Match-up Discussion Pre-Evo 2014 Aquaman MU Chart

[@MylesWright_]

Good Aquaman players do not lose to Killer Frost and she does not win the match-up

 

[THTB]

So as far as Green Lantern, GL doesn't have a lot of good options to open AM up. Everyone says "Just shoot air Oa's rocket", and while that does help keep the matchup closer, if the AM is blocking, shielding, or backdashing your rockets you will do far less damage in chip or the occasional hit than he will do by blowing up your jump with a well-timed FTD or dash-up d2.

In footsies, knowing that GL only has his low for a ranged attack, it's very easy for AM to block and/or blow GL up as he attempts to get in. Knowing that GL's F3 only hits from close range, it's very easy for AM to space you out with MB rush to a distance where dash is not an option, jump-in is blown up, and you only have the low to block. B3, D2 etc. give AM excellent space control, plus trait gets him out of the first hit of b1x. If you try to get cute AM can break or match armor with ease. And the MB rush also gives him easy chip.

If you watch Denzell vs. Theo, it's a perfect summation of why GL doesn't win that match. Or Orochi vs. Tom, which was closer but still saw Orochi lose. No GL is consistently winning against any top Aquaman player that knows the ins of the matchup.

Air oa rockets can do more than just work in the zoning. If you play it smart, you can use them to deter AA attempts, which can give you room to actually get jump-ins. No it's not going to be doing a lot of damage, but it's going to make him hesitate after a while if he keeps getting hit by it, and it helps build you meter. Also, you do have ground rocket, which at times can land as Aquaman is doing MB FTD and cause him to just burn the bar with no extra hit. Dashing under oa rocket is a commitment, that can backfire as well. Also, trait air oa makes GL fall too fast to dash under, and can also be used in the jump-in game even better than normal air oa, since you're getting more advantage out of the deal to do things.

Thing is, you can't be afraid to air oa. Regardless of whether or not the damage matches up, that's not what you're seeking. You're seeking to make the Aquaman do things to contend with it.

 

[Captain Oxygen]

I believe Lobo beats Aqua 6-4.

Lobo doesn't have too much trouble establishing an offense against Aqua, Lobo wins in the midrange/footsie range, when I say "midrange" I mean outside of Aqua's B12 range. Lobo can outfootsie aqua with Standing 3, Hook Charge,Trait PumpShot and Low Hook to prevent him from dashing,jumping,backdashing,poking. Once you get a knockdown from Low Hook,Hook Charge, Standing 3 -> Hook Charge/Low Hook; Lobo can easily mixup Aqua because his wakeup is trash.

Aquaman can't FTD when Lobo has trait unless he wants to eat 28%. Aqua defensively destroys characters by walking back with a life-lead, Lobo can do the same to Aqua by camping the mid range.

Aqua's trait isn't very helpful because Lobo can play his midrange game flawlessly against him, using Command Throw, and getting single hits from Hook Charge, Low Hook and Pumpshot.

One of the biggest things about this MU is that Aquaman's most reliable damage source, Trident Rush, leaves him at a free mixup from Lobo; You can either eat a Command Throw into 40%+, a Hook Charge which gives Lobo a Knockdown on Aqua, or Low Hook which gives the same as Hook Charge.

I judge Lobo matchups based on 3 ranges, Close, Far, and Midrange.
-Trait Shots neutralize Aqua's far range game.
-Lobo beats Aqua heavily in the mid range game.
-Aqua can't out-damage/mixup lobo up close.

I'm open for opinions, but as of now I truly believe this is a bad MU for waterboy.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Air oa rockets can do more than just work in the zoning. If you play it smart, you can use them to deter AA attempts, which can give you room to actually get jump-ins. No it's not going to be doing a lot of damage, but it's going to make him hesitate after a while if he keeps getting hit by it, and it helps build you meter. Also, you do have ground rocket, which at times can land as Aquaman is doing MB FTD and cause him to just burn the bar with no extra hit. Dashing under oa rocket is a commitment, that can backfire as well. Also, trait air oa makes GL fall too fast to dash under, and can also be used in the jump-in game even better than normal air oa, since you're getting more advantage out of the deal to do things.

