LOTF Nightwing MU chart

[Ra Helios]

i can't argue with DD logic. Very possible


Maybe i just need to grind it more with saltface


Its off of all ares I have fought.

Thank God!


Bird Adam MB dive kick whiff punishes everything...

They fucking are!!! Smargasm BA was best I ever played around Final Round time frame and BA hasn't changed. He is still super viable.

I see you play and know you have skills but your mentality is COMPLETELY flawed on so many levels. He doesn't beat BG and there is no fucking way he beats Sinestro.


I'm gonna play Bit tonight and i'll post updates. Your online matches with murk mean nothing to everyone.

I'd love to discuss this. Zod bodies NW and if you havn't played pig 50-100 matches you really really should. The others are not big deals to me honestly and I could totally see it.

I super duper disagree with GA though and thats the only one I really want to discuss. Why does that go 5-5?


I just posted my splits cause I thought it was interesting. I'm not saying its the only right way to play though.

PLAY ME!!!!!
LordYoshee
Accept the challenge Yes or NO!!!!!
Using my friends account.
A lot of Nightwings players that play me think otherwise.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

PLAY ME!!!!!
LordYoshee
Using my friends account.
A lot of Nightwings players that play me think otherwise.

Love to but I still won't judge my MU based on this. I'd rather play bit offline. wouldn't you?

 

[Ra Helios]

Love to but I still won't judge my MU based on this. I'd rather play bit offline. wouldn't you?

Doesn't matter off-line or on-line. If you have a Good connection then good. If we lag then I agree we play off-line. But if Nightwing has a advantage. Then online will make it for a easy win in your favor if you are going to blame the lag.

 

[Ra Helios]

Love to but I still won't judge my MU based on this. I'd rather play bit offline. wouldn't you?

SO if I beat you online which online will be your favor if you blame lag it can't be a 6-4 mu. Or if the mu is close and you beat me it is a still a 5-5. Both characters struggle in this mu.

 

[LiangHuBBB]

ye NW is difficult to beat with DS
almost anything I do can be countered easily

 

[Rickyraws]

I actually think Nightwing Frost is 6-4 possibly 7-3 Nightwing. I only do so well against him due to my raw unbridled skill.






@AK L0rdoftheFLY stop wasting time and watch the movie already. Books don't mean shit in real lyfe.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Doesn't matter off-line or on-line. If you have a Good connection then good. If we lag then I agree we play off-line. But if Nightwing has a advantage. Then online will make it for a easy win in your favor if you are going to blame the lag.

Online always favors the aggressor. Not the MU.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

SO if I beat you online which online will be your favor if you blame lag it can't be a 6-4 mu. Or if the mu is close and you beat me it is a still a 5-5. Both characters struggle in this mu.

Defensive reactionary play is typically at a disadvantage. It's just not the right testing ground. PERIOD

 

[Youphemism]

Ok so firstly, as much as I understand you've done this from best to worst, I have to alphabetize it...(I also corrected a few mistakes)


Aquaman 5-5
NW has better pressure, footsies, and zoning but lacks AM mobility. Am can effectively get around staff zoning and can punish hard on whiffs. Keep him guessing by switching it up and get your timing down with trip guarding jumps. 60% staff 40% escrima

Ares 6-4
NW doesn't really need to move. Ares pressure can be tricky but in general staff d1 might single handedly make this annoying for him. Zone with caution and watch for god smack and tele. 80% staff

Bane 5-5
I used to say 6-4 but Bane is just too good. 113 and wingdings are his saving grace. Learn when to use both and be ready to punish his whiffed specials. Watch his venom. 60% escrima 40% staff.

Batgirl 5-5
Footsies are in NW favor but mobility and damage are in hers. Careful switching from escrima to staff is essential. Jump back 1 in staff is your best friend. Oki her from sweep distance or farther. 80% staff 20% escrima

Batman 5-5
GS goes under his trait and keeps him from approaching easily so use that often. If he is jumping in after trait you can j3 wingding for quick and easy damage. Push block when he pressures you with trait and zone him to keep life lead. 80% Escrima
20% staff

BA 4-6
Still a beast that outdamages and outfootsies most of cast. Bird Adam with meter is a pain in the ass. NW has options but it isn't easy for him. 90% Staff. Best in jump distance range.

Catwoman 6-4
She dominates escrima so switch cautiously but switch ASAP. I like jump 1 vs her due to start up and downward hitbox. D1 staff spin beats her cat dash and allows you the chance to do chip and force her to take risks. I play very lame 100% in staff besides the occasional knockdown into gs.

Cyborg 3-7
Isn't it obvious how bad this is? Iafb and gfb zoning own him. Cyborg can use his pressure to gain space as well up close making everything a guess and a risk for NW. Interactables are stupid. Escrima

Deathstroke 6-4
Staff oki I feel wins him the match. I can easily blow up all ds wakeups while zoning is pretty even. Watch for mb shots and don't get put in the corner against ds. This could be 5-5 and I wouldn't be mad. 70% staff

Doomsday 6-4
Online this is a bitch because I have to be patient and block (impossible). Offline I can stuff his options with staff oki. NW has the + frames he needs to keep DD out. 90% staff

Flash 5-5
Poke with quick Normals like staff 1 d1 1b1 b1. Bait movement and punish. I like to push block so I don't have to deal with 50-50. Switch often but stay mindful of your options and punishes in each. 50/50 in both stances

Green Arrow 7-3
NW wins in both stances fairly easily. The struggle is real.

GL 4-6
Zoning with smart trait usage is problematic for NW cause you can't touch him. Recognize when he is and isn't in trait and use his patterns against him. Learn how to block his mixups on knockdown and oki effectively. 60% esc 40% staff

Grundy 6-4
Run and don't get grabbed. Lol staff might be best but escrima works too.

Harley 4-6
Damage is great and zoning is very difficult to get around. Her 50/50 are hard to react to also. I might change it to 5-5 but right now I feel like her zoning mixups are hard to read and move in on. 90% Escrima

HG 4-6
Understanding when to move and when to punish is counter-intuitive to every other character in the game. Learn how to oki and punish her wakeups. 60% escrima 40% staff

Joker 6-4
Footsies and zoning smart are the most important things, but I feel they are much stronger than Jokers options there. I switch my stances 50/50.

Killer Frost 4-6
Her damage is super underrated and with her 50-50s she can be very dangerous...parry wtf? Oh and her projectile is damaging and pushes you full screen. I tend to stay in staff on the ground but I honestly don't have enough MU exp here.

Lex 6-4
NW can win zone war and almost always get rid of his trait before he gets in. Trip guards and FG are very important. Fg goes through his body if he dashes toward you with trait leaving you safe and him taking damage. Keep zoning. 60% staff.

Lobo 5-5
Footsies are about even and his damage is crazy. He can punish regular wingdings with shells so you have to zone very carefully. Don't let him in. 90% escrima

MMH 5-5
Staff wins footsie war and zoning war. Mmh has interactables. Learn how to block his ghetto resets and bullshit hitbox teleports and the match is surprisingly even. NW has great post tele options with Staff spin and gp mb. 90% staff

Raven 5-5
Interesting yet super annoying MU here. In staff you can't do anything against constant projectiles except 4 gs or work your way in and mb b3. You can trade well if she soul crushes on block but you got to wait. In escrima gs goes under projectiles but gets bodied by reflect and sc. Stay switching and win the zoning meta. 50/50 both stances

Scorpion 7-3
Staff d1 punishes everything known to man in Scorpions world. Flip kick both teleports, b2. It's hard for Scorp to get both damage and momentum unless you just haven't played much Scorp. 90% staff

Shazam 7-3
You outfootsie him everywhere making him have to be reckless to get in and get damage. Similar to Scorp you can punish all his advances for big damage so just be patient and win. 90% staff

Sinestro 4-6
Not hard for him to get out trait which ends the game. Only way to get in is to stay on the ground and dash cautiously around FB. Using GS, You only get 1-2 dashes depending on distance. Don't get greedy. Clash and transition intelligently, and avoid his trait when ever possible. 80% escrima

Superman 4-6
This could be 5-5 honestly. His zoning is easier to get around these days and his footsies are not godlike. F23 breath and f2 breath can interrupted by 113 both mid screen and corner making his pressure not as good. He has to zone to win. Watch out for divebombs and get used to moving cautiously. 60% staff 40% escrima

WW 5-5
I love this MU. Staff beats lasso, shield beats staff, escrima beats shield, lasso beats escrima. Life lead changes this but a close match will have both players trying to get the other stuck in one of the stances theirs counters at a given time. Staff lasso footsies match is very fun and tends to be what happens most often due to comfort of WW players.

