Will fighting games ever be Esports/mainstream?

[NoobHunter420]

NO.
I been following the FGC for about a year or so, mostly for the injustice tournaments.
I never quite understood why the there was little to no viewers.
Fighting games take an insane amount of work to learn.
when you don't know the fighting game it just looks like spam.
another issue is that fighting games die quick, real quick.
Games like Heartstone and LOL are destined to have the crazy view counts because devs keeps adding content and enhancing the user's experience,.I don't see this happening any time soon with fighting games.

I just wanted to hear what the guys that have been around for a lot longer think.

 

[Shark Tank]

Majors get 20 k about average, it's not too bad. Now when you look at the big "esports" games...

LOL is destined to have crazy viewer counts because Riot entirely funds, regulates and markets the shit out of their esports scene.

Dota 2 client was pretty much entirely built around being a spectator sport, with Dota tv, tournament advertisements, the TI, in game items, documentaries etc...

Hearthstone was made by a company with a big fanbase around WOW and hearthstone is hella easy to pick up...and easy to master. Also attracted a lot of magic players since there are some big benefits for having a card based game go digital, and the online version of MTG wasn't that great from what I heard. Regardless, all Blizzard games sell really well. It also has a benefit on online/offline not being an issue at all since lag is irrelevant to the game which hurts FGs.

2/3 games are big in Korea in which PC games are a sport, shown on tv, etc.

Dota is is the same in China. Gets on TV, players are payed a salary.

If I had to guess it can come to a lot of factors, how the scene is marketed, if the game supports competitive play, and if the fanbase is open to it. I think PC fanbases are more open to esports, and their companies do more to encourage esports features.


I'd also like to add the online tournaments for these games are much more prevalent than FGs because lag is not as nearly an issue when we're talking mobas...or a turn based card game. Even SC can get away with some lag. Fgs scene revolves around offline tournaments and a lot of people don't want to travel.

Aside form what I said above, I don't see why they can't get bigger. Fgs are naturally easy to follow since you don't have to worry about missing action, things that plague FPS or mobas. They also are pretty flashy. When you add up all the players that play any FG they're not insignificant.

 

[THTB]

I'm surprised they haven't, but I'm also not.

I'm surprised mainly because, barring frantic games like Marvel, they are extremely easy to watch. Ignoring the technical stuff, fighting games are literally deplete life bar to zero, and having a larger amount of resource meter puts you at an advantage, corners are the equivalent to being near your goal line in football, etc. It's really simple to watch without ever taking the time to actually learn because the information you need to know is easy to understand. I saw this first hand while watching EVO with a friend of my brother, who knows pretty much nothing about fighting games beyond mashing and that combos exist. With some small moments of explanation, he pretty much understood what the hell was going on the entire time we watched Street Fighter. With MOBAs, you have to seriously know the game to understand who is winning, since there's no clear-cut explanation. There's several different scores to take account into, and even knowing that, you still have to know exactly how the characters being used operate to understand when things are looking up or down. So it's weird that MOBAs have such a high viewership in comparison.

On the other hand, the non-surprising part comes in with how the scene appears to be. No one, aside from a small handful, actually seems to want fighting games to take off like that. Which is weird, because everything else is really rising up. I mean, ESPN is seriously looking to broadcast more video game events now due to DotA2's success. Even despite the past ventures flopping with the FGC, it's strange that the scene doesn't actually appear to want a positive change like this to happen.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

another issue is that fighting games die quick, real quick.

I know right? I mean, shit. SF4 is deader than the Deathstroke Anti-Nerf Coalition.

 

[RelentlessOhio]

I know right? I mean, shit. SF4 is deader than the Deathstroke Anti-Nerf Coalition.

They just don't last anymore like they did back in the days of arcades. But then again shit like MMORPG's, MOBA's, and FPS genres weren't even around.

 

[NoobHunter420]

I know right? I mean, shit. SF4 is deader than the Deathstroke Anti-Nerf Coalition.

you realize that ultra is like the 4th iteration of the game, most fighting games don't get that treatment.
even ultra looks like shit compared to other games view count, look at hearthstone has always people 5k+ viewers watching ranked play.

 

[Vengeance135]

I think if FGs get supported more from the devs and garner a stronger following its possible. One of the major problems imo isthe devs taking advantage of the communities by making incomplete games and selling reiterated versions instead of putting the mega ton of time they used to put in to develop it. Hopefully it does and I'm still young enough to play.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

2000 entrants for USF4, 10k spectators and 140'000 stream monsters on srkevo1 alone (not counting IGN and nico nico). I would said that's already e-sports status but nowhere near mainstream.

To become "mainstream" I think you would need a IOS/mobile/facebook cross-platform fighting game that is so simple to understand and get into that you could play competitive matches with your mom lol. It would need to be a very casual party game that almost anyone can relate to.