Thing is, you can't be afraid to air oa. Regardless of whether or not the damage matches up, that's not what you're seeking. You're seeking to make the Aquaman do things to contend with it.

Which sounds nice in theory -- except that you will never beat an AM like Theo or Tom that knows the MU with this. Ground rocket doesn't get you any more than it gets him. And if dashing to blow up an air Oa 'backfires' he's will lose a little bit of life; whereas if he reads or reacts to a jump correctly with AA (which sometimes happens before your rocket even comes out, or the dash makes it miss), you're losing 30-40% into a setup. Risk/reward is never in GL's favor in this matchup, and I'd like to see any GL that's talking tough test how well their theory fighting works against the AMs that know the MU well.

It's not that you're afraid to use air rockets; it's that regardless of whether you do or don't, it's not going to tip the matchup in Green Lantern's favor.

 

[Decay]

Am I the only one who finds the match up against lobo more like a 5.5:4.5 in lobo's favor? It's very even either way but I dunno...

 

[Wowbiggulps]

Am I the only one who finds the match up against lobo more like a 5.5:4.5 in lobo's favor? It's very even either way but I dunno...

Pretty sure captain oxygen feels similarly

 

[THTB]

Which sounds nice in theory -- except that you will never beat an AM like Theo or Tom that knows the MU with this. Ground rocket doesn't get you any more than it gets him. And if dashing to blow up an air Oa 'backfires' he's will lose a little bit of life; whereas if he reads or reacts to a jump correctly with AA (which sometimes happens before your rocket even comes out, or the dash makes it miss), you're losing 30-40% into a setup. Risk/reward is never in GL's favor in this matchup, and I'd like to see any GL that's talking tough test how well their theory fighting works against the AMs that know the MU well.

It's not that you're afraid to use air rockets; it's that regardless of whether you do or don't, it's not going to tip the matchup in Green Lantern's favor.

Dashing to blow up air oa can lead to you running into b1, stray ground oa, etc. It's not just air oa he can run into. That's why I said the commitment thing is an issue. Because the things he can run into leads to 30-40+%.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Dashing to blow up air oa can lead to you running into b1, stray ground oa, etc. It's not just air oa he can run into. That's why I said the commitment thing is an issue. Because the things he can run into leads to 30-40+%.

If you're scouting a jump and the GL doesn't jump, why would you run into a b1? A good AM isn't going to just run in with you standing there.

Supposing he had a mental lapse, did this and realized, he'd just trait up immediately and you'd get b1 followed by a block. But you'd have to be doing it on reaction; because if you are preemptively throwing out b1, that will get whiff punished for large amounts of damage in this MU more often than not.

Again, I would like to see you show in practice that this works against good AMs that know that matchup. There have been plenty of GL's theorycrafting, but when it comes time to play, no gimmick, mind game or supposed tactical advantage is translating into actual wins. Denzell and Orochi both pulled out every trick in the book and the MU still didn't look any different.

I think people are conflating things that work against random AM's or AM's that aren't intently familiar with the MU with things that will work against guys that are playing it correctly.

 

[Name v.5.0]

So as far as Green Lantern, GL doesn't have a lot of good options to open AM up. Everyone says "Just shoot air Oa's rocket", and while that does help keep the matchup closer, if the AM is blocking, shielding, or backdashing your rockets you will do far less damage in chip or the occasional hit than he will do by blowing up your jump with a well-timed FTD or dash-up d2.

