How is Nightwolf not OP. But cyrax is?

[leek]

Because you're the only one having a problem with it. I know you're saying it doesn't have to do with skill but it does.

JUMP BACK after you get hit to avoid the lightning. It's easy as hell and I'm punished for it all the time offline.

 

[M2Dave]

I just can't agree. This has nothing to do with my skill. If it was, I'd admit it. I lose to other characters. Sometimes I lose to them a lot. I'm not trying to defend my pride here. I know I'm not a top player.

But any time a combo is ended, NW hits me with an EX lightening as I roll or jump or dash on wake up. How is that my fault? How is that not showing that a NW player can time an EX lightening perfect to give him 30% more damage from a 40% combo. And isn't that the same problem people have with cyrax? Yet Cyrax doesnt have save strings/launchers like this.

What is the EX lightning set up that your opponent uses?

Edit: Guys, EX lightning is guaranteed when timed correctly. You cannot backroll or jump back. You have to do some kind of wake up attack.

 

[rev0lver]

So you play a NW that mistimes his lightenings, and mistimes his Axes so they get stuffed. That's an argument how?

Mistiming has NOTHING to do with the axe. The axe being 20 startup frames is what makes it easy to stuff. Almost any launch string a character has is going to beat that. As said before, the startup frames make it difficult to AA with too. This is why the hatchet is mostly used in combos alone.

I didn't use NW mistiming his lightning as an argument (and, as Metallica pointed out, it is difficult to consistently time), I said you can easily jump it. I've really never had a problem with jumping it. In the times I do get hit with it, I blame myself for not jumping in time more than anything else.

 

[Altaire]

Abridged version of this topic: "I don't have an answer for Nightwolf, so I've got salt coming out of my ass."

Here's the shortest possible answer I can give you: Because Nightwolf can't rack up 80% just for landing a single special. Voila, this topic just got crushed in a single sentence.

Nevermind that Nightwolf actually takes skill to play, whereas landing Cyrax's resets can be as simple as luck. Before anyone starts with this, yes, Cyrax IS a legitimate character as long as his resets are out of the picture. In spite of all this, I will go so far as to say that Nightwolf is the best character in the game, even now. I've been saying this since the last patch, and I'm still saying it to this day: He's a better character than Kung Lao or Raiden, no matter how strong those characters are. He's not overpowered by any means, but I think he can be pushed a hell of a lot further than Kung Lao and no one is even trying to do it. I don't even like Nightwolf; I don't play him, and I've always hated him as a character just because he seemed so painfully generic (I'm sure a lot of people will say I hate him because he's a Native, but hey, I hated Stryker for being a generic white guy too). That said, I respect the hell out of him and anyone with the balls to use him. He's a strong, strong character. Ask any prominent tourney player: They'll probably tell you that somewhere, in the back of their minds, there's a lingering fear that someone out there has a Nightwolf in top form, and they're always worried that it might be some no-name at the next major they go to.

 

[rev0lver]

s, EX lightning is guaranteed when timed correctly. You cannot backroll or jump back. You have to do some kind of wake up attack.

Are you sure about that? I'll admit, I've never played a NW player offline, so maybe it's the lag that throws consistent timing off, but I've really never thought of it as a problem. How many frames are there between being on the ground and being able to jump? Even offline, I'd think it'd be hard as hell to time such a slow attack so it hits at the moment it's guaranteed.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

Edit: Guys, EX lightning is guaranteed when timed correctly. You cannot backroll or jump back. You have to do some kind of wake up attack.

Thank you.

That's where 70% from one 1 bar comes from. OP.

 

[leek]

Abridged version of this topic: "I don't have an answer for Nightwolf, so I've got salt coming out of my ass."

Here's the shortest possible answer I can give you: Because Nightwolf can't rack up 80% just for landing a single special. Voila, this topic just got crushed in a single sentence.

Nevermind that Nightwolf actually takes skill to play, whereas landing Cyrax's resets can be as simple as luck. Before anyone starts with this, yes, Cyrax IS a legitimate character as long as his resets are out of the picture. In spite of all this, I will go so far as to say that Nightwolf is the best character in the game, even now. I've been saying this since the last patch, and I'm still saying it to this day: He's a better character than Kung Lao or Raiden, no matter how strong those characters are. He's not overpowered by any means, but I think he can be pushed a hell of a lot further than Kung Lao and no one is even trying to do it. I don't even like Nightwolf; I don't play him, and I've always hated him as a character just because he seemed so painfully generic (I'm sure a lot of people will say I hate him because he's a Native, but hey, I hated Stryker for being a generic white guy too). That said, I respect the hell out of him and anyone with the balls to use him. He's a strong, strong character. Ask any prominent tourney player: They'll probably tell you that somewhere, in the back of their minds, there's a lingering fear that someone out there has a Nightwolf in top form, and they're always worried that it might be some no-name at the next major they go to.

god damnit this man

brought a tear to my eye, you bring together my autistic thoughts as a well articulated paragraph. internets are quite a prize, I believe you have won them.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

Are you sure about that? I'll admit, I've never played a NW player offline, so maybe it's the lag that throws consistent timing off, but I've really never thought of it as a problem. How many frames are there between being on the ground and being able to jump? Even offline, I'd think it'd be hard as hell to time such a slow attack so it hits at the moment it's guaranteed.

