Calling all Vets....

[Fractured_Shadow]

First and foremost lets keep this cival and please, ffs, if you are a 16 year old kid who has never served in the armed forces or dont have any clue as to what is going on in Iraq please just refrain from giving me eye cancer.

I fought in Iraq in 2006 as an infantry man with the Marine Corps.

I lost good friends, some to combat and others to depression and suicide after returning stateside. I bled in the sand, I fought in that sand, and I liberated people in that hell hole and it was seemingly pointless given the current resurgence of militants that are actively hunting innocent civilans, and to say the least I am mad as fuck. We pull out in 2011 and in 3 fucking years we are right back to square 1 and are bombing again. What. The. Hell.

Now we find ourselves in a fucked if we help and fucked if we dont situation.

Just curious on everyones (well not "everyones") opinions, and curious if all my brothers out there that spent time fighting feel similar.

Edit: Im also very curious to hear from are foreign members so we can compaire opinons and views as well.

 

[Eldriken]

I'm not a vet, nor do I currently have an opinion on the matter, but I do have something I'd like to say:

Thanks for everything that you do for our country.

 

[Derptile]

Better that we don't help. They hate us over on that side of the world and that's fine by me, but don't expect to receive any help after giving us shit.

 

[Clark L.]

I'm not a vet, nor do I currently have an opinion on the matter, but I do have something I'd like to say:

Thanks for everything that you do for our country.

Seconded

 

[Rodrigue]

Better that we don't help.

Agree with that.

They hate us over on that side of the world

You sir, just made my day. Now excuse me while I go bang my head against a freaking wall.

 

[TaffyMeat]

Perhaps change the thread title. I thought you needed a veterinarian.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Thank you for your services. I have nothing but respect for those who do what you do. I'm definitely not a vet so I don't know how it must feel to lose a lot of friends and be back in war 3 years after you thought it was all over. It must really suck...

Better that we don't help. They hate us over on that side of the world and that's fine by me, but don't expect to receive any help after giving us shit.

No shit they hate the people who bombed their country. No matter the reason, even if it was in the intention of helping them/free the country of Iraq, if you're a kid and you watch your loved ones die because of war then you will hate the world in general and especially those who orchestrated the bombings of your home.

Terrorism isn't something you can eradicate. The young people in 2003 who experienced war have now grown older and have a lot of resentment and hate towards the US or the world in general. You can't really blame them either considering how many of them died of cancer and how many mothers had birth defects because of radiation left overs.

You can't blame the US army either because they aren't in charge of themselves. They are only serving the country and following orders. Risking their lives to help others, save lives and bring peace. If you blame anyone it should be the supreme commanders or the Commander-in-chief I guess. Which according to Article II, Section 2, Clause I of the Constitution, is the President of the United States. Which at the time was George W. Bush. He is mostly responsible for the bad strategic decisions made in 2001-2003. But I don't know enough about it to know if the president really has the final say or not when it comes to the armed forces actions.

Doesn't matter anyway who's fault it really is. Not much good ever comes out of war. Even in victory you will have too much innocent casualties..

 

[BRUTALITY]

war sucks, theres nothing cool or heroic about it, if all wars began with the Head Honcho on the frontline, no war would be declared.

 

[4x4lo8o]

I served in the Navy and don't have an opinion on Iraq that I'm interested in discussing on TYM, just checking in to collect all the instant "thank you for your service" props

 

[cyke_out]

I served 10 years in the Air Force, I was medical so I never saw any action only the aftermath. I worked directly with injured airmen and soldiers as they returned from the sandbox, missing limbs or with third degree burns. I got out to give my family a stable home and to continue my education, but I have a deep respect for my fellow warriors who put thier life on the line when it was called, regardless of how I and they felt on the merits on the mission.

 

[EarlyReflections]

Stop the war. Everywhere.-

 

[Zoidberg747]

Disclaimer: Not a veteran, appreciate those that are. These are only my opinions.