In footsies, knowing that GL only has his low for a ranged attack, it's very easy for AM to block and/or blow GL up as he attempts to get in. Knowing that GL's F3 only hits from close range, it's very easy for AM to space you out with MB rush to a distance where dash is not an option, jump-in is blown up, and you only have the low to block. B3, D2 etc. give AM excellent space control, plus trait gets him out of the first hit of b1x. If you try to get cute AM can break or match armor with ease. And the MB rush also gives him easy chip.

If you watch Denzell vs. Theo, it's a perfect summation of why GL doesn't win that match. Or Orochi vs. Tom, which was closer but still saw Orochi lose. No GL is consistently winning against any top Aquaman player that knows the ins of the matchup.

Yeah, I'm not so much worried about that matchup. A lot of times it can go either way. Life lead is a big deal in that matchup and I just feel like GL tends to always have that life lead. It could very well be 5-5, but I just feel like GL has a bit of an advantage.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Am I the only one who finds the match up against lobo more like a 5.5:4.5 in lobo's favor? It's very even either way but I dunno...

Can u add @WoundCowboy xbl @Tom Brady xbl @EMPEROR_THEO on ps3 and play him and record some games vs his aqua ?

 

[Name v.5.0]

I believe Lobo beats Aqua 6-4.

Lobo doesn't have too much trouble establishing an offense against Aqua, Lobo wins in the midrange/footsie range, when I say "midrange" I mean outside of Aqua's B12 range. Lobo can outfootsie aqua with Standing 3, Hook Charge,Trait PumpShot and Low Hook to prevent him from dashing,jumping,backdashing,poking. Once you get a knockdown from Low Hook,Hook Charge, Standing 3 -> Hook Charge/Low Hook; Lobo can easily mixup Aqua because his wakeup is trash.

Aquaman can't FTD when Lobo has trait unless he wants to eat 28%. Aqua defensively destroys characters by walking back with a life-lead, Lobo can do the same to Aqua by camping the mid range.

Aqua's trait isn't very helpful because Lobo can play his midrange game flawlessly against him, using Command Throw, and getting single hits from Hook Charge, Low Hook and Pumpshot.

One of the biggest things about this MU is that Aquaman's most reliable damage source, Trident Rush, leaves him at a free mixup from Lobo; You can either eat a Command Throw into 40%+, a Hook Charge which gives Lobo a Knockdown on Aqua, or Low Hook which gives the same as Hook Charge.

I judge Lobo matchups based on 3 ranges, Close, Far, and Midrange.
-Trait Shots neutralize Aqua's far range game.
-Lobo beats Aqua heavily in the mid range game.
-Aqua can't out-damage/mixup lobo up close.

I'm open for opinions, but as of now I truly believe this is a bad MU for waterboy.

I've never played an awesom Lobo, but youre logic has me interested.

 

[Syknis]

Can u add @WoundCowboy xbl @Tom Brady xbl @EMPEROR_THEO on ps3 and play him and record some games vs his aqua ?

Who's the best lobo on xbl?

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

Can u add @WoundCowboy xbl @Tom Brady xbl @EMPEROR_THEO on ps3 and play him and record some games vs his aqua ?

haha my Aquaman is in hibernation.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Aren't stages too much of a factor for a solid match up chart in this game?

 

[Decay]

Can u add @WoundCowboy xbl @Tom Brady xbl @EMPEROR_THEO on ps3 and play him and record some games vs his aqua ?

Yeah that would be extremely awesome.

Pretty sure captain oxygen feels similarly

Yup, I replied before I read what oxygen wrote but at least we think similarly on the matchup. I think 6:4 might be too strong because of a few things like Aquamans down 2 can defeat all of lobos slow jump in cross ups and also Aquamans jumpback 3 (I think it's 3, the one with the trident pole sticking straight downward) is very anti lobo rush down.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

haha my Aquaman is in hibernation.

Nah u beat theo ZOD 10-0

Try it out

 

[Captain Oxygen]

Yeah that would be extremely awesome.

