Super Smash Bros Discussion!

[Jimmypotato]

someone should def start a facebook page, facebook runs way better on my mobile, way easier to see if anyone is looking for matches,

 

[Groove Heaven]

Dude your day 1 impressions are pretty all over the place here. I can't wait to see this in a month. Sheik especially is not a low tier. Bounding fish alone augments her kill and recovery game and her grenade move gives her a lot of control out there and she was never a bad character. She has a jumping combo that goes all the way off the stage for kills now. She's a very mobile threat. I dont even see Mega Man placed on the list yet. Additionally have you fought someone using Villager's slingshot on rapid fire hops like he was old school Falco or something? His hit and run game is pretty decent and his stage recovery is so great he can chase ridiculously far.

Glad you've tried so many though. Your list will shake up a lot though as you play...there is a LOT goin' on out there so look forward to all the juicy stuff you'll see later. Just wait till you start doing edge canceling and stuff. Peach is pretty cool about those and some cast even have hidden tools. Link is supposed to be able to act immediately out of throws now allowing easier juggles. There is just so much here to cover it just flows on for days.

I might have put Shiek a bit low, but I wouldn't go beyond mid tier. She can go pretty out of her way to get gimps and recover to the ledge, but she has similar problems to Brawl where she was a low mid tier character. If the whole DACUS thing pans out she might have a reliable way to approach and kill, but I doubt that will happen till the Wii U version.

I actually did play a Villager doing that and I didn't have as many problems because it's not as good, fast, or long range as Falco's lazers in Melee or Brawl. Not that they aren't good, but I just don't think it's enough to win at the high level. His normals aren't up to par and his specials are gimmicky. His aerials are ok though, and he might have the best spike in the game. I can see him being better than I think but I'm not feeling him yet.

Many characters are missing, it's because I didn't get good first impressions of them.

I'm 100% sure this will change a lot, it's day 4 of the game and there's almost no tech for anyone yet. I was doing this more for fun than anything, but this is a rough estimate of where me and the friends I played with today think these characters will end up in the long run. I'm not some ballin-ass Smash player and neither are my friends, but we're not casuals either and tested a lot of stuff/played a lot of 1v1s with each other/theorycrafted.

 

[Pan1cMode]

Word, I'm open to discussion. Obviously I'm way off the mark with a lot of this because the game is new but these are just my first impressions after a pretty long offline session with multiple people.

I think Doc might be because pills are good and yeah his aerials are active but again they're very short range.

I really think Pacman is a bill. His recovery is too involved and easy to counter, but I can see him being good in the future with how off-the-wall his moves are. His smashes are like...unusable though and his tilts aren't good enough to cover it. His nair is good for sure but I was getting beat on most other aerials.

I feel Peach will be nasty with a c-stick. She has the same float-cancel type of game as Brawl but her aerials seem better all-around.

Haven't played Puff but I'm happy to hear that, wall-of-paining seems to be really good in this one.

I actually think Mario is better than doc. Fireball spacing is much more effective than pill zoning because of the way the pills bounce based on jump height. FLUDD actually does allow you to get some early kills because it's quite useful this iteration. Mario' combo potential is also much better than Doc's with u-tilt chains leading into u-airs and a lower knockback d-throw. I actually think Mario will fall into a higher tier due to his combo potential and ability to steal low percent kills.

Also, your assessment of Sheik surprises me considering everyone on smashboards is putting her at S tier with ZSS, Duck Hunt Duo and Bowser.

 

[shaowebb]

The first high level Sheik vs ZSS on stream will be so fast and gorgeous...

 

[Cabronium]

someone should def start a facebook page, facebook runs way better on my mobile, way easier to see if anyone is looking for matches,

I think we would start a big PM with a bunch of us that are looking for games.

 

[BlackViper415]

I'm not understanding all the Bowser love. Is he good? Yes. Is he S tier? No.

He's still a huge target, he still has trouble with zoning, and his moves still have 3 years of ending lag. He's definitely a strong character, but I expect him and Little Mac to drop before long.

 

[PPJ]

@dabuz

 

[Groove Heaven]

I actually think Mario is better than doc. Fireball spacing is much more effective than pill zoning because of the way the pills bounce based on jump height. FLUDD actually does allow you to get some early kills because it's quite useful this iteration. Mario' combo potential is also much better than Doc's with u-tilt chains leading into u-airs and a lower knockback d-throw. I actually think Mario will fall into a higher tier due to his combo potential and ability to steal low percent kills.

Also, your assessment of Sheik surprises me considering everyone on smashboards is putting her at S tier with ZSS, Duck Hunt Duo and Bowser.

Hmm, maybe I am wrong about these guys. I'll have to play both of them again. I will admit I did not give FLUDD a fair shake, I was mostly looking at people's normals/aerials and what I thought their knockback potential vs. defensive options seem to be since I think that is what will run this game.

The more I think about it I can see Shiek being really good in the right hands, she chases very well off the stage.

 

[KH_Seraph]

Alright so here are my notes on Pac-Man so far.

Normals:
D-Tilt is great. Quick, advancing.
F-tilt is your poke. It has deceptive range, great for pivots. You can angle it upwards, straight, and downwards.
Bair - Solid kill move. Does about 11.5-12% which makes it perfect for bashing the hydrant with AND DOES NOT STALE. This means you can dropkick your hydrants to your heart's content.

His Dash attack is amazing. Hits multiple times, seems to have great priority, and you can combo off it at lower percentages.

His smashes seem straightforward and basic, but they are better used as kill moves in conjunction with hydrant tech. His d-smash keeps tumblers in check.

Where he really shines as a toon, is his fire hydrant. It is not gimmicky in the least and ever self-respecting high level Pac player will use this in their game. Here are the perks:
1. When you throw it down, it has a hit box that does nice damage and knockback. Think about it as a bowser ass-stomp, but a projectile.
2. It allows for 'fruit loop' setups. Spaces your opponents out thanks to push-back properties that come from both sides of the hydrant. You can use this time to get:
the galaxian ship which loops and has the potential to hit multiple times.
The bell that stuns ZSS style.
The key that is QUICK and can KO.
The other fruit are good too, my favorite though is the apple because it does decent damage and knockback and bounces.
Mix it up. Stand on the hydrant too if you want, it will bounce you up to safety if someone tries to rushdown. Sheiks dash attack and f smash both whiff, for example. Some can catch you though.

You can also use the hydrant set up advancing smashes and throws. His d throw is decent. I have also caught people off guard (Little Macs included) and get kills from it even though it does no damage.

Pac-Man has an AMAZING recovery game with power pellet, because of the ability to change trajectory and super armor. At max range it also does ko potential damage. In fact, it's so good, he can clear the entire underside of Final Destination. Just a scratch of the surface.

EDIT: By the way, my friend code is 4570-8446-2139

 

[7L]

Cool. im trying to figure out some his throw combos, but they seem to bounce too far away. What have you found?

at low % you can get upthrow, up a. not the upsmash but the tongue, then bait into up air or up smash depending if they dodge.

His side throws are great off the edge, even though it's not far. you can get hella combos and baits into hydro pump. At the moment my thing to do is just HP them trying to jump back, sending them about 3x as high as they plan on going, then hitting them as they come down.

 

[THTB]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1498134150458859/

I tend to not check big group PMs too often, so I made this.

 

[Fromundaman]

I know it's still early but Groove I disagree with a LOT of your opinions (Although to be fair I am finding I disagree with my previous opinions every time I turn the console back on).

Pac Man: No way is this character trash tier. If nothing else, he has 10 different ways to kill you, of which half are really easy to land. His combos off of grabs, some projectiles and dash attack are good. He is able to play defensively and offensively with ease and has a ridiculously good recovery (Since side B does not put him in free fall and has super armor; just don't hit a wall!). His Nair is godlike, as is his Ftilt and jab combo. He can WoP with Fair and gimp fairly well.

On the flip side, other than the fire hydrant, he doesn't have a whole lot of ways to stop people from standing below him and punishing his landings, making his best choice when trying to get down to go for the ledge and getting up from there. Reflectors also make him a much riskier character since his projectiles are so deadly. His grab sucks giant monkey dick as well, which really hurts him since his grab game is actually really good if he does land the grab. Finally while his recovery is godlike and gimping him will pretty much never happen, his recovery is pretty linear and he can take quite a bit of damage from some characters trying to recover. His smashes are mediocre too, but to be honest this doesn't really hurt him since he doesn't rely on them for much.




Sheik: Au contraire mon frere, Shiek is just as good as she was in Brawl, except almost all of her problems have been removed.
New mechanics means you won't be edgeguarding her recovery, not to mention the reappearance now has a hitbox as well on top of the windbox, making it hard to punish. Her Uair and air Down B are also amazing kill moves now meaning she no longer needs to rely solely on Bair and Usmash. Her combos are ridiculous as well.



Ganon:

I have mixed feelings about this guy. On one hand his range was buffed on his tilts and smashes, his Fair was buffed, Down B was HELLA buffed and he benefits heavily from new ledge, landing lag and rage mechanics. It is also really easy to perfect shield everything while running in thanks to his very short dash startup. He also lives forever if he can avoid getting gimped.


On the flip side, Choke is techable.
Yeah, that by itself is huge; let me explain why:

Flame choke being techable means not only do you not have guaranteed follow ups and have to guess (Like in Brawl), teching gets you up fast enough to actually punish Ganondorf if he guesses wrong. That's right, Flame Choke actually causes a guessing game where the odds are AGAINST Ganon's favor if the opponent knows how to tech.

Fine, you think, then I won't use the force choke. Well, here's where his previous weaknesses from Brawl come into play:

Ganon gets shieldgrabbed out of EVERYTHING and it is painfully easy to perfect shield him. The answer to that would be to grab, but his grab range is abysmal, or command grab with Flame Choke, but that creates a guessing game against your favor.

This, on top of how easy he is to gimp, makes it so that the game is extremely uphill for Ganon until he gets a hit. That said, once he takes a bit of damage, one hit may be all it takes to end a stock.



Diddy:
I don't have a lot of experience with this character, but the fact that he only gets one banana and it disappears on hit, along with the fact that his recovery seems much, much worse makes me think he won't be very good this time around.
That said, as much as I like the character, I cannot realistically see him going above low tier with his glaring weaknesses.

 

[THTB]

Pretty much spot-on about Ganondorf. Attacking anything not in the middle of an action can suck. ;_;

 

[Jimmypotato]

I'm really diggin Yoshi.

Is there a site with comprehensive info about this game.

Like explination of the lingo and all that jazz? I haven't really played a smash game in like 7 years since I skipped Brawl and don't play competitve Melee.

Loving this game though. Tons of fun. I'll post my FC on the Facebook page for everyone as I'm at work right now.

 

[rpg]

Did you add me?

Yes i did =D

 

[rpg]

at low % you can get upthrow, up a. not the upsmash but the tongue, then bait into up air or up smash depending if they dodge.

His side throws are great off the edge, even though it's not far. you can get hella combos and baits into hydro pump. At the moment my thing to do is just HP them trying to jump back, sending them about 3x as high as they plan on going, then hitting them as they come down.

Hmmm is Greninja good guys i was thinking of using him as my second character,.

 

[MortySeinfeld]

Can everyone here join the Facebook Group that @THTB posted?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1498134150458859/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1498134150458859/
We should just create a giant Facebook Chat Group based off of the people in that Facebook group so we can organize easy matchmaking and communication.

I'll be on later tonight if anyone wants to get some games in.

