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Batgirl, honestly

ReD WolF

Lord of the Drip
The dude is telling people to use another character if their character doesn't have the tools to punish Batgirl.
^ That statement alone already tells you how much this guy knows about his character. You can't punish? Drop your character.

It's the probably the funniest list I've read on TYM. What's funny is that the guy isn't really a strong BG player thus why he's downplaying and made this thread. He doesn't fully understand what Batgirl can do at a pro level. If he wants to understand more, I invite him to play a very good Batgirl player and get bodied and let's see him "be a man and block 50/50s". This dude acting like he wrote the book on Batgirl and has all the answers to the character because he reads frame data. lol

is Batgirl the best character in the game? Hell no. She's top 3-5 because MMH has freedom over most of the cast and Aquaman is still fucking good. Does she have multiple options over majority of the cast and is the best vortex character in the game? I believe yes and that's my opinion. Her being nerfed or buffed doesn't matter anymore, fighting games will always have whacky characters and NRS isn't ashamed to let these characters exist strongly.

The guy shared basic knowledge that everyone on this site knows from a long time ago. It's a waste of a thread, arguably top 5 worst thread in 2014 already. I'm mad yall got me writing in this thread lol

Agreed. The logic is pretty dumb. "Just react to her vortex" and "Pick up another character" are some of my favorite lines in the OP. The character is fucking good. Plain and simple. Basically, the OP is misinformed and the little info that was correct was already known by most.
 

AugustAPC

Not For Sale
Her damage is too high for her design. She's a blender, one vortex and her damage goes way too f*cking high. She should be maxing out at around 42% in the corner. 54% is absolutely ridiculous.
 
No, it's not reactable.

You cannot react to 15 frames. You can't. This needs to stop. You have some legitimate points about Batgirl, but when you start making claims like "you can react to 15 frame mixups", you lose all your credibility.

Lex Luthor's F2 overhead is 15 frames, you cannot react to this.

Green Lantern's F3 overhead is 18 frames, you cannot react to this.

Killer Frost's F3 overhead is 19 frames, you cannot react to this.

I can go on, but by your definition of reactible, half of the true 50/50's in this game aren't really 50/50's at all.
You can react to GL f3 I have played many players who never get hit hit by f3 you can see its animation pretty easily
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Agreed. The logic is pretty dumb. "Just react to her vortex" and "Pick up another character" are some of my favorite lines in the OP. The character is fucking good. Plain and simple. Basically, the OP is misinformed and the little info that was correct was already known by most.
I changed the OP, people didn't get that I was joking about changing characters. Who changes character because of one move? lol

I KNOW she's good, I'm not disputing that, I'm just trying to put the whole "she's OP" and "she's broken" thing to rest.

If it's so "known" then why is it never used?
 

ReD WolF

Lord of the Drip
I changed the OP, people didn't get that I was joking about changing characters. Who changes character because of one move? lol

I KNOW she's good, I'm not disputing that, I'm just trying to put the whole "she's OP" and "she's broken" thing to rest.

If it's so "known" then why is it never used?

Shes's not broken, but the argument that she's a little OP isn't a far-fetched one. I'm not asking for changes to her at all, but a small, crippled girl taking half your life in the corner potentially off a guess is a little ridiculous.
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
thats the definition of selling it, i've tried to stone cold stunner someone in real life in a fight, they would never bounce back like that haha.
That is a sweet launcher, maybe he can combo into another stunner from it.
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Tell a tekken player you can react to 15 frame moves and they'll laugh you out of the building lol. It's a straight up guess
I already suggested moving on from the whole reactions thing since it's causing tension that isn't necessary and isn't what this thread is supposed to be about. It's just to stop with all the "she's broken" comments.
 
Killer Frost's f3 seems faster...maybe I'm wrong about that though I dont know

I never said you can react to any of these RAW. But the average human reaction time is a fifth of a second, and Batgirls b1 and b2 are a quarter of a second. A fifth is 12 frames so TECHNICALLY it is .

Common misconception. You are using average human reaction time to a single stimulus.

You are using "click this button when you see the green light" reaction timing.

You should be using "if the light turns green, right click. If the light turns red, left click" reaction time.

The difference is obvious, you aren't just reacting to something happening, you have to take into account what happens, and formulate the right response.

Its not reactible, not even technically.
 

Chongo

Dead Kings Rise
I already suggested moving on from the whole reactions thing since it's causing tension that isn't necessary and isn't what this thread is supposed to be about. It's just to stop with all the "she's broken" comments.
How do we know she's not broken though? The game is super young, and she's even younger. There's no way this character has been maxed out to full potential right now.
 

