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Question We need a verdict on this matchup

Crathen

Crathen

Death is my business
So , anyone who has watched EVO knows the stakes were high when Theo faced MIT and in a surprising fashion MIT ended up taking it with Deathstroke 2-0.Here's the video:


My question is: Did this happen because the matchup is in Deathstroke favour or even?Or was it just Theo playing sloppy?Does Aquaman beat Deathstroke and this was a fluke?

The Deathstroke community also debated this MU a while back without printing a definitive number here http://testyourmight.com/threads/deathstroke-matchup-breakdowns-a-community-effort-week-1-aquaman.39231/page-2

What's everyone opinion about this?

Discuss
 
Scoot Magee

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
It could be that nobody plays deathstroke and theo doesn't know the match. It could be that Deathstroke does do well against Aquaman. It could be that Mit just outplayed Theo...

I don't think a 2 game tournament match, Evo or not should decide a match up. Just grind out the match for a while first.
 
PunkMafia83

PunkMafia83

PSN: YaRnToNpUnKMAFIA
This is interesting. The first question I have is how familiar is Theo in the deathstroke match?

Reason I asked was I remember Theo mb b3ing when MIT was doing b1u2. That helped MIT out a bit.

Plus it doesn't matter what the matchup is. GUNSHOTS ARE STILL ANNOYING.
 
Crathen

Crathen

Death is my business
Scoot Magee said:
It could be that nobody plays deathstroke and theo doesn't know the match. It could be that Deathstroke does do well against Aquaman. It could be that Mit just outplayed Theo...

I don't think a 2 game tournament match, Evo or not should decide a match up. Just grind out the match for a while first.
Click to expand...
I'm trying to bring people to speak out their mind , not really set in stone forever a number , also it's all for fun hehe.

I can't say how much Deathstroke presence is in SoCal but i know there were quite a few ones , i know Aris / Legend / Chef played DS and Theo should have a basic understanding of him.

Also i can speak for myself and i've played this matchup quite a lot and broke it down to a science to the point i feel i know what i'm talking about and have an opinion about it.Maybe @Slips can give some insight too.
 
KC H0oKsw0rds

KC H0oKsw0rds

iK A B A L
Can someone explain the zoning war in this MU? I wonder because it looks like Theo was a lot more hesitant to FTD. He wasn't counter zoning low GS with FTD or zoning at all for that matter. It seemed like he was just letting MIT play the run away game and all Theo would do is dash up dash up b1. Do low GS punish FTD?
 
Slips

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
I've always said this mu is at least 5-5. I've even gone so far to say it's in DS favor, but that was me probably over-exaggerating the fact about how well I think DS fights Aquaman.

I know @GGA Dizzy doesn't play anymore, but when we did, we grinded this mu quite a bit. He was doing trident rush chip cheapness before anyone. He played the character well. There was nothing he or I could find that really seemed to sway the mu in either of our favor's. I controlled the pace but he did more damage.

I don't know how many times I've said this. Nobody besides the footsie god tools of Doomsday shoulder and Frost slide truly out-footsie DS. Low guns, f3, d2, dash ups and jump 3/1 are some very stout footsie tools and I'll take them against anyone.
 
protools27

protools27

Rebel without a scene
I have always felt that it was a 5-5. I think the problem theo had was that DS is one of the few characters in the game that makes AM play out of his comfort zone. DS can punish FTD with standing gunshots, so AM can't just throw out FTD recklessly.
KC H0oKsw0rds said:
Can someone explain the zoning war in this MU? I wonder because it looks like Theo was a lot more hesitant to FTD. He wasn't counter zoning low GS with FTD or zoning at all for that matter. It seemed like he was just letting MIT play the run away game and all Theo would do is dash up dash up b1. Do low GS punish FTD?
Click to expand...
Because of this, AM actually has to do a fair amount of chasing to catch DS, which is not how AM has to fight most of his match ups. If you watch how theo plays, we likes to play very patient, and captialize off his opponents mistakes, and this works a large majority of the time, but with DS, aquaman is the one that needs to take risks to get in. Add in F3 on knockdown for DS that makes AM's trait useless, and I would say its a pretty even match up. And DS can be very annoying to chase, leading into lots of mistakes on the part of the opponent.
 
Big Pampering

Big Pampering

Master
Slips said:
I've always said this mu is at least 5-5. I've even gone so far to say it's in DS favor, but that was me probably over-exaggerating the fact about how well I think DS fights Aquaman.

I know @GGA Dizzy doesn't play anymore, but when we did, we grinded this mu quite a bit. He was doing trident rush chip cheapness before anyone. He played the character well. There was nothing he or I could find that really seemed to sway the mu in either of our favor's. I controlled the pace but he did more damage.

I don't know how many times I've said this. Nobody besides the footsie god tools of Doomsday shoulder and Frost slide truly out-footsie DS. Low guns, f3, d2, dash ups and jump 3/1 are some very stout footsie tools and I'll take them against anyone.
Click to expand...
people often say they can react to f3 and punish it with aquamans d2, but that is only the case if they are just sitting there waiting for it. Even then they could be eating a mb f3 if the deathstroke player knows how to utillise the full potential of f3.
 
Eric The Scruffy

Eric The Scruffy

Warrior
KC H0oKsw0rds said:
Can someone explain the zoning war in this MU? I wonder because it looks like Theo was a lot more hesitant to FTD. He wasn't counter zoning low GS with FTD or zoning at all for that matter. It seemed like he was just letting MIT play the run away game and all Theo would do is dash up dash up b1. Do low GS punish FTD?
Click to expand...
I don't think lowshots punish FTD full screen, but a reversal quick shot does. I believe Aquaman can block midscreen though...someone correct me if I'm wrong. Full screen Aquaman also cannot reversal from the deep, but if he's close enough he can. Spacing is really important in this fight.
Edit: actually now that I'm rereading it I'm pretty sure I'm 100% wrong about him being able to block it midscreen cause that actually wouldn't make any freaking sense would it?
 
Peckapowa

Peckapowa

Champion
is aquaman and zod 4-6 because pig beat djt??? no. in fact i don't think djt had a ton of exp vs zod because he wasn't using trident enough and pig knows that matchup (albeit seemed to mkae a huge use of the ground balls, i think his instants were a bit off).

ds's zoning isn't good enough to warrant a 6-4, deathstroke needs a good stage otherwise footsies and mixups and damage
 
Big Pampering

Big Pampering

Master
DarthArma said:
LOL, I knew this thread was coming.

I think MIT just played better than theo, and forced aquaman to come to him. If you look at the 2nd match, MIT had 2 GREAT reads on theo doing scope...WHICH many characters can do and punish with jump 3.
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I think thats a big part of the matchup. Deathstroke has good mixups on knockdown against aquaman and aquaman is at his weakest when he is knocked down. Deathstroke wins the fullscreen game so aquaman will have to chase him in this matchup.
 
Crathen

Crathen

Death is my business
I mean that's the thing , even if Theo didn't wakeup scoop he would have been forced to block the j3 ( or even a f3 ) and if he doesn't pushblock ( or preemptive trait ) he has to guess on a safe 50/50.Not all characters can condition ( a good ) Aquaman that way , why would you ever wakeup with something when their mixup game is average at best ( take Batman or Raven as an example ). Pushblocking costs meter and Aqua doesn't build as much meter because he can't FTD without getting punished and has to chase DS and try to open him up ( with what b2/b1 into TR? ).

Personally i think the matchup was always even while still being easier to play as Deathstroke than Aquaman and that shows / matters more in a ft2.
 
protools27

protools27

Rebel without a scene
Rickyraws said:
I think this is the only community that thinks MU numbers aren't a guage; they're a guarantee. He lost a match in a tournament. Why has the MU changed because of this?
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If you read the op, it clearly states that the poster wasn't sure of the matchup number in the first place. Nothing has changed, they are discussing the match up.
 
4x4lo8o

4x4lo8o

Warrior
It was just MIT getting tired of being a bill and going into beast mode. It said less about the match up and Theo's skill than it did about how ridiculously good MIT was playing during that set
 
StevoSuprem0

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
I like @Slips analysis alot.
I'll say that I think both of these guys are amazing players, but I think MIT simply played the matchup a bit better than Theo. You saw Theo fail to punish several situations (such as blocked gunshots, which are a bit of a mindgame as to whether or not he's going to MB them, but you should be forcing him to burn that meter and train him to do so, especially since MB gunshots are ALSO punishable). I'm no expert on the matchup, but I think it plays at least pretty close to even (maybe 4-6 AM favor at the worst), and MIT simply played it better that day. Numbers < knowledge/tech/nerves.
Let's stop beating around the bush and cut to the root- @EMPEROR_THEO and @MITDJT, whaddya think? What are your thoughts on the MU and your performances in it?
 
HellblazerHawkman

HellblazerHawkman

Confused Thanagarian
This is Hawkgirl syndrome. Nobody plays Deathstroke, so nobody bothers learning the MU. Only this time, nobody is bitching about Deathstroke being a stupid\broken character
 
YOMI MITYEAP

YOMI MITYEAP

Master
StevoSuprem0 said:
I like @Slips analysis alot.
I'll say that I think both of these guys are amazing players, but I think MIT simply played the matchup a bit better than Theo. You saw Theo fail to punish several situations (such as blocked gunshots, which are a bit of a mindgame as to whether or not he's going to MB them, but you should be forcing him to burn that meter and train him to do so, especially since MB gunshots are ALSO punishable). I'm no expert on the matchup, but I think it plays at least pretty close to even (maybe 4-6 AM favor at the worst), and MIT simply played it better that day. Numbers < knowledge/tech/nerves.
Let's stop beating around the bush and cut to the root- @EMPEROR_THEO and @MITDJT, whaddya think? What are your thoughts on the MU and your performances in it?
Click to expand...
I'd say I played it fairly well and capitalized off some key things such as blowing up wakeups and etc. Overall i'd say the matchup at worst is 6 4 AM, but i'll leave it at a 5 5 because realistically speaking, this matchup is a complete lifelead/ lame affair. The matches between me and theo could've easily been timeouts cuz guns punish FTD but FTD can punish guns as well. However, DS can rush AM down and AM can apply trident rush pressure on DS.
 
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