Still training...
This man did the impossible getting 1 win in an the hardest MU in the game.
Prop fishing.

In the last thread about this Pig said there were at least 5 other characters that are just as screwed by IAZB. At least Lex has armor against the other zoners in the game.
 

Indecisive

We'll burn you all—that is your fate!
Prop fishing.

In the last thread about this Pig said there were at least 5 other characters that are just as screwed by IAZB. At least Lex has armor against the other zoners in the game.
ICY FIGURED OUT THE POINT OF THE THREAD. CLOSE IT DOWN CLOSE IT DOWN. PANIC. GAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH