Pig Of The Hut
Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
PIG
regarding (1. Although shin approved it and have me the go ahead why didn't the pre reg thing happen? This is very easy to do. Two ways, pools 15+16 or allocate first two rounds of pools have have the non pre reg play each other first immediately first two rounds despite skill/location)
this is actually the first I heard about any of this - I don't know if there was a communication breakdown or what, but it was never brought to my attention. I didn't even know you guys had a bonus pot? I will tell you that the main reason why this would not have worked in our scenario was due to schedule conflicts - we had hundreds of people in multiple games on the same day, so any late comers would have had the potential for conflicts, and that's something we try first and foremost to avoid. plus, the pools needed to be even in number, else if 1-14 had 8 or 9 people and 15-16 had 16 each at the door, it wouldn't have been fair across the board, as 15-16 would have had to win more matches, work harder, etc. than everyone else, which could have caused more issues. we work very hard to ensure that scheduling conflicts do not happen, hence why a few people from Mike's original seeding might have been moved (if they were playing in multiple games). That's about all I have on point 1 - you might want to talk to Larry about it, he wondered why you didn't contact him directly.
i can say that the pools should have been intact from what mike did originally - if they weren't for some reason, that was an oversight.
after the redo, of course
PIG
regarding point #2 Who made KN merge pools and screw up seeding and pools even more than what they were?
I combined the pools, I take full responsibility for that action - the reasoning is similar to what I mentioned in point 1 - the times weren't changed, but we do have as an official rule on the website that all games are played in 16 man pools. The bracket math gets fucked up if you have less than 8 people in a pool, which was the case in injustice - you have people flipping in the bracket at the wrong times, which also further creates issues that people will complain about later (we've had it happen before). The thing is, normally when we do our seedings, we seed by top players and region only. I see now that you guys had EVERYTHING seeded, and that's not how any of the other games at FR were done. If the math was followed correctly (which I can't really speak to quite yet, I'll address that in #3), then it shouldn't have mattered that the pools were combined, b/c the players would have met at the same time that they normally should have, just in pools instead of out of pools. Even though we use pools, the rule for FR is that once you come out of pools, you are set up in the same way that you would have been set up had this been one big 128 man bracket, aside from the fact that you are constrained to the pools themselves. So technically, coming out of pools, the players *should* have met the same players they would have met if these were 8 man pools instead. But again, I'm getting to that in a sec...
PIG
Addressing #3. Was KN in charge of FR INJ? Or was shin or yourself? There was not ever a single bit of accountability when any issue arose .
Let me start this one by saying that I think Shock did a great job with what he had regarding the patch issues, the move of the equipment, etc. - the only one of the volunteers that I met outside of Shock was (I think) Kevin? (The dude wearing the black muscle shirt). I could tell that he was not only more than willing to go out of his way to do things right, but he was also super hype about it all. When I first caught wind of the complaints, I told one of the guys that I didn't care if they reseeded or did whatever as long as it didn't conflict with the time schedule, which, again, we HAD to uphold first and foremost, b/c I had 5 other games running at the same time and I didn't want anyone getting DQ'd b/c they were still in another game. That takes precedence above all, b/c we don't want anyone having a bad experience at FR because of this. We have a plan to address this type of thing in future years specifically because of this situation, provided your community will still want to participate. In the end, the FR staff (myself included) had to take more of a hands off approach and just let the volunteers (I don't know if they were affiliated with KN or not, they were just on my list) make the calls in hopes that it was representing what the community wanted. I personally checked in as often as I could, but I was in charge of running the Grand Ballroom where Marvel and Tekken were, so I didn't get the opportunity to come over as often as I would have liked, admittedly. But when I did, I got the impression that everything was running fine - no one addressed any particular complaint with me except for the pools running a little late at times, but that also didn't seem to be much of an issue since most of the people playing were either taking steps to let the other TO's know what was going on if they were in another game or were just in Injustice only.
Let me also say that I'm not "blaming" any of the volunteers - they had quite a bit of shit to work through, and I think they handled it well. We just should have been more involved.
PIG:
4. You may not know this but MANY players magically appeared in last pool for mk after pool were approved 30 secs before the tourney started for balance. In fact one player named "gross" was DQ'ed for being 2-3 hours late of his scheduled pool and magically re added back in after he talked w someone . How does this happen? Who is to say I can't sleep in and attend when I want and magically get added somewhere too .
Regarding #4, I have absolutely no idea - when I turned the pools over, that was pretty much it. If people were added late, it had to be one of the volunteers that did it unless Larry himself walked over and said it was OK. I will put the blame on someone for that, because if they were letting people in the brackets and not collecting money and then transferring the money for us, that's a problem - all entry fees that are put in to the pot (that $10 per player) and if it wasn't there, then FR is out $10 for each person this happened with. So I would like to know more about this one myself. I'm still processing all the results (should be done by this weekend), but if I see a name in a bracket that belongs to someone that isn't in my registration system, then we are going to have a problem, because nobody put money in my hand at the end of the night that said "this is for XXX"
all of this being said - we can't make up for any issues that the NRS community have brought forth, that's all done. All we can do in the future is better accommodate you guys and try to do the best that we can to learn from the mistakes that are made and make sure that they don't happen again. even before any of this was brought up, we were already discussing a new plan to handle tournaments that have a strong community presence (like yourselves and SC, for example) that will address your needs and make sure that everyone has the best experience possible. More details on that to come.
Thank you all for attending Final Round 17. The hype is real with the NRS community, that's for sure. We hope that you will continue attending future events and that we can work together to make sure that everyone has the best experience possible! Kyah "BobSmack" Hicks Chief Technical Officer, Final Round, LLC.
