Correction: ALL push block setups now do 0%

[RIF]

Glitches don't need to be evaluated. They need to be removed. Tier list be damned.

It is not a glitch. It's unforseen game design. There is a difference.

 

[trufenix]

It is not a glitch. It's unforseen game design. There is a difference.

I think this resolution speaks stronger for my case than yours. Do you have some proof?

 

[Madog32]

Zod and Bane both have traits that drastically change how the characters play when trait is active. Both of them get to use their trait AT WILL and enjoy extreme advantage.
How is it any different from this characters? You can't challenge Bane when he has trait. You have to sit and block repeatedly against Zod when he has trait. Because it's offense? That's a distinction YOU are making while playing a character built around offense. Sinestro is a DEFENSIVE character. The gameplay is not the same.

Bane and Zod's traits both last X amount of time. There will always be a window of time AFTER they've used trait where you as the opponent are safe to move in again. This is not the case with Sinestro. Once his trait is out, it will not go away unless you approach him and give him the chance to pushblock, or he wastes it stupidly. This is the biggest difference. How does everyone not see how broken that advantage is to a character like Sinestro?

 

[RIF]

I think this resolution speaks stronger for my case than yours. Do you have some proof?

The fact that Lex and Joker players have been performing pushblock tech for nearly a year now suggests that they were okay with players using pushblock into setups. Sinestro's trait was always designed to function differently than other projectiles. Sinestro has had combos that require trait's unique properties in order to function. The community and game creators were okay with Sinestro players doing 44% combos with 1 trait shot or 55% with 2-3 trait shots in the corner.

1 + 1 = 2

They didn't foresee Sinestro players putting these two pieces together.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Sinestro has to EARN his advantage. Sinestro's trait tech IS defensive and therefor has a higher risk associated with it by definition.

This is wrong.

Name me one character that has a 5050 from the max range of one of their options, because there isnt one.
KFs overhead doesnt reach as far as her slide.
WoWos 33 doesnt reach as far as her B2.
CW B1 doesnt reach as far as her F1.
Batgirls overhead doesnt reach as far as her low.

So yeah, blocking was free, there is no risk at all as long as you're blocking the correct way.
Other characters would have had even more issue with this if they dont have legit 5050s.

Sinestros trait is supposed to make him a better character, not make him punish you for putting up offense when its your turn.

If you got the trait up in the first place, you dont have the rushdown characters in your face, obviously

 

[RIF]

Bane and Zod's traits both last X amount of time. There will always be a window of time AFTER they've used trait where you as the opponent are safe to move in again. This is not the case with Sinestro. Once his trait is out, it will not go away unless you approach him and give him the chance to pushblock, or he wastes it stupidly. This is the biggest difference. How does everyone not see how broken that advantage is to a character like Sinestro?

The bias is very strong in your comments. Why does it stay out? Have you considered why that is? It's because it is supposed to be there to because it is earned. You can get rid of trait via clash or transition.

Bane's venom is hardly ever NOT on. You're never safe against Bane. Zod can lock you down, get trait out, then put you in continuous 50/50s. Then he can zone you out/run away until trait is back up.

The misunderstanding of trait is clearly a problem. Sinestro is UNSAFE. Trait is required to make him SAFE. Sinestro players must gain trait in order to apply pressure. Fear Blast is negative.

 

[shaowebb]

i actually wanted to see sinestro's trait push block used in tournament. oh well (of course not used on me, but on some1 else to see the salt/hype)

We DID. However, the dude who switched to it in the upper rankings didn't play Sinestro so he dropped it every time.

Still, after being a guy who played Tatsunoko vs Capcom I have to say this is a VERY GOOD THING that happened. In TVC there were defensive tools that could lead to combos and it really hurt the scene. Eventually folks started using baroque to negate that game's uber pushblock (called mega crash) and destroy folks for it so it wasn't quite the same situation it was here. I'd honestly call it way worse. However, the shitstorm of people dumping that title when they found out folks could block and use a defensive tool to start a combo and kill them was insane. We DONT want that here. Especially since we have no real tools to contend with this....fun fact the thing they used to deal with this was even worse broken tech. They'd use baroque (equivalent of an X-factor cancel) to negate the pushback on their megacrash and blow it up . It went from defense is too stronk to Zero was never able to be removed and you were stuck in blockstring infinites till you died by guys like Marn).

Point is this was a defensive tool that turned into a straight up combo starter and thats terrible for any game. We didn't need this. Not when our top 10 are so diverse these days and folks are actually showing signs of life.

 

[Braindead]

The bias is very strong in your comments. Why does it stay out? Have you considered why that is? It's because it is supposed to be there to because it is earned. You can get rid of trait via clash or transition.

Bane's venom is hardly ever NOT on. You're never safe against Bane. Zod can lock you down, get trait out, then put you in continuous 50/50s. Then he can zone you out/run away until trait is back up.