 

[NoobHunter420]

am loving this game
been messing with a few characters, charizard and zelda are so fun l0l
about to sit down and not get up till I unlock coopa jr
btw I wish nothing but the worse to little mac mains

 

[MortySeinfeld]

am loving this game
been messing with a few characters, charizard and zelda are so fun l0l
about to sit down and not get up till I unlock coopa jr
btw I wish nothing but the worse to little mac mains

imo, Jigglypuff destroys Little Mac. You just need to get him off the stage. He isn't even intimidating to chase because his aerials are so bad and his side-B has a goofy hitbox. It's pretty much the only way he can recover.

I am really liking Jigglypuff, ROB, Sonic and Peach right now.

 

[MisguidedAngel]

I'm bringing the pain with Sonic and Mega Man.

 

[shaowebb]

I'm really diggin Yoshi.

Is there a site with comprehensive info about this game.

Like explination of the lingo and all that jazz? I haven't really played a smash game in like 7 years since I skipped Brawl and don't play competitve Melee.

Loving this game though. Tons of fun. I'll post my FC on the Facebook page for everyone as I'm at work right now.

Smashboards.com is your primary center for smash on the net. And BTW a lot of folks are feelin' ya on that Yoshi. He is FAR improved. Really solid character who benefitted a lot from system mechanic changes and a few hitbox/knockback changes.

 

[KH_Seraph]

Here are a few of the things I've been messing around with for Pac-Man. Thought I'd share some tech with my TYM brethren and fellow Pac enthusiasts.

Pac-Man vs Robin (For Glory, 1v1)

Pac-Man vs Bowser Jr (For Glory, 1v1)

Couple of execution errors but provided insight on these m/u's. Pac can do some crazy shit lol.

 

[nuttyAFA]

Here are a few of the things I've been messing around with for Pac-Man. Thought I'd share some tech with my TYM brethren and fellow Pac enthusiasts.

Pac-Man vs Robin (For Glory, 1v1)

Pac-Man vs Bowser Jr (For Glory, 1v1)

Couple of execution errors but provided insight on these m/u's. Pac can do some crazy shit lol.

pac-man is awesome, i love the hydrant.

Is anyone messing with custom moves at all? Should we be? Seems kinda pointless if the random ranked matches don't let you use them

 

[HoneyBee]

pac-man is awesome, i love the hydrant.

Is anyone messing with custom moves at all? Should we be? Seems kinda pointless if the random ranked matches don't let you use them

I don't know about any of you but I'm entering Smash 3DS at TFC and I intend to attend other smash tournies so custom moves seem relevant to me. From what I've heard from the Smash community, rules have yet to be decided but most likely custom moves will be aloud while equipment will most likely not be permitted. I know some characters benefit from changing their moves more than others and I see no reason to not allow custom movesets

 

[Fromundaman]

Tournaments are undecided on custom moves, and it's possible they could be just for the 3DS version, so I haven't touched them yet.



Also wow Seraph, you play Pacman VERY differently from me (Not a bad thing; I am going to steal some stuff from you actually). I hadn't thought of doing SideB into hydrant; may have to mess with that.
That said you don't seem to abuse his godlike normals much, nor the broken-ness of the galaga ship. His combos are pretty good too, and his Dthrow is godlike (With the obvious drawback being that you have to attempt his shitty grab to use it).


EDIT:

I don't know about any of you but I'm entering Smash 3DS at TFC and I intend to attend other smash tournies so custom moves seem relevant to me. From what I've heard from the Smash community, rules have yet to be decided but most likely custom moves will be aloud while equipment will most likely not be permitted. I know some characters benefit from changing their moves more than others and I see no reason to not allow custom movesets

The main thing that I think may kill custom moves would be the fact that custom slots can be equipped with moves AND equipment, and TOs probably won't have time to go around and make sure every player is using JUST custom moves in their custom slots.


I also plan to play Smash 4 competitively. Smash is what got me into fighting games, and this one seems a far cry better than Brawl, so I'll definitely be playing it.

Plus for the first time in forever the characters I want to play aren't shitty