Super Smash Bros Discussion!

[The Great One]

Oooo I do Smash character vectors anyone have requests?

 

[THTB]

I started use fox( hence my name) but he feels like absolute garbage so I dropped him. I now main marth and I've been really enjoying r.o.b.

Overall the game feels pretty solid even with the absence of wave dashing and l canceling.( would really like l canceling back)

Only things I would change
-make air dodge only useable once per jump. Being able to spam it in the air is annoying
-slow down the recover speed of left/right dodge
-nerf party attacks Marths parry seems ridiculous

Sent from phone

Air dodging is already nerfed, since landing during an air dodge has a lot of recovery (though I'm not sure if this has always been this way). Rolls are also apparently slower. That's what I've been hearing.

And parries have super long recovery and don't counter throws.

 

[AK Black Preon]

Don't know if anyone has said this but... I never actually thought Dedede would only have 2 inches on Pikachu. Perspective man..

 

[HoneyBee]

Honeybeee we must play sometime =D

Did you add me?

 

[7L]

Greninja hydro pump is broken. I love it

 

[shaowebb]

God damn Ganondorf got some low percent kill power in this game. If he takes 80% damage run the fuck away man...fury will make him KO your ass in two decent combos .

 

[AK XEN0M0RPH]

So far Ive been loving Samus. Also working on Greninja and Lucario. Anyone got combos for these guys yet?

 

[Indigeau]

Anyone hyped for/planning on maining a buffed-up Ness? It's good to see him getting some love, since Brawl kinda screwed him over in certain areas.

 

[HoneyBee]

Anyone hyped for/planning on maining a buffed-up Ness? It's good to see him getting some love, since Brawl kinda screwed him over in certain areas.

I'm the Ness of Canada

 

[7L]

So far Ive been loving Samus. Also working on Greninja and Lucario. Anyone got combos for these guys yet?

I got some Greninja stuff

 

[AK XEN0M0RPH]

I got some Greninja stuff

Cool. im trying to figure out some his throw combos, but they seem to bounce too far away. What have you found?

 

[shaowebb]

Anyone hyped for/planning on maining a buffed-up Ness? It's good to see him getting some love, since Brawl kinda screwed him over in certain areas.

Yeah I'm glad that folks who were early reporting on him had the wrong idea. All we heard were things like more recovery on stuff and it sounded a total mess. His PK Thunder is great and the condition of PK Fire was greatly exaggerated. He feels like he can do more than just up smash all day now. The system changes on ledge stealing and air dodging help him a lot too.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

I'm the Ness of Canada

Yo Zyphox, get off your hidey!

 

[MortySeinfeld]

@Cabronium can you update OP with a list of Friends Codes so we can begin organizing some Matchmaking?

Here is a list of some of the local AZ guys (and others from a different thread) in the MK/Injustice scene that I have been playing Smash Bros 3DS with:

MortySeinfeld - 0044-2809-3139
Citizen_Snips - 3926-5046-0812
ThatDragon - 0877-1524-3505
AZ_Caleb - 4785-5106-9680
xInfraDeadx - 3325-3024-4659
THTB - 3738-0017-0665

It also might be worthwhile to create a Facebook Group and Facebook Chat Group to start organizing easy matchmaking.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

How's Palutena by the way? Kinda want to try her out, but wasn't so sure of what to do or what not.

 

[BlackViper415]

How's Palutena by the way? Kinda want to try her out, but wasn't so sure of what to do or what not.

She seems pretty bad, at least with her default moveset. Slow smashes, slow normals, a poor reflector, slow-ass projectie, and very gimmicky warp stuff. The only really good things she has are her MASSIVE up smash and a decent counter. Maybe I'm missing something, but she seems like a very weak character.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

She seems pretty bad, at least with her default moveset. Slow smashes, slow normals, a poor reflector, slow-ass projectie, and very gimmicky warp stuff. The only really good things she has are her MASSIVE up smash and a decent counter. Maybe I'm missing something, but she seems like a very weak character.

Aw that's a bummer.

