Calling all Vets....

[EarlyReflections]

so many things to say here... My head will explode

 

[ZigZag]

The soldiers in Hitler's army were just following orders as well. That's not a valid argument!

Our soldiers have a duty to uphold the spirit of their training and the spirit of their purpose. If there are ethical and moral reasons to disobey orders, such as bombing areas that have civilian populations, then it is their duty to disobey that order and, if brought to it, leave the military.

"Why" is the most important part of anything anybody does. I say that intentionally as a blanket statement.

This isn't to say I don't believe that military can accomplish great things - with the proper motivation and truthful information surrounding the mission, we can accomplish much. But war is anything but simple - all plans are perfect until the first arrow flies. Mistakes happen, people with conflicting interests inside the military itself cause internal chaos, leading to events that may be isolated incidents but end up painting a perception of the whole. Because of this, I don't think war in [insert any country] will ever accomplish the goal that it sets out to achieve.

@Fractured_Shadow thank you for what you've done, and those you know and those you knew did. I'm certain the majority of those who go into the military want to uphold peace and to help people. It's disgusting to me the way our country treats Veterans. Even if the war isn't just, or politics is driving this or that, at the end of the day it's the soldiers who put their lives on the line for a cause they may or may not totally believe in for a myriad of reasons we can never know completely. They deserve our respect, and they deserve the physical, emotional, financial, and mental assistance they need in order to live their lives again after coming back.

As an aside, our species is not capable of living without war. Maybe in a thousand years, but we won't make it that long - we're just smart enough to do real damage (to ourselves).

Sorry Ninj but things have changed not so much in 70 years.
The soldiers of the german army had their orders, so do the US people of your country.
Both soldiers do these things, they both kill people.
They both fear disobeying and order.
And if you refuse you may be doing something noble... but someone else is there to do it.

 

[kabelfritz]

First and foremost lets keep this cival and please, ffs, if you are a 16 year old kid who has never served in the armed forces or dont have any clue as to what is going on in Iraq please just refrain from giving me eye cancer.

I fought in Iraq in 2006 as an infantry man with the Marine Corps.

I lost good friends, some to combat and others to depression and suicide after returning stateside. I bled in the sand, I fought in that sand, and I liberated people in that hell hole and it was seemingly pointless given the current resurgence of militants that are actively hunting innocent civilans, and to say the least I am mad as fuck. We pull out in 2011 and in 3 fucking years we are right back to square 1 and are bombing again. What. The. Hell.

Now we find ourselves in a fucked if we help and fucked if we dont situation.

Just curious on everyones (well not "everyones") opinions, and curious if all my brothers out there that spent time fighting feel similar.

Edit: Im also very curious to hear from are foreign members so we can compaire opinons and views as well.

it seems theres waay too much bullshit going on in this region to ever become stable, every attempt of democratization is overran by some morons with guns. and it wont ever stop as long as innocent people are being killed and somebody sells/gives weapons to random people who seem helpful in the moment you have a common enemy. maybe the us strikes can at least help to prevent a genocide. and if its a precisely led war with no civilian victims it actually might help the long-term developement in iraq. if not, the same circle will repeat forever (come to bring peace/"liberate" -> accidently kill innocents -> leave their familiy members/friends open to radicalization and become the next terrorists, with the help of weapons you gave to "allies" who no longer exist)

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Ironically the region was relatively stable when Saddam Hussein was in charge. He was a dictator but maybe a dictator is what you need to keep the religious extremists humble and quiet. Sunnis and Shiites seriously feared him.

 

[kabelfritz]

Ironically the region was relatively stable when Saddam Hussein was in charge. He was a dictator but maybe a dictator is what you need to keep the religious extremists humble and quiet. Sunnis and Shiites seriously feared him.

well thats been the western politics for so many years in iraq, lybia, syria, egypt etc.. but you can see what a good part of the inhabitants thought of these rulers now... doesnt change that theres massive differences (and conflicts) among the population, conservative islamic vs globalized people, sunnites vs shiites, and whatever else, which surface as the oppression is gone. and no grown democratic/pluralistic culture to handle all interests. i swear this region is gonna keep the whole world busy for at least decades to come.