From a logical perspective: Letting ISIS run free is a really terrible idea. Some people think we should just leave them alone because they won't be focused on us, but the problem is as soon as they have their new caliphate they will head straight for the Western world. And if they go unchecked they will have much more resources and fighters than Al Qaeda ever had. I dont think the airstrikes right now are really an issue since they are specifically targeting ISIS militants and most civilians have fled to the mountains. Starting a full fledged war is a different story, and I don't think it would be a good idea. I also agree with the U.S. saying Iraq must change its government structure to allow for minorities to have a say, but I dont know the chances of that happening.

From an emotional perspective: ISIS beheads women and children, kill em all.

 

[aldazo]

...and I liberated people in that hell hole .

I thought you and the rest went to Irak because there were "weapons of mass destruction" that couldn't affect USA people "security". So you went to liberate people, uh? Good job there.

 

[ZigZag]

First off i'm not a military person myself, but that doesn't excuse the fact that what i'm about to say is simple and there's no other truth to it.

Russia failed, We failed. That country is full of horrible people corrupted by terror and in some ways its religion.
It's not really our problem, there's no reason to go there in the first place.

 

[BRUTALITY]

I thought you and the rest went to Irak because there were "weapons of mass destruction" that couldn't affect USA people "security". So you went to liberate people, uh? Good job there.

he was liberating the WMDs out of existence for our safety

 

[ZigZag]

I thought you and the rest went to Irak because there were "weapons of mass destruction" that couldn't affect USA people "security". So you went to liberate people, uh? Good job there.

Now come on that's not fair dude... The political reasons of going into the country and starting the war does not mean that soldiers from the US & the UK did not actually help people there.
Our soldiers did help alot of people being terrorised by militants that is a fact, the war itself over all was pointless though.

 

[ZigZag]

Perhaps change the thread title. I thought you needed a veterinarian.

SO did I!!!

 

[ZigZag]

Also I have 0 Idea why our country decided it would be a good idea to back you guys up, like we need our men killed over your politics.

Fucking Tony Blaire, fucking politics.
But we are humans, we are savage no matter how we try to coat it with our increased intelligence there are people who want to cause other pain without reason, and there are those who seek to gain from conflict.

 

[YourMKArcadeSource]

I served in the Navy for 6 years and then worked for the Government for 2 more years in Afghanistan. I almost got blown up three separate times by IDFs (indirect fire). That all having been said, there will NEVER...NEVER be peace in the Middle East OR on Earth until Religion (all forms of it) is gone. More people have been killed in the name of God than for any other reason...ever. Take what's going on over there right now. It's all religion based. They are killing and beheading anyone who doesn't convert to their beliefs, including children.

There is no such thing as a "peaceful" religion.

That's my opinion.

 

[Zoidberg747]

I thought you and the rest went to Irak because there were "weapons of mass destruction" that couldn't affect USA people "security". So you went to liberate people, uh? Good job there.

You can't blame the soldiers for following orders. Just because the war was fabricated on a lie does not mean the military didn't help at all.

This lists some of the positives(with some of the supposed positives that turned out not to be true):

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/r/rayreynolds.htm#.U-ajKGPmIbc

 

[aldazo]

Our soldiers did help alot of people being terrorised by militants that is a fact, the war itself over all was pointless though.

What about letting them resolve their own issues instead of bringing war to their lands? Who have the right to do so? Soldiers go to war and fight people because they are told to do so, and they get paid for it, it is their job, I doubt someone join the army for humanitarian reasons. Joining the army is the less efective way to bring peace, that's for sure.

You can't blame the soldiers for following orders.

Yes, I can blame them. You shouldn't follow orders blindly, never, specially if the orders involve taking the life from others. If they didn't join the army then there were no people fighting wars, simple as that

 

[Zoidberg747]

What about letting them resolve their own issues instead of bringing war to their lands? Who have the right to do so? Soldiers go to war and fight people because they are told to do so, and they get paid for it, it is their job, I doubt someone join the army for humanitarian reasons. Joining the army is the less efective way to bring peace, that's for sure.

How can you possibly know someone's reasons for joining the army or any other military? Sure some people do it for the power and killing but many more do it in order to make a difference in the world. If you dont believe the army does anything humanitarian you should read these.

http://www.globalhumanitarianassistance.org/countryprofile/united-states
http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/concepts_humanitarian.html#involve

If you want a current example the United States military is currently air dropping supplies to displaced refugees in Iraq. Just google it and you will find 100 stories about it.

