Super Smash Bros Discussion!

[Paul the Octopus]

Well lets see...Link can cancel out of all throw cooldown into anything he wants. Link has his mashable reduced to 3 hits meaning that it can be used as a linking setup for further hits instead of just as a mashable like in brawl. Runs are faster meaning if you actually bother to use hops you can catchup to any low knockback moves in time for followups...case in point Ganondorf can now do running shoulder into running shoulder into up smash.

Oh and don't forget universal run increase in speeds, a multitude of moves that retained the original startup had their active frames increased enabling you to link stuff, and the removal of tripping and the introduction of 3 air dodges means you are much MUCH more mobile. Oh and your shield roll dodging is MUCH faster allowing more up close slugouts.

Its a far cry from brawl. You can't wave dash or do the Short Hop Fast Fall L Cancel (shuffle) stuff, but thats about ALL thats missing considering you can still dash dance, edge cancel and on a few folks even have specific cancels. You can't combo? You aren't trying hard enough. Not everything is down or up throw into a smash or airs. Many moves link into themselves or setup for you to followup with running attacks. Short hop fast fall stuff will help you a lot to find things is my advice. Getting upset that its not Melee and saying its no better than brawl is ludicrous though. Its a far cry from that. Hell Megaman is like easy mode combos. Spark into uppercut into Air blast.

Its good. Its not brawl slow. Your just being negative because your expectations were for something that had wavedashes and a lot of crazy stuff that wasn't really ever intended like shine dashing, shine spiking and shine from shield canceling with fixed knockback and laser hopping. You wont see that sort of thing in this game. But you will see a LOT of tight footsies and dodge fests into some meaty combos.

I hope you are right.

Do you have any videos you recommend I watch? I do come from a melee background but I'm trying to be open minded. I just honestly haven't seen what you are describing. I fully admit I could be looking in the wrong places - would be glad to be proven wrong.

I'm really not trying to be negative just to troll others / be a nuisance. Sorry if it's coming off that way. These are just my objective opinions based on what I've seen and experienced so far.

 

[shaowebb]

I recommend the 1FOW1 channel. He answers questions if you ask them preceded by 1FOW1 and is a pretty knowledgeable player who has the full game. Him plus various youtube vids as they go up plus DEMO stuff I'm doing is how I find things.

http://www.twitch.tv/1fow1

Also I found out something good. Ness's normals got BUFFED and his specials got nerfed except PK thunder which is also buffed. This may actually mean he's better than before given the increased air dodging. I will need to play him to pass judgment. Also found out Greninja, while super good at offense, lacks the knockback to kill. His best asset is he can get a lot of hits in and he is so mobile he can fight off the stage in a manner that traps you too low or far to recover from. Thats how he kills. So if you like going in deep off the stage and being a flurry he will be very good for gimping but if you like to overwhelm with offense and smash expect to need a decent amount of damage and some experience nailing tippers and sweet spotting smashes for maximum knockback.

 

[TKB]

Megaman feels beast.

What you wanna jump over me? Airshot carries them away.
You trying to anti air my jump in? Hard Knuckle KO.

Feels so great. These two moves have so many setups too. Spark needle sucks them in, uppercut, airshot KO. Up throw Airshot KO. Uppercut Airshot KO. Up B (rushcoil) into Down A (hard knuckle) KO.

Plus his slide and his top spin are relentless tools to keep him inside on folks. Still getting the hang of his other tools. I'm actually able to use leaf shield if I jump because then I got time to summon it and use it for a safe landing approach. I'm needing to get better at the flame pillar which is his down smash, and jumping slash attacks. They seem really good, but I'm not consistent yet where I'm still learning his stuff. His metal blade reminds me of Yoshi Egg aiming. Tap B then flick quickly after that to send it in another direction. Its useful but will take time to get accurate with and it can be used against him. His charged megabuster is great. Its his forward smash and it has great distance as its a projectile smash.

Megaman is DEFINITELY going to be one of my guys. Just so good at controlling space and staying a threat during any method of approach.

I'm so jealous you're playing this already lol. Megaman is going to be my main

 

[shaowebb]

Demo is out on 3ds. Its got 30 uses but that doesn't mean 30 matches...it means 3o times you can open it from the menu. It has Megaman, Mario, Pikachu, Link, and Villager. Its not the full roster but go nuts. They are all pretty solid.