 

[Groove Heaven]

My Day 1 feelings on Smash 3DS (unnecessarily long write-up inc)
Day 1 because this was the first day I had to actually sit down with people and play the game offline/check multiple characters out

-feels a lot like brawl and has some of the brawl tech so I feel like this is an alteration of the brawl engine
-low jumps go high for most characters, weird approaching in the air
-at first air dodges seemed cheap because you can spam them but they're not the greatest idea all the time
-playing defensively is harder than in brawl (fortunately). You get shield-poked a lot and spot dodge/roll are punished easily
-everyone basically lives from anywhere and gimping is surprisingly difficult. You pretty much have to get an great read to kill at low %
-playing off the stage is fairly safe for everyone, you can kinda DBZ that shit. It's hard to overextend yourself but it does happen. Unfortunately you often find yourself having to take those risks because...
-the new ledge grab system does not allow you to edgehog. The “honor system” of casuals has finally become a game mechanic. There might be answers to this, edge-guarding is obviously not dead, but wall-of-paining and doing crazy dropzone ninja shit actually seems more realistic
-OTGs are pretty viable in this game which is awesome
-it's good and fun but I feel it will be a huge departure from past smash games in terms of competitive play

Tier list of the characters I got to try/play against (obviously subject to change and probably will)

TOP TIER
Rosalina – Can apply pressure and edgeguard from a safe distance. Has good up-close tools. Good knockback. Yeah you can kill the Luma but she gets another one in like 5 seconds and it doesn't matter anyway because her keep-away and range is godlike. Beats item-based specials hard and has great recovery. Disappears when she does her up+B, rolls, or air dodges.
Bowser – basically the only character that has reliable ways to kill at low %. Faster, decent aerials, good tilts, low short hop, good spike, fire is as annoying as ever. If you corner him on your last stock he can Bowsercide you and jump out of it. I hear you can even get back to the ledge on some stages...awesome
Duck Hunt – Weird-ass character but might be the Snake of Smash 4. Trap-based zoning and good up close game.

HIGH TIER
R.O.B. - he got big buffs and some small nerfs. Dsmash is even better this time and can actually kill. Lazer recovers way faster and goes through more. Glide tossing is apparently still a thing. Great OTG options and good wall of pain. Recovery actually got nerfed and the tilts don't feel quite the same but still good.
Wario – basically the same thing. Still kinda hard to kill but that down air...
Marth – Same thing as before. Tippers can still kill so people with good spacing will do well
Olimar – He seems to be about as good as before. Not the greatest kill potential but he's still good. Way better recovery too that works with no pikmin
Diddy – same thing with 1 less banana, which I think will still hurt him a lot

MID TIER
Little Mac – pretty weird but I feel some potential. His short-hop barely leaves the ground which seems good for this game because of the mobility but ironically his aerials aren't great. Good tilts, bad specials.
Pikachu
Bowser Jr. - might be better, might be worse. Decent normals and surprisingly good specials
Robin – might be good but will be hard to use. Normals and aerials are just too short to call him/her high tier.
Ganondorf
Lucina – Marth but not as good
DK – feels like the same exact character as brawl

LOW TIER
Captain Falcon – his dash is fastish but his short-hop is too high to carry the way he plays
Shiek – Like the same character as Brawl but she can go way off the stage and get kills. Ftilt is still the most obnoxious...
Palutena – Decent tools but everything she has is slowwwwwwwww
Dr. Mario, Mario, Luigi – in that order. Too floaty, bad recovery, and limbs too short. Doc might be good
Mr. G&W – back air (turtle) is still dumb but he feels way slower
Villager – no range on the ground except for up smash. Decent aerials but not a great air game
Fox

TRASH TIER
Pacman – Worthless smashes, short tilts, specials are all insane and have 1,000,000 startup frames.
Meta Knight – and good fuck him. No more gliding, no more broken shuttle loop, no more stupidly high priority, no more nonsensically high damage from impossibly good specials. Still light and has low knockback with and that's what matters in this game
Dedede – I played him briefly but I'm ready to write him off as a shitter. Awful normals, weak specials, and his chain grab is gone.
Shulk and Ike – as far as I can see they're the same bad character. Hope I get proven wrong on Shulk.