Yup, I replied before I read what oxygen wrote but at least we think similarly on the matchup. I think 6:4 might be too strong because of a few things like Aquamans down 2 can defeat all of lobos slow jump in cross ups and also Aquamans jumpback 3 (I think it's 3, the one with the trident pole sticking straight downward) is very anti lobo rush down.

That's another I forgot to mention is that Lobo doesn't really need to jump, you can just play patiently until you score a knockdown and them go ham. And if Aqua's just jump back all day you can stop that with trait shots.

 

[Decay]

Who's the best lobo on xbl?

That's hard to say. I mean there aren't many of us. I've been told I'm one of the best and I would like to think that but lolllll who knows? But I do main him since the day he dropped and I don't use anyone else
Feel free to see some of my matches on YouTube, I just started doing the recording stuffs.
I have a playlist there.
Injustice: Lobo vs. The World. Ranked session 3:

 

[Decay]

haha my Aquaman is in hibernation.

Your Hibernation aquaman is probably better than most full awake aquamen

 

[Akromaniac27]

I can see how it COULD be 5-5 against WW, but once hitting the field, it feels like a 6-4. She has absolutely no safe way of getting in unless burning meter in sword stance and all that for what? Just chip that doesn't even make up for the amount he dishes out, not to mention unless she has him pressed to the corner, she cannot follow up without getting beat out due to DAT range. Her pressure game and 50/50 in lasso stance get completely negated because he can just keep moving back and not worry about it due to trait. Her wakeup game is arguably worse than his because she only has 3 options, where only one is invincible, but full combo punished by everyone(as well as the other wake ups). Imo its just that damn trait that makes it so uphill

 

[Orochi]

Denzell and Orochi both pulled out every trick in the book and the MU still didn't look any different.

I wouldn't say pulled every trick in the book , I've looked back to these matches and broken them down to what we did wrong and we could've done right and there's def more that could've been done.

With that said I think this MU def depends on the lifelead, it's really hard to open up either character when you're playing a footsies game. It all depends on who plays better that day. GL being able to punish anything Aquaman does that's unsafe is really good for him though.

 

[Cabronium]

Let's not base matchup numbers by online sets.

 

[usedcarsalesmang]

Sorry, that was a bit of hyperbole. I'm sure I'll accidentally leave shit out but here we go.

Here's what I actually think: Nightwing in staff out reaches Aquaman. He's very safe, and has a lot of +frame attacks. In other words, he's tough to punish and Aquaman is forced to risk a backdash or lose a bar to push block. Aquaman might as well not even attempt to zone Staffwing. Staffwing's J1 stuffs Aquaman's D2. Trait isnt extremely usefull against him either.

Above all, with life lead Nightwing can turtle the shit out of Aquaman. Fuck, even if Aquaman has life lead he cant stay back, he's forced to go into the meat grinder to win.

So if Aquaman has trouble from a distance, and trouble up close, doesnt that equal bad matchup? There's a big guessing game against Nightwing and sometimes it's just the right reads that win the match, but all in all I think Nightwing vs Aquaman is a 4-6.

I've watched all the streams, and all the big tournaments and I'm still yet to see a Nightwing as good as the people I play on PSN. I understand that sounds ridiculous, but it's true.

Commence ridicule! :-P

Yeah I hate the NW match up. I'd rather fight MMH than NW. People just say play the life and meter game.
So just like you play vs all the other characters?!

 

[Name v.5.0]

Yeah I hate the NW match up. I'd rather fight MMH than NW. People just say play the life and meter game.
So just like you play vs all the other characters?!

Haha exactly.

I feel stupid complaining about the matchup because I play Aquaman and he has so many good matchups, but I wish people would be serious and realize it's not in Aquaman's favor.

 

[Jimmypotato]

I still think Arrow is 8-2 AMan, with the right stage it maybe goes to 7-3. but then if it goes the other way and it's the wrong stage it's 9-1 territory.

Blow me up if you want, it's that fuckin bad.