This is after about a month of me fighting my sparring partner once he started exclusively playing NW. You're saying you don't have experience with good offline NWs, and that my complaints are real problems? You should come stay a couple weeks at my place.. lol.

And Altaire... yay great. NW is the "best" character because of his combination of abilities making him ridiculous. This is a good thing? And ok he can't do a 100% guaranteed 80% from a single special. But his ability to get in offensively with his fast and safe strings is so much better than Cyrax, and he still has a huge probability of landing the EX lightening setup, so he'll be taking 70% from one attack, and then able to take more if he has more meter. I'm saying this is just as unacceptable as Cyrax.

 

[leek]

Thank you.

That's where 70% from one 1 bar comes from. OP.

lolwat

who do you main brochacho?

wake up then. I think if you have to pro-time it instead of mindlessly mashing it, ESPECIALLY in a tournament setting where nerves and distractions come into play, that arguement is invalid IN ANY CASE

EDIT: smoke 103% death reset wat

 

[rev0lver]

Even if he can get 70% with 1 bar there, you still have to take into account the impossibility of 100% consistent timing and the fact that it won't work against half the cast (meaning those with dashing/teleporting wakeups, some which give free combos like Sektor). You're forgetting that Jax can theoretically do around 130% damage in the corner with ex ground pound, but that's negating wakeups.

And yeah, I can almost guarantee you that your friend, no matter how good he is with NW, can't hit a 30 frame attack within the timeframe that it's guaranteed every time.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

"Count on nerves making him not able to do it" is not advice.

 

[leek]

This is after about a month of me fighting my sparring partner once he started exclusively playing NW. You're saying you don't have experience with good offline NWs, and that my complaints are real problems? You should come stay a couple weeks at my place.. lol.

And Altaire... yay great. NW is the "best" character because of his combination of abilities making him ridiculous. This is a good thing?

Why does the best character always have to be OP?

It goes for any fucking topic man..
COD: "OH YA DAT GUN IS OP CUZ ITZ CHEAP"
BFBC2: "OH YA DAT HELICOPTER IS OP CUZ ITZ CHEAP"

don't mind me, i just can't think of any more examples.

If a CEO at a large corporation selling and manufacturing muffins and muffin accessories/goods decides to buy out his competition, giving him the upperhand in the muffin industry, should he be praised for his smart business decisions, or be chastised for buying out the little man and effectively making him the only one to buy muffins from? Point being just because he has the tools and potential to do well doesn't mean he should be shit on for it. He is hard to learn and master, and the timing on lightning is really. fucking. hard.

If Nightwolf has an infinite with the axe or EX-Lightning, he's op.

If not, I'm done posting here, kind of sick of the same thing being said about lightning being jumpable unless it's amazing timing

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

And yeah, I can almost guarantee you that your friend, no matter how good he is with NW, can't hit a 30 frame attack within the timeframe that it's guaranteed every time.

I'm glad you're able to know that. Even though every wake up dash, roll, or jump is hit by it. You're just not playing someone who can time it right.

 

[M2Dave]

Are you sure about that? I'll admit, I've never played a NW player offline, so maybe it's the lag that throws consistent timing off, but I've really never thought of it as a problem. How many frames are there between being on the ground and being able to jump? Even offline, I'd think it'd be hard as hell to time such a slow attack so it hits at the moment it's guaranteed.

Yes, I am sure, but it is difficult to time. As soon as you are on the ground, there are a couple of frames in which you are invulnerable. So, the EX lightning has to be performed a couple of frames later.

Under_The_Mayo has yet to explain himself.

f+3,1~d,f+1, b+2~d,f+1, 1, 1, 1,2,2~f,f+4, EX lightning, f,f+4 does not do 70% of damage.

 

[rev0lver]

"Count on nerves making him not able to do it" is not advice.

Again, wakeups. Also, the best players in the world at FG's drop combos. Timing a long attack to hit within a small timeframe, every time, is even more difficult than hitting the hardest combos every time. It's not nerves, it's the fact that humans aren't jedi's.

 

[rev0lver]

Even though every wake up dash, roll, or jump is hit by it. You're just not playing someone who can time it right.