TKB

Noob
I'd like to see B2U3 and changed to -10 to give more characters easier punishment options(It's already punishable so no big deal), and B12,B2D3 changed to -6 to make it so she has to respect any followups(No mashing out after a successful block). And adjust the hitbox on the first few hits of the batwheel(It's hitbox is pretty dumb).
Wow this is literally EXACTLY what I was about to post.
 

Wigy

There it is...
Man 3/4 of the people in this thread need to learn to read properly, feel bad for youphemism.

His comment about reactions though is true, us scots have inhuman reaction speeds. Fuzzy guarding CSZ and Scorpions 50/50s all day :DOGE
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Man 3/4 of the people in this thread need to learn to read properly, feel bad for youphemism.

His comment about reactions though is true, us scots have inhuman reaction speeds. Fuzzy guarding CSZ and Scorpions 50/50s all day :DOGE
It's from all the haggis catching and bagpipe playing we do of course :DOGE
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Common misconception. You are using average human reaction time to a single stimulus.

You are using "click this button when you see the green light" reaction timing.

You should be using "if the light turns green, right click. If the light turns red, left click" reaction time.

The difference is obvious, you aren't just reacting to something happening, you have to take into account what happens, and formulate the right response.

Its not reactible, not even technically.
You're still on that? I said we should just move on since there's tension and it's not to do with the topic in the OP so just leave it since we'll be at it all day lol

How do we know she's not broken though? The game is super young, and she's even younger. There's no way this character has been maxed out to full potential right now.
I mean based on what we know about her now, everyone probably has something we don't know about
 

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
No, it's not reactable.

You cannot react to 15 frames. You can't. This needs to stop. You have some legitimate points about Batgirl, but when you start making claims like "you can react to 15 frame mixups", you lose all your credibility.

Lex Luthor's F2 overhead is 15 frames, you cannot react to this.

Green Lantern's F3 overhead is 18 frames, you cannot react to this.

Killer Frost's F3 overhead is 19 frames, you cannot react to this.

I can go on, but by your definition of reactible, half of the true 50/50's in this game aren't really 50/50's at all.

This is where I disagree with people. But this takes some level of training.

I don't think half of the 50/50's in this game are true 50/50's. The time it takes for a person to react, process the information, and make a decision on that information is around 18f AT BEST (usually a little over 20f). However, this marks the difference between a decision and a point-and-click reaction as done in most tests. The latter can be reactable around 12-13f.

This is still useful because of fuzzy guarding. If you can make fuzzy guarding your reaction to a motion, you can react more quickly than if you're looking for the low or overhead. So, 50/50's that are <~18f that aren't fuzzyable like Lex's (technically it is, but you're probably not going to get a 1f fuzzy) are true 50/50's imo. When it's something like a 12f low and 18f overhead though, it's not.

edit: I just saw you already talked about this kind of. But this goes off what you're saying.
 
This is where I disagree with people. But this takes some level of training.

I don't think half of the 50/50's in this game are true 50/50's. The time it takes for a person to react, process the information, and make a decision on that information is around 18f AT BEST (usually a little over 20f). However, this marks the difference between a decision and a point-and-click reaction as done in most tests. The latter can be reactable around 12-13f.

This is still useful because of fuzzy guarding. If you can make fuzzy guarding your reaction to a motion, you can react more quickly than if you're looking for the low or overhead. So, 50/50's that are <~18f that aren't fuzzyable like Lex's (technically it is, but you're probably not going to get a 1f fuzzy) are true 50/50's imo. When it's something like a 12f low and 18f overhead though, it's not.

edit: I just saw you already talked about this kind of. But this goes off what you're saying.
Not sure what your saying.

But 18 frame mixups are not reactible.

And 15 frame mixups aren't either

Batgirls mixup is not fuzzyable. You cannot reduce it to a single stimulus
 

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
This is where I disagree with people. But this takes some level of training.

I don't think half of the 50/50's in this game are true 50/50's. The time it takes for a person to react, process the information, and make a decision on that information is around 18f AT BEST (usually a little over 20f). However, this marks the difference between a decision and a point-and-click reaction as done in most tests. The latter can be reactable around 12-13f.

This is still useful because of fuzzy guarding. If you can make fuzzy guarding your reaction to a motion, you can react more quickly than if you're looking for the low or overhead. So, 50/50's that are <~18f that aren't fuzzyable like Lex's (technically it is, but you're probably not going to get a 1f fuzzy) are true 50/50's imo. When it's something like a 12f low and 18f overhead though, it's not.

edit: I just saw you already talked about this kind of. But this goes off what you're saying.
If you think Batgirl's mixups are reactable than you don't know what your talking about ninja
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
MOVE ON FROM THE REACTIONS THING. Have none of you read further back? Lol

This is not the point of the thread, it is to discuss, yes or no, whether Batgirl is broken/OP or not. Let's keep to that.