Note: I am not trying to imply that other military factions that are not in the U.S. do not also give humanitarian aid. In fact that second link breaks down how most military branches will give aid and how they do it. I am only referring to the U.S. actions specifically because the U.S. army was the one he was calling out.

 

[ZigZag]

What about letting them resolve their own issues instead of bringing war to their lands? Who have the right to do so? Soldiers go to war and fight people because they are told to do so, and they get paid for it, it is their job, I doubt someone join the army for humanitarian reasons. Joining the army is the less efective way to bring peace, that's for sure.

You're not all wrong here, yeah people don't join the army purely to try and fight the problems of the world, and yeah there was no good reason to go in, but you can't be such an ignorant person to believe the first thing you heard on the news can you?

 

[Ninj]

You can't blame the soldiers for following orders.

The soldiers in Hitler's army were just following orders as well. That's not a valid argument!

Our soldiers have a duty to uphold the spirit of their training and the spirit of their purpose. If there are ethical and moral reasons to disobey orders, such as bombing areas that have civilian populations, then it is their duty to disobey that order and, if brought to it, leave the military.

"Why" is the most important part of anything anybody does. I say that intentionally as a blanket statement.

This isn't to say I don't believe that military can accomplish great things - with the proper motivation and truthful information surrounding the mission, we can accomplish much. But war is anything but simple - all plans are perfect until the first arrow flies. Mistakes happen, people with conflicting interests inside the military itself cause internal chaos, leading to events that may be isolated incidents but end up painting a perception of the whole. Because of this, I don't think war in [insert any country] will ever accomplish the goal that it sets out to achieve.

@Fractured_Shadow thank you for what you've done, and those you know and those you knew did. I'm certain the majority of those who go into the military want to uphold peace and to help people. It's disgusting to me the way our country treats Veterans. Even if the war isn't just, or politics is driving this or that, at the end of the day it's the soldiers who put their lives on the line for a cause they may or may not totally believe in for a myriad of reasons we can never know completely. They deserve our respect, and they deserve the physical, emotional, financial, and mental assistance they need in order to live their lives again after coming back.

As an aside, our species is not capable of living without war. Maybe in a thousand years, but we won't make it that long - we're just smart enough to do real damage (to ourselves).

 

[Zoidberg747]

The soldiers in Hitler's army were just following orders as well. That's not a valid argument!

Our soldiers have a duty to uphold the spirit of their training and the spirit of their purpose. If there are ethical and moral reasons to disobey orders, such as bombing areas that have civilian populations, then it is their duty to disobey that order and, if brought to it, leave the military.

"Why" is the most important part of anything anybody does. I say that intentionally as a blanket statement.

This isn't to say I don't believe that military can accomplish great things - with the proper motivation and truthful information surrounding the mission, we can accomplish much. But war is anything but simple - all plans are perfect until the first arrow flies. Mistakes happen, people with conflicting interests inside the military itself cause internal chaos, leading to events that may be isolated incidents but end up painting a perception of the whole. Because of this, I don't think war in [insert any country] will ever accomplish the goal that it sets out to achieve.

@Fractured_Shadow thank you for what you've done, and those you know and those you knew did. I'm certain the majority of those who go into the military want to uphold peace and to help people. It's disgusting to me the way our country treats Veterans. Even if the war isn't just, or politics is driving this or that, at the end of the day it's the soldiers who put their lives on the line for a cause they may or may not totally believe in for a myriad of reasons we can never know completely. They deserve our respect, and they deserve the physical, emotional, financial, and mental assistance they need in order to live their lives again after coming back.

As an aside, our species is not capable of living without war. Maybe in a thousand years, but we won't make it that long - we're just smart enough to do real damage (to ourselves).

I worded that incorrectly, I meant to say you can't blame the soldiers for the poor decision making of the U.S. government. There were a few war crimes in that war but for the most part the servicemen and women fought in order to bring Iraqi people freedom, and I didn't think it was fair to blame them for that not occurring. I do understand what you are saying though.