Match-up Discussion My lex mu chart

[Fromundaman]

I would definitely say the Joker MU is even. The only thing that would best Joker in this MU is trait. Outside of parrying, Joker can't do shit about his trait. But if lex has meter to blow on health advantage the zone game can definitely be real on either side as well as the offense. Definitely a momentum based fight. 5-5. @Fromundaman @oNe87_Kentucky @EMP Dark

Honestly it depends on where trait is activated. I only feel like it becomes a problem when activated after 21 or at the end of a combo. Other than that gunshot blows up backdash cancels, trait activations, approaches, etc. from half screen or more. It makes it really hard for him to set up anything.
That said once trait is up we do have to be a lot more careful. I just try to stay near teeth or careful use of 21, D2>flower or B1>flower to blow up trait and still get the hits (I say careful because in the case of flower enders, they can block the 1st hit then armor through the flower).

I don't really fear Lex's zoning much as Joker. The only option he has to potentially slow gunshot trades is MB Missiles, and those can be forward jumped assuming you didn't pull out gun, you can trade it and if you did pull gun, forward dash canceling makes you take very little damage from it, though it does give him a chance to set something up.
Basically yes, Lex can set one thing up (Has to choose between armor or probe) after a MB missile on hit, but it cost him a bar, and we can keep trading at that range with gunshot until we inevitably get the advantage back while also building bar instead of losing it.


I can agree with even. I personally think there is a *slight* advantage for Joker here, if only because Lex has more trouble approaching Joker than the other way around, but like you guys said, it is so momentum based that I could see it being even.

 

[Vengeance135]

Honestly it depends on where trait is activated. I only feel like It becomes a problem when activated after 21 or at the end of a combo. Other than that gunshot blows up backdash cancels, trait activations, approaches, etc. from half screen or more. It makes it really hard for him to set up anything.
That said once trait is up we do have to be a lot more careful. I just try to stay near teeth or careful use of 21, D2>flower or B1>flower to blow up trait and still get the hits (I say careful because in the case of flower enders, they can block the 1st hit then armor through the flower).

I don't really fear Lex's zoning much as Joker. The only option he has to potentially slow gunshot trades is MB Missiles, and those can be forward jumped assuming you didn't pull out gun, you can trade it and if you did pull gun, forward dash canceling makes you take very little damage from it, though it does give him a chance to set something up.
Basically yes, Lex can set one thing up (Has to choose between armor or probe) after a MB missile on hit, but it cost him a bar, and we can keep trading at that range with gunshot until we inevitably get the advantage back while also building bar instead of losing it.


I can agree with even. I personally think there is a *slight* advantage for Joker here, if only because Lex has more trouble approaching Joker than the other way around, but like you guys said, it is so momentum based that I could see it being even.

I agree with what you're saying for sure. Ive never seen a Lex use trait outside of a combo ender or setup though or armoring up to zone with life lead. I stay strong at even because if hes armored and Joker is knocked down its his game. If Joker knocks him down its a favorable game to Joker also. Its a fun MU to play because of what it takes to win it.

 

[Fromundaman]

I agree with what you're saying for sure. Ive never seen a Lex use trait outside of a combo ender or setup though or armoring up to zone with life lead. I stay strong at even because if hes armored and Joker is knocked down its his game. If Joker knocks him down its a favorable game to Joker also. Its a fun MU to play because of what it takes to win it.

Well, I'm also a Lex player and where I trait is very much MU dependent. In some MUs you can trait up full screen then use backdash cancels to go through projectiles (Easiest one to do this to is Superman), but I was pretty much saying that doesn't work against Joker.

 

[Vengeance135]

Well, I'm also a Lex player and where I trait is very much MU dependent. In some MUs you can trait up full screen then use backdash cancels to go through projectiles (Easiest one to do this to is Superman), but I was pretty much saying that doesn't work against Joker.

I see what your saying for sure

 

[Qwark28]

I definitely agree. Though the lex players I play generally get a setup and cancel for trait in between strings to assure Joker can't wake upmaking him respect whats to come next. Lex- Joker MU even. Whoever gets the first hit will MOST likely win. All momentum. Does anyone disagree?

Joker has less overwhelming and carefree rushdown than traited Lex, the first hit advantage is definitely his.