Timing has nothing to do with wakeup attacks. If you're doing an invincible or teleporting/dashing wakeup, the lightning can't hit you.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

The main combo doesnt have to be ended with shoulder dash to set up the EX lightening. You can end it with them closer, and get more damage from the lightening hit. Even if they do the shoulder charge at the end, you'll be hit with another shoulder charge after the lightening. Which then leads to another lightening...and by this time you're in the corner, and you certainly will be taking another 30 to 35% off of it.

 

[leek]

Mayo. Who do you main.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

Kenshi and Quan. Lightening hits the wakeup teleport stomp. Kenshi has a wakeup EX teleflurry with armor, but that's not going to do much to help Kenshi overall because he has huge problems getting in on nightwolf in general.

 

[Altaire]

This is after about a month of me fighting my sparring partner once he started exclusively playing NW. You're saying you don't have experience with good offline NWs, and that my complaints are real problems? You should come stay a couple weeks at my place.. lol.

And Altaire... yay great. NW is the "best" character because of his combination of abilities making him ridiculous. This is a good thing? And ok he can't do a 100% guaranteed 80% from a single special. But his ability to get in offensively with his fast and safe strings is so much better than Cyrax, and he still has a huge probability of landing the EX lightening setup, so he'll be taking 70% from one attack, and then able to take more if he has more meter. I'm saying this is just as unacceptable as Cyrax.

Okay, refined abridged version of this topic: "My homie picked up Nightwolf, I used to pride myself on being able to take him, and now he runs all over me. I'm going to blame the character instead of my own shortcomings." Are you seriously whining about a 70% damage combo for one bar if you fail to use a wakeup? Please, by all means, name all of the characters who don't have an invincible wakeup that's safe in this scenario (as in, he's too far away/won't recover fast enough from the EX lightning). If you do this, every single time, he's wasted that meter for nothing. This is seriously the most thoughtless solution, and it's the same attitude I have towards Sub's new reset: Why is everyone crying about it when you can easily just eat the reset, every single time, to make his meter go to waste?

Fun fact: I know two damn good Nightwolf players. I don't think either one of them is pushing him as far as they could be (not yet, anyway), but they've really impressed it upon me that he's frightening. In spite of this, I manage to deal. I'll just be blunt: If you're unwilling to use an invincible wakeup to cut through this EX lightning setup, it's your own damn fault. Stop blaming the game for your own inability, or refusal, to adapt. I used to bitch about Kung Lao and Cage's block strings until I realized "Wait, I'm pretty sure I have dignity, I should probably just man the fuck up and learn to stop it". I think I do that pretty admirably, thank you very much.

 

[rev0lver]

Kenshi and Quan. Lightening hits the wakeup teleport stomp. Kenshi has a wakeup EX teleflurry with armor, but that's not going to do much to help Kenshi overall because he has huge problems getting in on nightwolf in general.

Well, we all know Quan's wakeups suck. But Kenshi? Why are you trying to get in on NW with Kenshi? Isn't the whole point to keep him away? Kenshi's launchers will beat NW's axe, and wakeup teleflurry will negate lightning, so I don't see what the problem is there.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

This was never about me being able to beat down my "homie". He can beat me plenty when he plays well, and I can do the same. I have issues with this character alone.

And yeah, the idea with Kenshi might be to keep away NW, if his specials were safe on block like NW's.

It's ok that I haven't had a resolution. People will disagree and that's fine. I just needed to talk about it.

 

[leek]

if his specials were safe on block like NW's.

>>were safe on block like NW's
>>safe on block
>>safe

arrow- terribly long startup. jump and a half distance or further ONLY, or in combos.
Hatchet- beatin' a dead one. not safe..come on man.
Choke- more recovery than an ACL injury.
Lightning- HALF A SECOND! to come out.. just hit him.. so much recovery as well..
reflect- on whiff, you're dead. simple.
shoulder- asdfhgjkljhlk hai, one safe move.

Kenshi has teleflurry. anything more than half of jump i think is safe. abuse abuse abuse and mix up with overhead special and lift.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

>>were safe on block like NW's
>>safe on block
>>safe

arrow- terribly long startup. jump and a half distance or further ONLY, or in combos.
Hatchet- beatin' a dead one. not safe..come on man.
Choke- more recovery than an ACL injury.
Lightning- HALF A SECOND! to come out.. just hit him.. so much recovery as well..
reflect- on whiff, you're dead. simple.
shoulder- asdfhgjkljhlk hai, one safe move.

Kenshi has teleflurry. anything more than half of jump i think is safe. abuse abuse abuse and mix up with overhead special and lift.

Totally willing to nod my head yes to this if you can prove his axe is punishable on block.

 

[leek]

OH MY GOD :/

here
nightwolf gameplay
http://www.twitch.tv/bifuteki/b/293662676 skip to 1:07:00
dear lord he even does an EX Lightning set up and rain jumps out of it..