But to expand the FGC scene, you just need accessible fighting games that appeals to mid-level players but that low level players can still pick up and enjoy without too much trouble. Aris made some good points in his ATP podcast. Basically saying he doesn't like how needlessly complex Tekken games have become over the years and saying the series needs to go back to the more simple gameplay of T4. Where the game isn't so much about long complicated combos, rage and just-frame EWGFs. but more about what happens before and after a combo.

But at the same time you want flashy stuff that brings hype to the viewers. And usually that flashy hype comes from the super difficult combos that the average player can't perform. So there's kind of a dilemma here where you want your games to be as noob friendly as possible but not to the point where you can't be impressed by anything high level players do anymore.

 

[Vengeance135]

2000 entrants for USF4, 10k spectators and 14'000 stream monsters on srkevo1 alone (not counting IGN and nico nico). I would said that's already e-sports status but nowhere near mainstream.

To become "mainstream" I think you would need a IOS/mobile/facebook cross-platform fighting game that is so simple to understand and get into that you could play competitive matches with your mom lol. It would need to be a very casual party game that almost anyone can relate to.

But to expand the FGC scene, you just need accessible fighting games that appeals to mid-level players but that low level players can still pick up and enjoy without too much trouble. Aris made some good points in his ATP podcast. Basically saying he doesn't like how needlessly complex Tekken games have become over the years and saying the series needs to go back to the more simple gameplay of T4. Where the game isn't so much about long complicated combos and just-frame EWGFs. but more about what happens before and after a combo.

But at the same time you want flashy stuff that brings hype to the viewers. And usually that flashy hype comes from the super difficult combos that the average player can't perform. So there's kind of a dilemma here where you want your games to be as noob friendly as possible but not to the point where you can't be impressed by anything high level players do anymore.

Dude I miss the tekken days where a 5 hit combo was dope and an EWGF was the most godlike thing In the world. I love and grew up on tekken and, though I still play it, I am disappointed in the past few tekkens. The rage system and bound system is complete bull imo

 

[VOR]

The question for me is, would I even want fighting games to be mainstream? I honestly appreciate the fact that it's a niche market.

 

[Crathen]

Dude I miss the tekken days where a 5 hit combo was dope and an EWGF was the most godlike thing In the world. I love and grew up on tekken and, though I still play it, I am disappointed in the past few tekkens. The rage system and bound system is complete bull imo

I miss this kind of Tekken

On topic i think it's a delicate situation , if we want to be mainstream then the new FGs have to slowly introduce and explain the mechanics to new players in without frontloading the massive amount of info you need to play at a good level , then you can have a big pool of players actually searching for streams / gameplay / offline tournaments to get to the Esports / mainstream numbers.

 

[Vengeance135]

Dude smh that brought a tear to my eye. The simple times when skill actually mattered. Btw now that I think about it why has dat n**** Bryan always been so top tier

 

[LaidbackOne]

NO.
I been following the FGC for about a year or so, mostly for the injustice tournaments.
I never quite understood why the there was little to no viewers.
Fighting games take an insane amount of work to learn.
when you don't know the fighting game it just looks like spam.
another issue is that fighting games die quick, real quick.
Games like Heartstone and LOL are destined to have the crazy view counts because devs keeps adding content and enhancing the user's experience,.I don't see this happening any time soon with fighting games.

I just wanted to hear what the guys that have been around for a lot longer think.

There u go.

 

[Mst]

Not within the near future. Back then when eSports was nothing everyone within the Starcraft, Warcraft, Painkiller, UT, Quake, CS Community wanted to make the entire Competitive Gaming aspect of video games as huge as possible where later "eSports" deveolped through and eSports just got a bit bigger every year since them to that point where with Riot and Valve to Companys used the opportunity and pushed there game as a "eSports" (Competitive Game) which helped any eSports game to gather more exposure.

When i look at comments at the most FGC Sites it seems that only 10% of the ppl are interested to get Fighting Games on this level. Another problem i see is that it feels to me that most Fighting Games are being developed with the mindset that they will only receive support for around 1 year which dosent work these days where any other Game - LoL, Dota2, SC2, HS, Smite, CSGO whatever gets patched for a huge period of time. SF4 is properly the game with the longest support through out the last years but even there Capcom missed alot of opportunities to add features for the players (Ingame Framedata, Hitbox, General Improvements to the Training mod, a solid Tutorial....)

Another Point is Online fore sure one of the biggest strength Video Games have in general is that you can just go online and play even when you have no one who lives near you you plays the game you want to play. Which dosent really works that well for alot of Fighting Games because the Netcode they use is so bad.

Basically every huge "eSports" Game developed there Community through online play which lead to big Tournamantes offline and online.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

They just don't last anymore like they did back in the days of arcades. But then again shit like MMORPG's, MOBA's, and FPS genres weren't even around.

That's because gamers got spoiled and companies got greedy that we are now used to seeing a sequel to a game every year and the quality is nearly never improved from the last game.

you realize that ultra is like the 4th iteration of the game, most fighting games don't get that treatment.
even ultra looks like shit compared to other games view count, look at hearthstone has always people 5k+ viewers watching ranked play.