Zatanna 4-6
Her zoning is a huge problem and her mixups and resets can be huge. Best to get momentum early and keep pressure. Faint with d1 to bait movement and be ready.

Zod 3-7
My most common MU. Interactables destroy NW here and make the damage game weigh heavily in zods favor. Zoning isn't really the issue...in fact if Zod only zones without interactables or trait mixups, NW can win the zoning war. Rare though. 90% escrima

You forgot the Nightwing matchup

I agree with the BG and WoWo numbers though

 

[Laos_boy]

Ra Helios is here....

 

[BigMilk]

One thing about the Raven-Nightwing mu that's pretty huge is him bodying her on knockdown. I also think it's possible he could beat her. Also everything you've already said is spot on.

I have felt as though NW could possibly beat Raven. I also feel he beats DS and Bane. This chart is really good. im also excited for you to play bit and get a better understanding of this MU. It will bring clarity to alot of the ignorance related to this MU. I have always felt that NW wins this MU with lame defensive tactics(which I agree is tougher online) even when losing to really good CW players it never changed my opinion, just felt I was outplayed. Looking forward to your MU breakdown on CW and Bane.

 

[Filipino Man]

It's a lot of bullshit when Nightwing players come up to me saying "Staff beats Lasso, Lasso beats Escrima, Escrima beats Shield, Shield beats Staff".

It's not true lol.

Lasso stance DESTROYS Escrima stance, so Nightwing would prefer to go into staff, but even in staff, Nightwing is at disadvantage.
Shield stance DESTROYS Staff stance, so Nightwing would rather go into Escrima, but shield stance is still at advantage versus Escrima.

There is at no point in the match where Wonder Woman loses risk + reward. Wonder Woman controls every situation at every moment unless you have like Alley dumpster or Hall of Justice ground thingy in a roll, but even then Wonder Woman has ways out and ways to keep safe pressure that Nightwing has to take a risk to get out of. Wonder Woman just controls too much of the screen and movement, which is definitely his most evident weaknesses.

Definitely a hard 6-4, nearing 7-3 in Wonder Woman's favor.

 

[Youphemism]

It's a lot of bullshit when Nightwing players come up to me saying "Staff beats Lasso, Lasso beats Escrima, Escrima beats Shield, Shield beats Staff".

It's not true lol.

Lasso stance DESTROYS Escrima stance, so Nightwing would prefer to go into staff, but even in staff, Nightwing is at disadvantage.
Shield stance DESTROYS Staff stance, so Nightwing would rather go into Escrima, but shield stance is still at advantage versus Escrima.

There is at no point in the match where Wonder Woman loses risk + reward. Wonder Woman controls every situation at every moment unless you have like Alley dumpster or Hall of Justice ground thingy in a roll, but even then Wonder Woman has ways out and ways to keep safe pressure that Nightwing has to take a risk to get out of. Wonder Woman just controls too much of the screen and movement, which is definitely his most evident weaknesses.

Definitely a hard 6-4, nearing 7-3 in Wonder Woman's favor.

You apologised to Hysteria though

 

[Akromaniac27]

It's a lot of bullshit when Nightwing players come up to me saying "Staff beats Lasso, Lasso beats Escrima, Escrima beats Shield, Shield beats Staff".

It's not true lol.

Lasso stance DESTROYS Escrima stance, so Nightwing would prefer to go into staff, but even in staff, Nightwing is at disadvantage.
Shield stance DESTROYS Staff stance, so Nightwing would rather go into Escrima, but shield stance is still at advantage versus Escrima.

There is at no point in the match where Wonder Woman loses risk + reward. Wonder Woman controls every situation at every moment unless you have like Alley dumpster or Hall of Justice ground thingy in a roll, but even then Wonder Woman has ways out and ways to keep safe pressure that Nightwing has to take a risk to get out of. Wonder Woman just controls too much of the screen and movement, which is definitely his most evident weaknesses.

Definitely a hard 6-4, nearing 7-3 in Wonder Woman's favor.

I wouldn't go as far as saying destroys unless you're making the perfect reads all match long, but I do feel WW has the upper hand. On knockdown, both characters give each other hell, mind you any and every character can just block WW and punish at will. Her d3 is a guess which won't always favor her in this MU since MBflip kick can and will blow it up if read. That stuff aside, WW's damage and footise range is what tilts it to her favor ultimately IF she has the life lead. Is she doesn't, its not hard for her to bring it back, but NW can troll her and lame her out. She will be forced to eat chip along the way, or she'll get hit and thrown back for being reckless. Unlike her, he can zone and create trip guards to exploit her moving in. Parry is another factor that helps her out, but mainly in sword stance because the gaps aren't large enough for bracelets

 

[rev0lver]

Lex 6-4
NW can win zone war and almost always get rid of his trait before he gets in. Trip guards and FG are very important. Fg goes through his body if he dashes toward you with trait leaving u safe and him taking damage. Keep zoning. 60% staff.

No offense but I disagree with like all of this. You win the zoning war technically, but that's not the point. All I have to look for is space to give me a trait setup. Against staff zoning all I need to do is get within a jumping range, where you have to make a read or either get punished or I get my trait. I can also air charge staff zoning from a good distance, which is nice for me. I don't think I've ever had FG go through me with trait either, maybe it happens sometimes, but otherwise if I do something like trait forward dash and you FG during that, I can punish you. I can also punish FG pretty easily regardless. I don't know what you mean by "almost always gets rid of trait before he gets in" either.

 

[Shaazzyam]

Sigh

How are raw-ass staff spin and groundpound great options post-oh tele if i can punish them by jumping?

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

No offense but I disagree with like all of this. You win the zoning war technically, but that's not the point. All I have to look for is space to give me a trait setup. Against staff zoning all I need to do is get within a jumping range, where you have to make a read or either get punished or I get my trait. I can also air charge staff zoning from a good distance, which is nice for me. I don't think I've ever had FG go through me with trait either, maybe it happens sometimes, but otherwise if I do something like trait forward dash and you FG during that, I can punish you. I can also punish FG pretty easily regardless. I don't know what you mean by "almost always gets rid of trait before he gets in" either.

I take it all back.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

It's a lot of bullshit when Nightwing players come up to me saying "Staff beats Lasso, Lasso beats Escrima, Escrima beats Shield, Shield beats Staff".

It's not true lol.

Lasso stance DESTROYS Escrima stance, so Nightwing would prefer to go into staff, but even in staff, Nightwing is at disadvantage.
Shield stance DESTROYS Staff stance, so Nightwing would rather go into Escrima, but shield stance is still at advantage versus Escrima.

There is at no point in the match where Wonder Woman loses risk + reward. Wonder Woman controls every situation at every moment unless you have like Alley dumpster or Hall of Justice ground thingy in a roll, but even then Wonder Woman has ways out and ways to keep safe pressure that Nightwing has to take a risk to get out of. Wonder Woman just controls too much of the screen and movement, which is definitely his most evident weaknesses.

Definitely a hard 6-4, nearing 7-3 in Wonder Woman's favor.

Well if I disagree with you, can I call your explanation not true?

I mean. I could see it as 6-4 but honestly only way I'll agree is if we can play and I hope we can.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Sigh

How are raw-ass staff spin and groundpound great options post-oh tele if i can punish them by jumping?

I'm referring to backdashing and mb b3 so yeah...they are great post tele options.

Plus I can b1 you or j1 to beat your jump.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Updates with my matches from GGA on Tuesday and how they reflect the OP.

Catwoman NW is probably still 6-4.
@GGA 16 Bit took more matches in our set but I had my share of wins with lots of close games. We discussed it and it comes down to patients. By the end of the set I was blocking all his advancing pressure and he would get damage because I was playing too aggressive. We talked about the Infamous Slips Ghost NW and when it comes down to it, NW out footsies her and can get block pressure and tons of chip after everything she does to push her back mid screen. Just don't get greedy.

Superman NW still 4-6
@GGA Saucy Jack has gotten really good with him. Being my first set of the night I was super rusty and on online timing but even as I got my timing and stopped dropping, this is obviously 6-4 but no worse. Made me rage a couple times...good shit.

Hawk Girl NW 6-4
@GGA pimpimjim made me want to say 7-3 cause FUCK HG but no seriously its 4-6. Even though Trey lives in ATL I don't have many games logged vs him. With about 200 more games logged vs PPJ I could see myself getting very competitive in it. That said, I still won some and had a blast playing him.