I still need to wait for it to release in a few weeks like everyone else to get a hold of Little Mac and Ganondorf. I'm asking a lot of questions on other boards, vid chasing and talking to good streamers and making requests from some streamers to play certain cast or to try things I am curious on. I research very well and network well is all I got going for me.

If ya got a 3ds ...download the demo and just leave the 3ds plugged in and folded up between uses so you dont countdown your 30 times on the demo.

 

[The PantyChrist]

How is link? I used link/ Kirby in 64

 

[shaowebb]

How is link? I used link/ Kirby in 64

BETTER. He's much faster, he can act immediately upon completing any throw for chain combo-ing, his grab no longer poops out and drags the chain on the ground (it comes straight back now), he no longer does that mashable sword swipe and it hits around 2 or 3 times and leaves them free for followups instead which is much more useful for in and out damage as well as setting up stuff, his jump feels improved to allow for easy followups, he pogos on his sword stab from the air (I can't remember if he pogo-ed or just Toon Link in brawl...) and he feels like the improvements to his run, dodge rolling and air dodging made him just plain relentless.

He's a great guy. Also I think his arrows may charge up faster . This feels like the best Link I've used from any iteration including Project M.

 

[Pan1cMode]

I'm loving Mario in the demo. Dem combos .

n-air/d-air, d-throw, u-tilt, u-tilt, d-throw, u-tilit, u-tilt, u-air, u-air, u-air, b-air ~80% =D

Also his FLUDD is suuuuper useful this time around. Charges much faster and the pushback has been increased heaps. Plus his b-air and n-air have 0 landing lag allowing shield pressure into grab/aaa combo.

I can't wait for this full game to come out.

 

[shaowebb]

Landing Lag in general was reduced across the entire cast except for specific moves. Its a BIG reason why I say the loss of Short Hop Fast Fall L Cancel (SHFFL or shuffle) is not really a thing. You can react so fast now after most jumps or hops you dont need to worry about L Cancel to improve your options.

 

[PPJ]

fld;shg;ldghdsgh need to preorder wiiu version

 

[shaowebb]

fld;shg;ldghdsgh need to preorder wiiu version

PimPimJim you are one of my favorite players of Injustice. We must play once you get yours. Who are you looking at using so I can start grinding the matchup

 

[Pan1cMode]

Landing Lag in general was reduced across the entire cast except for specific moves. Its a BIG reason why I say the loss of Short Hop Fast Fall L Cancel (SHFFL or shuffle) is not really a thing. You can react so fast now after most jumps or hops you dont need to worry about L Cancel to improve your options.

This I like. I hated L-cancelling just for the mere sake that it was an arbitrary, unnecessary skill barrier that prevented newer players from getting into competetive melee.

I like the whole aerial landing lag reduction scheme along with the increased landing lag after air-dodges. In makes the game more accessible and more punish and combo oriented.

 

[shaowebb]

http://www.twitch.tv/1fow1

Get in here. 1fow1 is gettin MAD good matches tonight just ran into a sick as fuck Game N Watch showcasing new tech and combos. Dude would down throw into judgment hammer, mash the gas gun and then finish with upsmash. He beat the shit outta Charizard. Throw loops like Wobbles was up in there.

Also I learned something...you can pop Villagers fucking balloons. GOOD. That frickin move has such insane vertical recovery he can survive from off screen below the stage. I'm gonna be chucking Hard Knuckles and Metal Blades at him all day down there with Megaman.

EDIT: Also this stream has a pro player as well and tonight its showing some good Shulk.

http://www.twitch.tv/dentissbb

 

[Fromundaman]

Here's a playlist of a recent tournament full of what seems to be some of the highest current level play:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFXOgPi6_N5S1OsIriDFMoUnYClvA8xIx

Megaman feels beast.

What you wanna jump over me? Airshot carries them away.
You trying to anti air my jump in? Hard Knuckle KO.

Feels so great. These two moves have so many setups too. Spark needle sucks them in, uppercut, airshot KO. Up throw Airshot KO. Uppercut Airshot KO. Up B (rushcoil) into Down A (hard knuckle) KO.

Plus his slide and his top spin are relentless tools to keep him inside on folks. Still getting the hang of his other tools. I'm actually able to use leaf shield if I jump because then I got time to summon it and use it for a safe landing approach. I'm needing to get better at the flame pillar which is his down smash, and jumping slash attacks. They seem really good, but I'm not consistent yet where I'm still learning his stuff. His metal blade reminds me of Yoshi Egg aiming. Tap B then flick quickly after that to send it in another direction. Its useful but will take time to get accurate with and it can be used against him. His charged megabuster is great. Its his forward smash and it has great distance as its a projectile smash.