The misunderstanding of trait is clearly a problem. Sinestro is UNSAFE. Trait is required to make him SAFE. Sinestro players must gain trait in order to apply pressure. Fear Blast is negative.

Trait makes him safe. OK.
Trait gives him 38% combo into vortex IF HE BLOCKS --> NOT OK.

EDIT: This is a better way to put it:
Trait makes him safe -> OK
Trait makes his opponent unsafe on 99% of their shit -> NOT OK

 

[trufenix]

They didn't foresee Sinestro players putting these two pieces together.

So, because they didn't fix it earlier its not a glitch? What kind of logic is that. How long does a glitch have to be in a game before its called "unintentional design" ?

 

[Madog32]

The bias is very strong in your comments. Why does it stay out? Have you considered why that is? It's because it is supposed to be there to because it is earned. You can get rid of trait via clash or transition.

Bane's venom is hardly ever NOT on. You're never safe against Bane. Zod can lock you down, get trait out, then put you in continuous 50/50s. Then he can zone you out/run away until trait is back up.

The misunderstanding of trait is clearly a problem. Sinestro is UNSAFE. Trait is required to make him SAFE. Sinestro players must gain trait in order to apply pressure. Fear Blast is negative.

The use of trait to make Sinestro safe is legit. I never argued that. I argued the use of a defensive mechanism available to everyone to gain breathing room being used as an offensive attack that launches into vortex, with no setup required and no worry of your trait "running out of time" on you as broken.

And don't complain about getting the time to charge trait to a KF player. Just because you managed to find time to charge it doesn't mean you should be rewarded with 38% reversals on safe strings until I manage to transition or clash you.

Also, Bane does go through a cooldown. KF relies on it. If that did not exist, the matchup would be far worse. If you're not able to capitalize on it, that's another issue. BUt it is available to you.

 

[@MylesWright_]

Killer Frost is still bad

 

[The PantyChrist]

I'm gonna agree that it's not a glitch, But a design oversight. He was designed to be able to use trait shot during recovery frames and it was never thought to be used like that until last week

 

[The PantyChrist]

Joker lex and cyborg probably needed it though. No one cared until it turned out Sinestro could do it too

 

[deathblooms2k4]

Remember that time everyone freaked about about scorpion teleport because it "broke the design of the game"? What ever happened to our scorpion friend? I think the lesson to be learned here is that if you really like a character that you're playing and want him to stay the same, keep your mouth shut about the tech you know. Sharing info with TYM only serves to have people raise their pitchforks and scream for nerfs.

 

[G4S KT]

this is awesome, HUGE ups to NRS for fixing this nonsense

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Even if they changed it to where you can only trait shot after the push block animation is finished, you'd still be able to get the same interactable setup anyway. It's just the design of the character.

So u think MKDC GL was fair?

 

[RNLDRGN]

Everyone in here praising this hotfix and whining that this pushblock setup was overpowered really shows how little they understand the character or how little they care to compare this tech vs the dirt a huge portion of the cast already has.

You guys realize that pushblock into vortex or pushblock into high damage required multiple trait shots, a meter, and a corner right? Why would I want to risk eating a mixup and combo just so I could have the option to pushblock someone? I think most Sinestros would rather use trait on zoning and NOT risk blocking a character w/ a solid rushdown offense.

All of the top tiers have "free interactables" and Sinestro has a ton of interact setups w his trait, regardless of this tech. The MK community can be such a hypocritical sack of turds sometimes. Everyone whines and blows up about tech the minute they see it, without ever waiting for it to be fully explored or used in tournament, then whine and blow up when something gets patched and every single matchup isn't exactly the way they want it to be. Seriously, take a step back and look how silly everyone sounds.

Is it a big deal they patched it? Not really. Was it a HUGE and game-changing piece of tech? Not really. Did it make you all of a sudden lose/win every matchup? Not really. Did it make Sinestro the best character in the game? Not really.

I feel like Injustice 2/MK10 should ship with a pacifier and an 800# hotline for you to call and have a dev listen to all your whining. lol

 

[Madog32]

Killer Frost is still bad

 

[PND_Mustard]

I love Brady's use of capital letters

 

[Kitana Prime]

Shit was unintended and dumb.
Get it out.
Thanks NRS!

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Pig....interactables aren't just laying around in every situation. You don't get a free interactable. You get interactables in certain instances. It's blanket statements like these that the community latches on to. We make it sound like Sinestro can pick up shit at will and just toss them. No. There's a character out there that CAN do that for free with his trait, but it's not Sinestro.

Well guess what???

When there's no interact able you don't do it

Also have you thought about this?

In the corner. 4 trait shackles nj2 d1 then b12 MB arachnid MB trait trait d1 112 shackles then from here do vortex/b3/f2d13 d1 arachnid ender /or interact able ender for 20% additional dmg

I'm not near my Xbox but I'm near my brain and that tells me that's about 35% free dmg for pushblocking someone in the corner w this tech

How many times have u been in a corner in this game??? Seems pretty legit

 

[Konqrr]

STOP!!! your cries are ridiculous...