Chat Conversation End
@STORMS @Shock @GGA 16 Bit @CrimsonShadow @Mikemetroid
regarding (1. Although shin approved it and have me the go ahead why didn't the pre reg thing happen? This is very easy to do. Two ways, pools 15+16 or allocate first two rounds of pools have have the non pre reg play each other first immediately first two rounds despite skill/location)
this is actually the first I heard about any of this - I don't know if there was a communication breakdown or what, but it was never brought to my attention. I didn't even know you guys had a bonus pot? I will tell you that the main reason why this would not have worked in our scenario was due to schedule conflicts - we had hundreds of people in multiple games on the same day, so any late comers would have had the potential for conflicts, and that's something we try first and foremost to avoid. plus, the pools needed to be even in number, else if 1-14 had 8 or 9 people and 15-16 had 16 each at the door, it wouldn't have been fair across the board, as 15-16 would have had to win more matches, work harder, etc. than everyone else, which could have caused more issues. we work very hard to ensure that scheduling conflicts do not happen, hence why a few people from Mike's original seeding might have been moved (if they were playing in multiple games). That's about all I have on point 1 - you might want to talk to Larry about it, he wondered why you didn't contact him directly.
i can say that the pools should have been intact from what mike did originally - if they weren't for some reason, that was an oversight.
after the redo, of course
PIG
regarding point #2 Who made KN merge pools and screw up seeding and pools even more than what they were?
I combined the pools, I take full responsibility for that action - the reasoning is similar to what I mentioned in point 1 - the times weren't changed, but we do have as an official rule on the website that all games are played in 16 man pools. The bracket math gets fucked up if you have less than 8 people in a pool, which was the case in injustice - you have people flipping in the bracket at the wrong times, which also further creates issues that people will complain about later (we've had it happen before). The thing is, normally when we do our seedings, we seed by top players and region only. I see now that you guys had EVERYTHING seeded, and that's not how any of the other games at FR were done. If the math was followed correctly (which I can't really speak to quite yet, I'll address that in #3), then it shouldn't have mattered that the pools were combined, b/c the players would have met at the same time that they normally should have, just in pools instead of out of pools. Even though we use pools, the rule for FR is that once you come out of pools, you are set up in the same way that you would have been set up had this been one big 128 man bracket, aside from the fact that you are constrained to the pools themselves. So technically, coming out of pools, the players *should* have met the same players they would have met if these were 8 man pools instead. But again, I'm getting to that in a sec...
PIG
Addressing #3. Was KN in charge of FR INJ? Or was shin or yourself? There was not ever a single bit of accountability when any issue arose .
Let me start this one by saying that I think Shock did a great job with what he had regarding the patch issues, the move of the equipment, etc. - the only one of the volunteers that I met outside of Shock was (I think) Kevin? (The dude wearing the black muscle shirt). I could tell that he was not only more than willing to go out of his way to do things right, but he was also super hype about it all. When I first caught wind of the complaints, I told one of the guys that I didn't care if they reseeded or did whatever as long as it didn't conflict with the time schedule, which, again, we HAD to uphold first and foremost, b/c I had 5 other games running at the same time and I didn't want anyone getting DQ'd b/c they were still in another game. That takes precedence above all, b/c we don't want anyone having a bad experience at FR because of this. We have a plan to address this type of thing in future years specifically because of this situation, provided your community will still want to participate. In the end, the FR staff (myself included) had to take more of a hands off approach and just let the volunteers (I don't know if they were affiliated with KN or not, they were just on my list) make the calls in hopes that it was representing what the community wanted. I personally checked in as often as I could, but I was in charge of running the Grand Ballroom where Marvel and Tekken were, so I didn't get the opportunity to come over as often as I would have liked, admittedly. But when I did, I got the impression that everything was running fine - no one addressed any particular complaint with me except for the pools running a little late at times, but that also didn't seem to be much of an issue since most of the people playing were either taking steps to let the other TO's know what was going on if they were in another game or were just in Injustice only.
Let me also say that I'm not "blaming" any of the volunteers - they had quite a bit of shit to work through, and I think they handled it well. We just should have been more involved.
PIG:
4. You may not know this but MANY players magically appeared in last pool for mk after pool were approved 30 secs before the tourney started for balance. In fact one player named "gross" was DQ'ed for being 2-3 hours late of his scheduled pool and magically re added back in after he talked w someone . How does this happen? Who is to say I can't sleep in and attend when I want and magically get added somewhere too .
Regarding #4, I have absolutely no idea - when I turned the pools over, that was pretty much it. If people were added late, it had to be one of the volunteers that did it unless Larry himself walked over and said it was OK. I will put the blame on someone for that, because if they were letting people in the brackets and not collecting money and then transferring the money for us, that's a problem - all entry fees that are put in to the pot (that $10 per player) and if it wasn't there, then FR is out $10 for each person this happened with. So I would like to know more about this one myself. I'm still processing all the results (should be done by this weekend), but if I see a name in a bracket that belongs to someone that isn't in my registration system, then we are going to have a problem, because nobody put money in my hand at the end of the night that said "this is for XXX"
all of this being said - we can't make up for any issues that the NRS community have brought forth, that's all done. All we can do in the future is better accommodate you guys and try to do the best that we can to learn from the mistakes that are made and make sure that they don't happen again. even before any of this was brought up, we were already discussing a new plan to handle tournaments that have a strong community presence (like yourselves and SC, for example) that will address your needs and make sure that everyone has the best experience possible. More details on that to come.
Thank you all for attending Final Round 17. The hype is real with the NRS community, that's for sure. We hope that you will continue attending future events and that we can work together to make sure that everyone has the best experience possible! Kyah "BobSmack" Hicks Chief Technical Officer, Final Round, LLC.
Chat Conversation End
@STORMS @Shock @GGA 16 Bit @CrimsonShadow @Mikemetroid
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