Megaman is DEFINITELY going to be one of my guys. Just so good at controlling space and staying a threat during any method of approach.

You should watch iiGGY's Megaman. He used him at the above tournament in this match:

He is ridiculously good and giving me a lot of hope for the character.

 

[Pan1cMode]

Here's a playlist of a recent tournament full of what seems to be some of the highest current level play:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFXOgPi6_N5S1OsIriDFMoUnYClvA8xIx





You should watch iiGGY's Megaman. He used him at the above tournament in this match:

He is ridiculously good and giving me a lot of hope for the character.

Who dat?
Who dat?

i. G. G. Y.

 

[Paul the Octopus]

This I like. I hated L-cancelling just for the mere sake that it was an arbitrary, unnecessary skill barrier that prevented newer players from getting into competetive melee.

I like the whole aerial landing lag reduction scheme along with the increased landing lag after air-dodges. In makes the game more accessible and more punish and combo oriented.

That's an interesting point. I kind of agree but wouldn't the equivalent in a traditional fighting game be to reduce all combos to one button presses? One could argue the execution involved with doing combos is an arbitrary and unnecessary barrier too.

However, I'm not sure id like that. It's objectively kind dumb but I enjoy learning to do combos.

 

[Pan1cMode]

That's an interesting point. I kind of agree but wouldn't the equivalent in a traditional fighting game be to reduce all combos to one button presses? One could argue the execution involved with doing combos is an arbitrary and unnecessary barrier too.

However, I'm not sure id like that. It's objectively kind dumb but I enjoy learning to do combos.

It's not the same thing. Combos require creativity and skill. It's not just pressing a button every single time after you do an aerial. There are some times when you might want to do a different type of combo so that it leads into a certain setup. There is never a time when you don't want to l-cancel. It's just arbritrary tech skill barrier that prevents new people from playing at a high level until they dedicate a certain amount of time (which could be spent improving their game elsewhere) perfecting some unnecessary skill.

The equivalent for injustice would be every time you wanted to perform a special move, you had to input the special command then press grab otherwise your move would be way more negative than normal. There is no reason a mechanic like that would need to exist other than making the game less accessible and making people waste time learning a useless but skill when they could be working on spacing/combos/setups/etc. Do you understand what I mean?

 

[Paul the Octopus]

It's not the same thing. Combos require creativity and skill. It's not just pressing a button every single time after you do an aerial. There are some times when you might want to do a different type of combo so that it leads into a certain setup. There is never a time when you don't want to l-cancel. It's just arbritrary tech skill barrier that prevents new people from playing at a high level until they dedicate a certain amount of time (which could be spent improving their game elsewhere) perfecting some unnecessary skill.

The equivalent for injustice would be every time you wanted to perform a special move, you had to input the special command then press grab otherwise your move would be way more negative than normal. There is no reason a mechanic like that would need to exist other than making the game less accessible and making people waste time learning a useless but skill when they could be working on spacing/combos/setups/etc. Do you understand what I mean?

I see what you mean in terms of creativity - having the flexibility to do different combos and end with different setups. That's a fair point.

"Skill" in doing combos that require multiple inputs is the same conceptually as skill in hitting L all the time tho. Execution is execution. I don't think it makes it more or less arbitrary if it's a more or less complex motion. I'll stop there tho, don't want to derail the thread.

 

[pogse]

First to ten between zero and otori.

otori uses sheik exclusively (in this set)
zero uses ZSS, Cfalco, Fox, Bowser and Lucario.

 

[PPJ]

http://www.twitch.tv/shi_gaming 130+ man japanese tourney

 

[MKF30]

Demo is out, it's awesome! MK and Smash, two best fighters to me.

I love Pikachu and Villager, Villager man you can totally zone with this guy lol while playing it safe up close with his trees! I haven't been this hyped about seeing trees in action since Bob Ross!

 

[Mikemetroid]

This fuckin week! GET HYPE!

Also if you want to farm coins in the demo, teabag against a level one. You get coins based on how many times your character goes to a neutral state on the circle pad

 

[Briggs8417]

I cant wait for the 3DS version! GRENINJA ALL DAY!

 

[Fromundaman]

I see a lot of people hyped about characters who are not Rosalina.

I see a lot of people who are wrong.

 

[Anbu]

I'm maining Zero Suit Samus whenever I get my hands on this game.

 

[Solo]

Lucario is calling out to me.