I was KILLED by THIS COMMUNITY when sub-zero was SUPER NERFED including him losing his reset while cyrax, smoke, and jax all got to keep theirs. SZ's reset was the least damaging of all the resets and could be escaped with armor while the others were 100% free. I was told "shut the fuck up, Tom", "EXCUSES, TOM.. LEVEL UP", "What a cry baby", etc etc...

It happens.. deal with it..

There is no point in crying over spilled milk. Just gotta deal with it and move forward.

I've been around you so much in this community in person and via podcasts/streams that I heard this entire post as if you were standing right next to me lol

 

[Phosferrax]

I am completely speechless that people are trying to justify Sinestro having that. What is wrong with you people?

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I'm really starting to think that people will defend anything if you put it in a fighting game.

It's like, do people not realize that having a balanced game (and a diverse tournament character pool) does not happen if you just "let everything rock"?

 

[RIF]

This is wrong.

Name me one character that has a 5050 from the max range of one of their options, because there isnt one.
KFs overhead doesnt reach as far as her slide.
WoWos 33 doesnt reach as far as her B2.
CW B1 doesnt reach as far as her F1.
Batgirls overhead doesnt reach as far as her low.

So yeah, blocking was free, there is no risk at all as long as you're blocking the correct way.
Other characters would have had even more issue with this if they dont have legit 5050s.

Sinestros trait is supposed to make him a better character, not make him punish you for putting up offense when its your turn.

If you got the trait up in the first place, you dont have the rushdown characters in your face, obviously

Before I begin, let me state that I believe this tech needed to be evaluated and monitored as it had the potential to impact certain match-ups. I enjoy the discussion. I do not believe the way they implemented this hot-fix was well though out. There were obviously short-comings in their fix.

Frost's 50/50 off her standing low or MB F3 is nearly the same reach.
Batgirl's vortex is very close to being the same distance. It is a guess. Every time.

Blocking is not free, Foxy. This is a disingenuous comment. No one blocks correctly every time.

Let's identify which characters would be minimally effected by this (This isn't to say they would be uneffected, just not as much as others):

- Grundy, Bane, Lex (already a bad MU for Lex), Doomsday

Let's identify which characters inhibit Sinestro's ability to gain trait (NOT including the above characters):

- MMH, Aquaman, Batman, Batgirl, Deathstroke, Flash, Killer Frost, Scorpion, Raven

Then there are certain characters where using this tech isn't ideal:

Hawkgirl

That leaves the following characters:

Ares, Black Adam, Catwoman, Cyborg, Green Arrow, Green Lantern, Harley, Joker, Lobo, Nightwing, Shazaam, Superman, WoWo

We never looked at exploring options each of these characters had for blowing this up. Shazaam has a command grab. That would automatically put the tech at risk against that character. Joker had teeth setups that would blow through the tech. Black Adam could sit outside of conversion range and use lightning. Of the remaining characters, how many of them had ways to potentially counter it? It just wasn't explored.

Please understand that I am NOT saying that the tech might not have caused a problem. It's the fix that is the real problem. 0% and removing Lex/Joker setups is just wrong. I would be happier if they just made trait not fire during pushblock and cause Sinestro's pushblock to move you back further than normal since he's a boss.

Well guess what???

When there's no interact able you don't do it

Also have you thought about this?

In the corner. 4 trait shackles nj2 d1 then b12 MB arachnid MB trait trait d1 112 shackles then from here do vortex/b3/f2d13 d1 arachnid ender /or interact able ender for 20% additional dmg

I'm not near my Xbox but I'm near my brain and that tells me that's about 35% free dmg for pushblocking someone in the corner w this tech

How many times have u been in a corner in this game??? Seems pretty legit

I am also not near my X-Box, but I bet you can pushblock the B12.

Unless Sinestro has trait, being next to his opponent is not ideal. That is a TON of resources. I have to have 2+ bars and FULL TRAIT. On paper, it SOUNDS great, but how often am I in the corner with 2 bars and full trait? IDK...not that often.

Trait makes him safe. OK.
Trait gives him 38% combo into vortex IF HE BLOCKS --> NOT OK.

EDIT: This is a better way to put it:
Trait makes him safe -> OK
Trait makes his opponent unsafe on 99% of their shit -> NOT OK

I agree that the 2 trait shot variant had a chance to be very bad. As I stated numerous times in the discovery thread and here, that the tech needed to be closely monitored. The vortex is becoming easier and easier to block. I just want to mention that as well.

With Scorpion, everyone SAW how powerful his moves were in actual matches. That wasn't tech. That was just his move-set. This was different.

The tech is gone, but the over-reaction to it lives on.