Green Arrow NW undecided 7-3 or 6-4
Again Saucy Jack has hella leveled up. One of the best GA I have ever played and made me really have to focus to win. The more I zoned the better the outcomes were for me.

Upset I didn't get to play @Kyu. I didn't even know that was you LOL!!! next time? haha

Also I was so happy to see my boy DQ Beats!!! Glad you came out man.

It was great to see all you guys like @GGA HAN @GGA Jeremiah and all.

 

[Braindead]

Updates with my matches from GGA on Tuesday and how they reflect the OP.

Catwoman NW is probably still 6-4.
@GGA 16 Bit took more matches in our set but I had my share of wins with lots of close games. We discussed it and it comes down to patients. By the end of the set I was blocking all his advancing pressure and he would get damage because I was playing too aggressive. We talked about the Infamous Slips Ghost NW and when it comes down to it, NW out footsies her and can get block pressure and tons of chip after everything she does to push her back mid screen. Just don't get greedy.

Superman NW still 4-6
@GGA Saucy Jack has gotten really good with him. Being my first set of the night I was super rusty and on online timing but even as I got my timing and stopped dropping, this is obviously 6-4 but no worse. Made me rage a couple times...good shit.

Hawk Girl NW 6-4
@GGA pimpimjim made me want to say 7-3 cause FUCK HG but no seriously its 4-6. Even though Trey lives in ATL I don't have many games logged vs him. With about 200 more games logged vs PPJ I could see myself getting very competitive in it. That said, I still won some and had a blast playing him.

Green Arrow NW undecided 7-3 or 6-4
Again Saucy Jack has hella leveled up. One of the best GA I have ever played and made me really have to focus to win. The more I zoned the better the outcomes were for me.

Upset I didn't get to play @Kyu. I didn't even know that was you LOL!!! next time? haha

Also I was so happy to see my boy DQ Beats!!! Glad you came out man.

It was great to see all you guys like @GGA HAN @GGA Jeremiah and all.

No footage?

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I can't believe I forgot devil and Greece! Not sure of tag but nice lobo man. What are your thoughts on this MU?

Can anyone help me tag him?

And Greece (I forgot his handle all together lol)

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

No footage?

no the setup wasn't ideal and there was no internet. Just memories

 

[Kyu]

Updates with my matches from GGA on Tuesday and how they reflect the OP.

Catwoman NW is probably still 6-4.
@GGA 16 Bit took more matches in our set but I had my share of wins with lots of close games. We discussed it and it comes down to patients. By the end of the set I was blocking all his advancing pressure and he would get damage because I was playing too aggressive. We talked about the Infamous Slips Ghost NW and when it comes down to it, NW out footsies her and can get block pressure and tons of chip after everything she does to push her back mid screen. Just don't get greedy.

Superman NW still 4-6
@GGA Saucy Jack has gotten really good with him. Being my first set of the night I was super rusty and on online timing but even as I got my timing and stopped dropping, this is obviously 6-4 but no worse. Made me rage a couple times...good shit.

Hawk Girl NW 6-4
@GGA pimpimjim made me want to say 7-3 cause FUCK HG but no seriously its 4-6. Even though Trey lives in ATL I don't have many games logged vs him. With about 200 more games logged vs PPJ I could see myself getting very competitive in it. That said, I still won some and had a blast playing him.

Green Arrow NW undecided 7-3 or 6-4
Again Saucy Jack has hella leveled up. One of the best GA I have ever played and made me really have to focus to win. The more I zoned the better the outcomes were for me.

Upset I didn't get to play @Kyu. I didn't even know that was you LOL!!! next time? haha

Also I was so happy to see my boy DQ Beats!!! Glad you came out man.

It was great to see all you guys like @GGA HAN @GGA Jeremiah and all.

Would absolutely love to run it with you next time. I was caught up in the learning the Supes MU and beating Lobo to a bloody pulp as Bane does.

 

[Kyu]

I can't believe I forgot devil and Greece! Not sure of tag but nice lobo man. What are your thoughts on this MU?

Can anyone help me tag him?

And Greece (I forgot his handle all together lol)

Devil is actually still waiting for his TYM account approval I think.