 

[Rickyraws]

imo -

Harley - the more I play this and think about it the more I think it's even
Grundy - I definitely think Lex wins but I don't think it can be that bad. I'd leave it at 6-4 since I've never gotten to play Tyrant
Cyborg - a smart Cyborg player will give you trouble. Obviously random Cyborgs will be easy to get in on, but at a high level I think it's even at best or Cyborg wins
Catwoman - if you're equally as patient I don't see how Lex doesn't win
Deathstroke - trait is not useless in the mu. lex has ways of dealing with him from everywhere to some extent. definitely 4-6 for me.
Aquaman - I can argue for like forever that Lex wins this mu 6-4. Lex doesn't care about footsies. He gets a lot of free trait opportunities and can take advantage of Aquaman's lack of mobility really well
Raven - I'm more leaning to advantage Raven than 5-5
Frost - Everyone thinks a 2-hitting projectile is a big deal but I don't think so. I have it even.
Shazam - it could be Lex adv, but I have it even mostly because of teleport
Batgirl - i still don't see how batgirl wins this mu.
BA - it could be even, more leaning to Lex adv
Bane - Lex advantage imo. If Bane isn't right in your face he needs to go to lvl 3 early, which opens him up more on debuff since Lex can damage him from pretty much anywhere

everything else I agree with

What Frosts do you play? Not doubting your numbers, but I'm curious; anyone who says daggers is the reason this is a bad MU is suspect.

 

[Tony at Home]

What Frosts do you play? Not doubting your numbers, but I'm curious; anyone who says daggers is the reason this is a bad MU is suspect.

I think he means other Lex players who feel like its a bad MU.... Like me...

 

[Vengeance135]

Joker has less overwhelming and carefree rushdown than traited Lex, the first hit advantage is definitely his.

I was careful when I said favorable because Joker still has to watch for wakeups but if read right can be a real blowup. Strictly my opinion though

 

[DreadKnight1]

I would definitely say the Joker MU is even. The only thing that would best Joker in this MU is trait. Outside of parrying, Joker can't do shit about his trait. But if lex has meter to blow on health advantage the zone game can definitely be real on either side as well as the offense. Definitely a momentum based fight. 5-5. @Fromundaman @oNe87_Kentucky @EMP Dark

I have played you, dark and Kentucky a few times. I as a player am horrible at dealing with zoning and I reckon that a patient and on point lex could get around jokers pistol much easier. I have gone close to even with Kentucky, I have yet to play you in a long set now that I'm feeling better and I played dark when I was sick but that+Heavy lag made me free af.

 

[DreadKnight1]

And honestly I've been told I kinda downplay lex by saying he loses 6-4 to am, bg, frost and Harley so I decided to attempt to up play him a bit in this mu chart. When I said 6-4 It could be more 5.5-4.5 or even for example.

 

[FOREVER EL1TE]

I believe NW 6-4' lex Luther

 

[Vengeance135]

I have played you, dark and Kentucky a few times. I as a player am horrible at dealing with zoning and I reckon that a patient and on point lex could get around jokers pistol much easier. I have gone close to even with Kentucky, I have yet to play you in a long set now that I'm feeling better and I played dark when I was sick but that+Heavy lag made me free af.

I will definitely run that long set with you whenever

 

[DreadKnight1]

I believe NW 6-4' lex Luther

I thought that too but you can still give nightwing problems, like how flip kick doesn't cross up in a few of his setups so blocking is easier, flying Grayson is next to useless when you have trait, you can interrupt nightwing staff pressure with shield as well. Lex just has to get in with shield and keep rushing nightwing down. He can also zone for a short period of time once he has momentum and meter.

 

[FOREVER EL1TE]

I thought that too but you can still give nightwing problems, like how flip kick doesn't cross up in a few of his setups so blocking is easier, flying Grayson is next to useless when you have trait, you can interrupt nightwing staff pressure with shield as well. Lex just has to get in with shield and keep rushing nightwing down. He can also zone for a short period of time once he has momentum and meter.

Im going to reply to this in a bit. About the exp I had so far

 

[Fromundaman]

I have played you, dark and Kentucky a few times. I as a player am horrible at dealing with zoning and I reckon that a patient and on point lex could get around jokers pistol much easier. I have gone close to even with Kentucky, I have yet to play you in a long set now that I'm feeling better and I played dark when I was sick but that+Heavy lag made me free af.

As someone who plays both characters, I want to say Lex is WAAAAAY better online than Joker.

 

[FOREVER EL1TE]

@DreadKnight1 .
Flying Grayson is good as it can beat his trait armor I believe.
You can interrupt NW staff spin. But I've only seen my MB staff spin get interrupted. We can zone/counter zone you alot. And I can use the strings that dont cross up to my advantage

 

[DreadKnight1]

It

@DreadKnight1 .
Flying Grayson is good as it can beat his trait armor I believe.
You can interrupt NW staff spin. But I've only seen my MB staff spin get interrupted. We can zone/counter zone you alot. And I can use the strings that dont cross up to my advantage

Flying Grayson can catch lex traiting but I'm saying once lex has trait it's useless, Lexs d2 can easily catch a FG. Yes lex can interrupt mb spaff spin with ease by just doing d1 vacuum or possible even f2 vacuum-need to check the timing on that. Zoning is weird in this mu. Whoever throws out they're +frame zoning first wins the zoning war at each given time but lexs j3 is very good at catching nightwing zoning, also a well timed corps charge in the air can catch you occasionally. Lex has some good shit in this mu too

 

[Chongo]

NW is 5-5. Possibly 6-4 lex

 

[rev0lver]

@DreadKnight1 .
Flying Grayson is good as it can beat his trait armor I believe.
You can interrupt NW staff spin. But I've only seen my MB staff spin get interrupted. We can zone/counter zone you alot. And I can use the strings that dont cross up to my advantage

Flying Grayson only works to check armor if you backdash cancel trait. If I forward dash I can full punish you. And what dreadknight said about staff spin

It

Flying Grayson can catch lex traiting but I'm saying once lex has trait it's useless, Lexs d2 can easily catch a FG. Yes lex can interrupt mb spaff spin with ease by just doing d1 vacuum or possible even f2 vacuum-need to check the timing on that. Zoning is weird in this mu. Whoever throws out they're +frame zoning first wins the zoning war at each given time but lexs j3 is very good at catching nightwing zoning, also a well timed corps charge in the air can catch you occasionally. Lex has some good shit in this mu too

You can use 22~vacuum to interrupt staff spin pretty consistently, it's hard to do online though. With the zoning, it depends what stance he's in. In staff, I use a lot of forward jumps from like 3/4 screen which lets you corp charge staff pound attempts. Of course this can open you up, but it makes NW more hesitant to zone with it. In escrima, you can always just set up mb probes (even if you trade with ground sparks) which lets Lex set up his trait or zoning

 

[FOREVER EL1TE]

Flying Grayson only works to check armor if you backdash cancel trait. If I forward dash I can full punish you. And what dreadknight said about staff spin



You can use 22~vacuum to interrupt staff spin pretty consistently, it's hard to do online though. With the zoning, it depends what stance he's in. In staff, I use a lot of forward jumps from like 3/4 screen which lets you corp charge staff pound attempts. Of course this can open you up, but it makes NW more hesitant to zone with it. In escrima, you can always just set up mb probes (even if you trade with ground sparks) which lets Lex set up his trait or zoning

In staff if you jump from full screen I can FG you. Or am I thinking of Corp charge in the air?
If you have XBL we can play. Name is FOREVER EL1TE

 

[FOREVER EL1TE]

NW is 5-5. Possibly 6-4 lex

No no

 

[rev0lver]

In staff if you jump from full screen I can FG you. Or am I thinking of Corp charge in the air?
If you have XBL we can play. Name is FOREVER EL1TE

Yeah that's what I'm saying, if I jump forward and see you staff pound, I can corp charge you in the air. If you're able to FG me that means you're not zoning me, which allows me to set stuff up. I have to take a risk to do it but it evens out the zoning in staff.

 

[FOREVER EL1TE]

@rev0lver
you can AA with flying grayson if your zoning

 

[rev0lver]

@rev0lver
you can AA with flying grayson if your zoning

No, I'm saying if I forward jump your staff pound I can corp charge you before you recover

 

[FOREVER EL1TE]

No, I'm saying if I forward jump your staff pound I can corp charge you before you recover

Oooooooooooooohhhh