I know that was kind of ridiculous but I like Smash a lot lol

 

[BlackViper415]

My Day 1 feelings on Smash 3DS (unnecessarily long write-up inc)
Day 1 because this was the first day I had to actually sit down with people and play the game offline/check multiple characters out

-feels a lot like brawl and has some of the brawl tech so I feel like this is an alteration of the brawl engine
-low jumps go high for most characters, weird approaching in the air
-at first air dodges seemed cheap because you can spam them but they're not the greatest idea all the time
-playing defensively is harder than in brawl (fortunately). You get shield-poked a lot and spot dodge/roll are punished easily
-everyone basically lives from anywhere and gimping is surprisingly difficult. You pretty much have to get an great read to kill at low %
-playing off the stage is fairly safe for everyone, you can kinda DBZ that shit. It's hard to overextend yourself but it does happen. Unfortunately you often find yourself having to take those risks because...
-the new ledge grab system does not allow you to edgehog. The “honor system” of casuals has finally become a game mechanic. There might be answers to this, edge-guarding is obviously not dead, but wall-of-paining and doing crazy dropzone ninja shit actually seems more realistic
-OTGs are pretty viable in this game which is awesome
-it's good and fun but I feel it will be a huge departure from past smash games in terms of competitive play

Tier list of the characters I got to try/play against (obviously subject to change and probably will)

TOP TIER
Rosalina – Can apply pressure and edgeguard from a safe distance. Has good up-close tools. Good knockback. Yeah you can kill the Luma but she gets another one in like 5 seconds and it doesn't matter anyway because her keep-away and range is godlike. Beats item-based specials hard and has great recovery. Disappears when she does her up+B, rolls, or air dodges.
Bowser – basically the only character that has reliable ways to kill at low %. Faster, decent aerials, good tilts, low short hop, good spike, fire is as annoying as ever. If you corner him on your last stock he can Bowsercide you and jump out of it. I hear you can even get back to the ledge on some stages...awesome
Duck Hunt – Weird-ass character but might be the Snake of Smash 4. Trap-based zoning and good up close game.

HIGH TIER
R.O.B. - he got big buffs and some small nerfs. Dsmash is even better this time and can actually kill. Lazer recovers way faster and goes through more. Glide tossing is apparently still a thing. Great OTG options and good wall of pain. Recovery actually got nerfed and the tilts don't feel quite the same but still good.
Wario – basically the same thing. Still kinda hard to kill but that down air...
Marth – Same thing as before. Tippers can still kill so people with good spacing will do well
Olimar – He seems to be about as good as before. Not the greatest kill potential but he's still good. Way better recovery too that works with no pikmin
Diddy – same thing with 1 less banana, which I think will still hurt him a lot

MID TIER
Little Mac – pretty weird but I feel some potential. His short-hop barely leaves the ground which seems good for this game because of the mobility but ironically his aerials aren't great. Good tilts, bad specials.
Pikachu
Bowser Jr. - might be better, might be worse. Decent normals and surprisingly good specials
Robin – might be good but will be hard to use. Normals and aerials are just too short to call him/her high tier.
Ganondorf
Lucina – Marth but not as good
DK – feels like the same exact character as brawl

LOW TIER
Captain Falcon – his dash is fastish but his short-hop is too high to carry the way he plays
Shiek – Like the same character as Brawl but she can go way off the stage and get kills. Ftilt is still the most obnoxious...
Palutena – Decent tools but everything she has is slowwwwwwwww
Dr. Mario, Mario, Luigi – in that order. Too floaty, bad recovery, and limbs too short. Doc might be good
Mr. G&W – back air (turtle) is still dumb but he feels way slower
Villager – no range on the ground except for up smash. Decent aerials but not a great air game
Fox

TRASH TIER
Pacman – Worthless smashes, short tilts, specials are all insane and have 1,000,000 startup frames.
Meta Knight – and good fuck him. No more gliding, no more broken shuttle loop, no more stupidly high priority, no more nonsensically high damage from impossibly good specials. Still light and has low knockback with and that's what matters in this game
Dedede – I played him briefly but I'm ready to write him off as a shitter. Awful normals, weak specials, and his chain grab is gone.
Shulk and Ike – as far as I can see they're the same bad character. Hope I get proven wrong on Shulk.



I know that was kind of ridiculous but I like Smash a lot lol

ZSS and Greninja need to be put in top or high tier. ZSS can swap between zoning and rushdown at will and has some very sneaky/reliable kill moves. Greninja is just relentless. Also, Meta Knight is still a solid character and dsmash is dumb as ever. You just can't be brainless with him any more.

 

[KH_Seraph]

I main Pac-Man. He is NOT garbage, he just plays extremely differently from all the other characters.

The only character I've had trouble with so far is Little Mac, because he can be a handful to deal with up close. Gotta throw them fruit and keep that fool hosed.

 

[Groove Heaven]

ZSS and Greninja need to be put in top or high tier. ZSS can swap between zoning and rushdown at will and has some very sneaky/reliable kill moves. Greninja is just relentless.

Didn't get the chance to mess around with them but yes ZSS looks really good.

 

[MortySeinfeld]

My Day 1 feelings on Smash 3DS (unnecessarily long write-up inc)
Day 1 because this was the first day I had to actually sit down with people and play the game offline/check multiple characters out

-feels a lot like brawl and has some of the brawl tech so I feel like this is an alteration of the brawl engine
-low jumps go high for most characters, weird approaching in the air
-at first air dodges seemed cheap because you can spam them but they're not the greatest idea all the time
-playing defensively is harder than in brawl (fortunately). You get shield-poked a lot and spot dodge/roll are punished easily
-everyone basically lives from anywhere and gimping is surprisingly difficult. You pretty much have to get an great read to kill at low %
-playing off the stage is fairly safe for everyone, you can kinda DBZ that shit. It's hard to overextend yourself but it does happen. Unfortunately you often find yourself having to take those risks because...
-the new ledge grab system does not allow you to edgehog. The “honor system” of casuals has finally become a game mechanic. There might be answers to this, edge-guarding is obviously not dead, but wall-of-paining and doing crazy dropzone ninja shit actually seems more realistic
-OTGs are pretty viable in this game which is awesome
-it's good and fun but I feel it will be a huge departure from past smash games in terms of competitive play

Tier list of the characters I got to try/play against (obviously subject to change and probably will)

TOP TIER
Rosalina – Can apply pressure and edgeguard from a safe distance. Has good up-close tools. Good knockback. Yeah you can kill the Luma but she gets another one in like 5 seconds and it doesn't matter anyway because her keep-away and range is godlike. Beats item-based specials hard and has great recovery. Disappears when she does her up+B, rolls, or air dodges.
Bowser – basically the only character that has reliable ways to kill at low %. Faster, decent aerials, good tilts, low short hop, good spike, fire is as annoying as ever. If you corner him on your last stock he can Bowsercide you and jump out of it. I hear you can even get back to the ledge on some stages...awesome
Duck Hunt – Weird-ass character but might be the Snake of Smash 4. Trap-based zoning and good up close game.

HIGH TIER
R.O.B. - he got big buffs and some small nerfs. Dsmash is even better this time and can actually kill. Lazer recovers way faster and goes through more. Glide tossing is apparently still a thing. Great OTG options and good wall of pain. Recovery actually got nerfed and the tilts don't feel quite the same but still good.
Wario – basically the same thing. Still kinda hard to kill but that down air...
Marth – Same thing as before. Tippers can still kill so people with good spacing will do well
Olimar – He seems to be about as good as before. Not the greatest kill potential but he's still good. Way better recovery too that works with no pikmin
Diddy – same thing with 1 less banana, which I think will still hurt him a lot

MID TIER
Little Mac – pretty weird but I feel some potential. His short-hop barely leaves the ground which seems good for this game because of the mobility but ironically his aerials aren't great. Good tilts, bad specials.
Pikachu
Bowser Jr. - might be better, might be worse. Decent normals and surprisingly good specials
Robin – might be good but will be hard to use. Normals and aerials are just too short to call him/her high tier.
Ganondorf
Lucina – Marth but not as good
DK – feels like the same exact character as brawl

LOW TIER
Captain Falcon – his dash is fastish but his short-hop is too high to carry the way he plays
Shiek – Like the same character as Brawl but she can go way off the stage and get kills. Ftilt is still the most obnoxious...
Palutena – Decent tools but everything she has is slowwwwwwwww
Dr. Mario, Mario, Luigi – in that order. Too floaty, bad recovery, and limbs too short. Doc might be good
Mr. G&W – back air (turtle) is still dumb but he feels way slower
Villager – no range on the ground except for up smash. Decent aerials but not a great air game
Fox

TRASH TIER
Pacman – Worthless smashes, short tilts, specials are all insane and have 1,000,000 startup frames.
Meta Knight – and good fuck him. No more gliding, no more broken shuttle loop, no more stupidly high priority, no more nonsensically high damage from impossibly good specials. Still light and has low knockback with and that's what matters in this game
Dedede – I played him briefly but I'm ready to write him off as a shitter. Awful normals, weak specials, and his chain grab is gone.
Shulk and Ike – as far as I can see they're the same bad character. Hope I get proven wrong on Shulk.



I know that was kind of ridiculous but I like Smash a lot lol

I disagree with Dedede and Shulk, I haven't played Ike yet. Shulk has a very good neutral air and u-tilt, in the green jump/speed form he is very effective imo. Dedede has better specials and still has very good tilts he just doesn't have his chain grab from Brawl.

I think Mario and Dr. Mario are actually pretty decent in this game. They have a lot of active frames on aerials and good recovery.

I have a feeling Bowser Jr. will end up being high tier as the game evolves.

Disagree with Fox and Pacman.

Jigglypuff will be High-Tier imo, she has a very strong off stage presence like usual and very good priority on her aerials.

I think Peach has potential to be upper-tier as well but need to play her more.

 

[Groove Heaven]

I disagree with Dedede and Shulk, I haven't played Ike yet. Shulk has a very good neutral air and u-tilt, in the green jump/speed form he is very effective imo. Dedede has better specials and still has very good tilts he just doesn't have his chain grab from Brawl.

I think Mario and Dr. Mario are actually pretty decent in this game. They have a lot of active frames on aerials and good recovery.

I have a feeling Bowser Jr. will end up being high tier as the game evolves.

Disagree with Fox and Pacman.

Jigglypuff will be High-Tier imo, she has a very strong off stage presence like usual and very good priority on her aerials.

I think Peach has potential to be upper-tier as well but need to play her more.

Word, I'm open to discussion. Obviously I'm way off the mark with a lot of this because the game is new but these are just my first impressions after a pretty long offline session with multiple people.

I think Doc might be because pills are good and yeah his aerials are active but again they're very short range.

I really think Pacman is a bill. His recovery is too involved and easy to counter, but I can see him being good in the future with how off-the-wall his moves are. His smashes are like...unusable though and his tilts aren't good enough to cover it. His nair is good for sure but I was getting beat on most other aerials.

I feel Peach will be nasty with a c-stick. She has the same float-cancel type of game as Brawl but her aerials seem better all-around.

Haven't played Puff but I'm happy to hear that, wall-of-paining seems to be really good in this one.

 

[Cabronium]

@Cabronium can you update OP with a list of Friends Codes so we can begin organizing some Matchmaking?

Here is a list of some of the local AZ guys (and others from a different thread) in the MK/Injustice scene that I have been playing Smash Bros 3DS with:

MortySeinfeld - 0044-2809-3139
Citizen_Snips - 3926-5046-0812
ThatDragon - 0877-1524-3505
AZ_Caleb - 4785-5106-9680
xInfraDeadx - 3325-3024-4659
THTB - 3738-0017-0665

It also might be worthwhile to create a Facebook Group and Facebook Chat Group to start organizing easy matchmaking.

sure thing!

 

[shaowebb]

My Day 1 feelings on Smash 3DS (unnecessarily long write-up inc)
Day 1 because this was the first day I had to actually sit down with people and play the game offline/check multiple characters out

-feels a lot like brawl and has some of the brawl tech so I feel like this is an alteration of the brawl engine
-low jumps go high for most characters, weird approaching in the air
-at first air dodges seemed cheap because you can spam them but they're not the greatest idea all the time
-playing defensively is harder than in brawl (fortunately). You get shield-poked a lot and spot dodge/roll are punished easily
-everyone basically lives from anywhere and gimping is surprisingly difficult. You pretty much have to get an great read to kill at low %
-playing off the stage is fairly safe for everyone, you can kinda DBZ that shit. It's hard to overextend yourself but it does happen. Unfortunately you often find yourself having to take those risks because...
-the new ledge grab system does not allow you to edgehog. The “honor system” of casuals has finally become a game mechanic. There might be answers to this, edge-guarding is obviously not dead, but wall-of-paining and doing crazy dropzone ninja shit actually seems more realistic
-OTGs are pretty viable in this game which is awesome
-it's good and fun but I feel it will be a huge departure from past smash games in terms of competitive play

Tier list of the characters I got to try/play against (obviously subject to change and probably will)

TOP TIER
Rosalina – Can apply pressure and edgeguard from a safe distance. Has good up-close tools. Good knockback. Yeah you can kill the Luma but she gets another one in like 5 seconds and it doesn't matter anyway because her keep-away and range is godlike. Beats item-based specials hard and has great recovery. Disappears when she does her up+B, rolls, or air dodges.
Bowser – basically the only character that has reliable ways to kill at low %. Faster, decent aerials, good tilts, low short hop, good spike, fire is as annoying as ever. If you corner him on your last stock he can Bowsercide you and jump out of it. I hear you can even get back to the ledge on some stages...awesome
Duck Hunt – Weird-ass character but might be the Snake of Smash 4. Trap-based zoning and good up close game.

HIGH TIER
R.O.B. - he got big buffs and some small nerfs. Dsmash is even better this time and can actually kill. Lazer recovers way faster and goes through more. Glide tossing is apparently still a thing. Great OTG options and good wall of pain. Recovery actually got nerfed and the tilts don't feel quite the same but still good.
Wario – basically the same thing. Still kinda hard to kill but that down air...
Marth – Same thing as before. Tippers can still kill so people with good spacing will do well
Olimar – He seems to be about as good as before. Not the greatest kill potential but he's still good. Way better recovery too that works with no pikmin
Diddy – same thing with 1 less banana, which I think will still hurt him a lot

MID TIER
Little Mac – pretty weird but I feel some potential. His short-hop barely leaves the ground which seems good for this game because of the mobility but ironically his aerials aren't great. Good tilts, bad specials.
Pikachu
Bowser Jr. - might be better, might be worse. Decent normals and surprisingly good specials
Robin – might be good but will be hard to use. Normals and aerials are just too short to call him/her high tier.
Ganondorf
Lucina – Marth but not as good
DK – feels like the same exact character as brawl

LOW TIER
Captain Falcon – his dash is fastish but his short-hop is too high to carry the way he plays
Shiek – Like the same character as Brawl but she can go way off the stage and get kills. Ftilt is still the most obnoxious...
Palutena – Decent tools but everything she has is slowwwwwwwww
Dr. Mario, Mario, Luigi – in that order. Too floaty, bad recovery, and limbs too short. Doc might be good
Mr. G&W – back air (turtle) is still dumb but he feels way slower
Villager – no range on the ground except for up smash. Decent aerials but not a great air game
Fox

TRASH TIER
Pacman – Worthless smashes, short tilts, specials are all insane and have 1,000,000 startup frames.
Meta Knight – and good fuck him. No more gliding, no more broken shuttle loop, no more stupidly high priority, no more nonsensically high damage from impossibly good specials. Still light and has low knockback with and that's what matters in this game
Dedede – I played him briefly but I'm ready to write him off as a shitter. Awful normals, weak specials, and his chain grab is gone.
Shulk and Ike – as far as I can see they're the same bad character. Hope I get proven wrong on Shulk.



I know that was kind of ridiculous but I like Smash a lot lol

Dude your day 1 impressions are pretty all over the place here. I can't wait to see this in a month. Sheik especially is not a low tier. Bounding fish alone augments her kill and recovery game and her grenade move gives her a lot of control out there and she was never a bad character. She has a jumping combo that goes all the way off the stage for kills now. She's a very mobile threat. I dont even see Mega Man placed on the list yet. Additionally have you fought someone using Villager's slingshot on rapid fire hops like he was old school Falco or something? His hit and run game is pretty decent and his stage recovery is so great he can chase ridiculously far.

Glad you've tried so many though. Your list will shake up a lot though as you play...there is a LOT goin' on out there so look forward to all the juicy stuff you'll see later. Just wait till you start doing edge canceling and stuff. Peach is pretty cool about those and some cast even have hidden tools. Link is supposed to be able to act immediately out of throws now allowing easier juggles. There is just so much here to cover it just flows on for days.