Part of the reason is that Hearthstone is new and has the Blizzard people guaranteed to be watching it already.





To add to OP, it also doesn't help that the FGC probably is more on the mature side. Unlike FPSes, and MOBAs which are littered with annoying 13 year olds. I kind of like it that way.

 

[FOREVER PERSEUS]

Hard to say some fighting games are hype and fun. But the way are community is I doubt it.
When new people come to the seen we need to be willing to help them understand fighting games the better they understand the more likely we get people to stay. Yes it takes a lot of skill. But that's any game you play. Some people are natural at call of duty and have a good k but you can't just have a good k to play on a high lvl.

They have people that are willing to scrim everyday and lvlup as a community even if there not on the same team. Ours is to up tight. Not a lot of us get along. Or every one thinks there better then everyone else. We have to come tog there first and appreciate ourselves first before anyone else does. Then we will get the hype and people we need for are coumminty

 

[TarkatanDentist]

Chances are, the closest thing that will ever exist to a mainstream fighting game is Super Smash Bros.

Does Smash Bros count as mainstream?

 

[RelentlessOhio]

It's more mainstream than any other fighter. But mainstream in the sense of a million viewers and $500,000 prize pots? Doubt it will ever happen.

 

[trustinme]

Severe amounts of bell cheese need to be eaten and enjoyed first.

 

[Vagrant]

There are a hundred reasons why they deserve the spotlight.
And a hundred reasons they don't.

They just have to raise the right eyebrows at the right time and they'll blow up.
Perfectly plausible that this happens in a week, or never happens.

 

[deathblooms2k4]

A number of things needs to happen first.

-Developers need to support and market the competitive scene (see starcraft, LoL, DoTA2)
-Games need to be easily accessible to casuals (Killer Instinct is a good example of a fighting game that's going in the right direction)
-Sponsors need to see that profit can be made off of their investments in the scene. This means that our games need more streaming personalities with consistently high viewership numbers
-Team based multiplayer needs to be added (think tag mode), casuals like playing games with their friends cooperatively and getting people to actually play the games is the first step in growing the community and making it a successful esport. SC2, LoL, Dota2, CS are all games that can be played cooperatively with friends at a casual level
-Tournaments need to be more consistent. Evo is fantastic and is probably the biggest boost to the scene every year, not only is the money invested in it worthwhile but the fact that everyone knows it's going to happen annually at around the same time every year also drastically helps.


A lot of this stuff is already starting to happen and as such it makes me optimistic that FG's will eventually become successful esports, but a lot is still lacking and until then they'll remain a niche hobby.

 

[Jeffreys]

No simply it cannot.

There are simple factors as to why this is:

1. Fighting Games are not being developed over the long haul, if you look at all the FG developers they only care about the game they develop for a maximum of a year.

2. The Community itself is the problem, the community is allergic to balance and changes. Take Starcraft 2 for example, Blizzard constantly changes the game in order for the best balance to be achieved. Even now when Starcraft 2 is at its lowest point (which is due to extraneous factors such as WCS) it still blows all FGC's out of the water

DOTA 2 which a few weeks ago had an $11 million dollar prize pool for the International is headed by an individual hell bent on ensuring balance, if Icefrog (The developer) sees a hero that is overused because of being overpowered, you can be damn sure that hero is going to get nerfed. If Icefrog sees a hero that is underused he will keep buffing that hero insanely.

3. Balance changes and constant updates serve to ensure that the meta game is not stagnant, that new characters will be shown and new tactics. This ensures that more people outside the competitive community will become interested in the competitive scene.

4. it is disingenuous to think that fighting games is harder than other games, all current esports games at the highest levels require extreme dedication. The difference is- esports games are constantly being balanced and updated by the developer.

Until a FG developer has the mentality that they are in this for the long haul, and that they will constantly update AND balance the game, then and only then will FG become more than some hobby and possibly an e-sport

Until then FG will remain a hobby, but not one that you can bank your future on.

 

[THTB]

I miss this kind of Tekken

On topic i think it's a delicate situation , if we want to be mainstream then the new FGs have to slowly introduce and explain the mechanics to new players in without frontloading the massive amount of info you need to play at a good level , then you can have a big pool of players actually searching for streams / gameplay / offline tournaments to get to the Esports / mainstream numbers.

Omg...why can't we have backdashes like that anymore...?

 

[VenomX-90]

I've been wondering this as well, fighting games have been competitive since 1987 the first Street Fighter, anyways that is their purpose. What I dont understand is why games like Dota, COD, WoW etc. get more views despite not being a competive game per say. For example anyone can sit on their ass all day camp, snipe, shoot, blow shit up etc. if they took the time which really doesnt take too much time to learn. Same thing with Dota, never played it (not my cup of tea) googled it only b/c I keep hearing and seeinf the words Dota on the homepage on FB then when I looked it up I want really interesting, anyways. Sports like MMA, Boxing, Wrestling, etc those elements are emulated into fighting games and I dont unerstand why it doesnt go mainstream like the games I've mentioned.

 

[Crathen]

On the subject: