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Match-up Discussion Nightwing Match-Up Discussion (1.06 and on)

Chongo

Chongo

Dead Kings Rise
I mean this in the nicest way possible but reading the replies I can tell some of you have never played a good joker before.
 
Shaazzyam

Shaazzyam

undefeated online evo champion
Qwark28 said:
Why would I ever wake up against NW?

NW doesn't have more reach than Joker's D2 which gives him a combo on hit.

J3 and J2 is something NW can do nothing about.

When Joker has the lifelead YOU get in.
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Well
Don't wake up and be pressured, that's fine. Yes, Nightwing has no reliable anti-airs. No matter what the life lead is, its always going to be harder for Joker to get in.
Qwark28 said:
Pressure without mixups is useless.

I don't care about your pressure, what will you do to punish my backdashes that isn't incredibly risky with barely any return? Wingdings are hella -
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F213 xx Groundpound/ Flipkick/ or staff spin isn't considered a mix up?

RM Chongo said:
I mean this in the nicest way possible but reading the replies I can tell some of you have never played a good joker before.
Click to expand...
I don't get it, what Nightwing has Quark played?



The thing is, theory fighting is easier said than done. The best way to settle MU numbers is to just play. We won't get anywhere like this.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Shaazzyam said:
Well
Don't wake up and be pressured, that's fine. Yes, Nightwing has no reliable anti-airs. No matter what the life lead is, its always going to be harder for Joker to get in.



F213 xx Groundpound/ Flipkick/ or staff spin isn't considered a mix up?



I don't get it, what Nightwing has Quark played?



The thing is, theory fighting is easier said than done. The best way to settle MU numbers is to just play. We won't get anywhere like this.
Click to expand...
Joker doesn't need to get in with the lead, NWs zoning isn't that good.

No, that's not even a mixup.

I've played

Chongo
Assassin
Prycemonsta
Takeachance
An offline local NW
 
TheBoyBlunder

TheBoyBlunder

They love my Grayson
lol wait, Joker outzones NW now? man, can we see a FT15-20 set with Qwark vs a NW? I dont have Xbox so I can't play this. I would love to see that.

I think the match is 5-5, Joker gets in and NW will have a lot of trouble. Downplaying NW isn't going to make it 6-4. Let's see some videos. Enough theory fighting.
 
Dirtylova

Dirtylova

YOLO FLYING GRAYSON BICH
TheBoyBlunder said:
lol wait, Joker outzones NW now? man, can we see a FT15-20 set with Qwark vs a NW? I dont have Xbox so I can't play this. I would love to see that.

I think the match is 5-5, Joker gets in and NW will have a lot of trouble. Downplaying NW isn't going to make it 6-4. Let's see some videos. Enough theory fighting.
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Lets put quark through the gaunlet.. Murk, sajam, shit all the D1cks


Dat UK connect doe.. As far as im concerned, he might as well be playing from narnia......
 
AssassiN

AssassiN

Warrior
Looks like a majority of NW players in here do not understand that this MU is 4-6.
I've played Qwark enough to know how this MU goes. We're both from Europe so we have a better connection than you guys will with Qwark.

F213 into Flipkick/Staff Spin/Ground Pound is not a mix-up... There is a soundcue when switching to Staff and canceling it(while there is no soundcue switching from Staff to Escrima when canceling it at the earliest frame).
The opponent can just block low when he hears it, a possible mix-up would be a delayed Staff Spin and Ground Pound.
Seeing that Ground Pound can be interrupted with a 6-frame move, so a delayed Staff Spin would punish that.

NW has no good AA's, mediocre wake-ups(his Flying Grayson will get you out of a few Joker set-ups) and decent zoning against Joker(Joker has the advantage at first because of how fast his gunshot is).
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
I'll play any nightwing FTanything, and that's with sub-par setups and combos that I use for online.
 
Chongo

Chongo

Dead Kings Rise
AssassiN said:
Looks like a majority of NW players in here do not understand that this MU is 4-6.
I've played Qwark enough to know how this MU goes. We're both from Europe so we have a better connection than you guys will with Qwark.

F213 into Flipkick/Staff Spin/Ground Pound is not a mix-up... There is a soundcue when switching to Staff and canceling it(while there is no soundcue switching from Staff to Escrima when canceling it at the earliest frame).
The opponent can just block low when he hears it, a possible mix-up would be a delayed Staff Spin and Ground Pound.
Seeing that Ground Pound can be interrupted with a 6-frame move, so a delayed Staff Spin would punish that.

NW has no good AA's, mediocre wake-ups(his Flying Grayson will get you out of a few Joker set-ups) and decent zoning against Joker(Joker has the advantage at first because of how fast his gunshot is).
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Also a little thing to note is that you will lose trades (gunshot does around 9% while ground spark does 8% and ground blast does 5%)

To stop him from jumping you have to do preemptive scatter bombs which do no damage and have the hitbox of a skittle, or a preemptive j1.
 
TheBoyBlunder

TheBoyBlunder

They love my Grayson
RM Chongo said:
Lool

But yeah, @AssassiN described why joker wins pretty well.
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Not at all. He only played one Joker so I'm not taking anyone who says "I played Qwark" that seriously. He isn't the Joker of the world and he isn't the only Joker player out there, so lets kill that noise.

AssassiN said:
Looks like a majority of NW players in here do not understand that this MU is 4-6.
I've played Qwark enough to know how this MU goes. We're both from Europe so we have a better connection than you guys will with Qwark.

F213 into Flipkick/Staff Spin/Ground Pound is not a mix-up... There is a soundcue when switching to Staff and canceling it(while there is no soundcue switching from Staff to Escrima when canceling it at the earliest frame).
The opponent can just block low when he hears it, a possible mix-up would be a delayed Staff Spin and Ground Pound.
Seeing that Ground Pound can be interrupted with a 6-frame move, so a delayed Staff Spin would punish that.

NW has no good AA's, mediocre wake-ups(his Flying Grayson will get you out of a few Joker set-ups) and decent zoning against Joker(Joker has the advantage at first because of how fast his gunshot is).
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This explains nothing.
First, Nightwing has no good AAs against anyone, so it's a redundant point that's been gone over before.
NW doesn't need to wake up against Joker, this is a match where push block is important and if you're not using push block you're getting scrubbed out by Qwark. Joker has frame traps for days. Plus, Joker can punish any wake up NW has with teeth set ups. This is so obvious to anyone who has played the match up and especially if a Joker player knows how NW wakeups work.

Ground sparks go under gunshot, despite gunshot being faster. If you're getting outzoned by Joker then you're getting outplayed. Joker can check wingdings with J3 so if you're getting caught in the air chucking wingdings in range where Joker can punish then I could see why you're failing at keeping Joker away.

This is stuff you'll talk about playing the Joker MU from day 1. It's not in-depth at all.

You guys need to post a video instead of dismissing this and just saying "I fought Qwark, I don't need to prove anything else"

It's mindless and unconstructive to the thread. I'm not going to theory fight here all day, I want to see actual footage.

I'll try to get a FT10 recorded on live stream with Dark and I and even another Nightwing DJA_Homies. I'll let you guys know when the video is coming.
 
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TheBoyBlunder

TheBoyBlunder

They love my Grayson
RM Chongo said:
Also a little thing to note is that you will lose trades (gunshot does around 9% while ground spark does 8% and ground blast does 5%)

To stop him from jumping you have to do preemptive scatter bombs which do no damage and have the hitbox of a skittle, or a preemptive j1.
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This isn't Street Fighter. If you're not Aquaman, DS, Flash or WW you have no chance on standing there like a duck and trying to anti air Joker. That is a very poor way to play the matchup especially since you know NW has horrible anti airs beyond D2 and JB2 in staff.
Back dash and make Joker whiff on his jump in attacks. Theres no reason for you to let Joker jump in on so he can work his combo strings that are in plus frames, you're giving him free pressure. You're going to have to pushblock if you're fighting a really good Joker who jumped in on you because you tried to anti air or block a raw jump in.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
TheBoyBlunder said:
Not at all. He only played one Joker so I'm not taking anyone who says "I played Qwark" that seriously. He isn't the Joker of the world and he isn't the only Joker player out there, so lets kill that noise.



This explains nothing.
First, Nightwing has no good AAs against anyone, so it's a redundant point that's been gone over before.
NW doesn't need to wake up against Joker, this is a match where push block is important and if you're not using push block you're getting scrubbed out by Qwark. Joker has frame traps for days. Plus, Joker can punish any wake up NW has with teeth set ups. This is so obvious to anyone who has played the match up and especially if a Joker player knows how NW wakeups work.

Ground sparks go under gunshot, despite gunshot being faster. If you're getting outzoned by Joker then you're getting outplayed. Joker can check wingdings with J3 so if you're getting caught in the air chucking wingdings in range where Joker can punish then I could see why you're failing at keeping Joker away.

This is stuff you'll talk about playing the Joker MU from day 1. It's not in-depth at all.

You guys need to post a video instead of dismissing this and just saying "I fought Qwark, I don't need to prove anything else"

It's mindless and unconstructive to the thread. I'm not going to theory fight here all day, I want to see actual footage.

I'll try to get a FT10 recorded on live stream with Dark and I and even another Nightwing DJA_Homies. I'll let you guys know when the video is coming.
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Lol scrubbed out.

Joker has only few frametraps. No, you don't punish wakeups nightwing has with teeth, not anything beyond the standard setups.

Ground sparks go under gunshot if the Joker plays lets you start them up before he shoots.

Joker can't check wingdings with J3 unless they're either done really high where it's a punish or a really specific height where J3 catches the backdash, anything less and it's a backdash away.

The fact that NW has no AAs is not Joker specific, it is something your character CAN'T do. That's kinda the point why the situation is favorable for Joker.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
TheBoyBlunder said:
This isn't Street Fighter. If you're not Aquaman, DS, Flash or WW you have no chance on standing there like a duck and trying to anti air Joker. That is a very poor way to play the matchup especially since you know NW has horrible anti airs beyond D2 and JB2 in staff.
Back dash and make Joker whiff on his jump in attacks. Theres no reason for you to let Joker jump in on so he can work his combo strings that are in plus frames, you're giving him free pressure. You're going to have to pushblock if you're fighting a really good Joker who jumped in on you because you tried to anti air or block a raw jump in.
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He's only + on one string worth using and that doesn't even make a difference when it comes to opening you up via frametraps, unless you don't know the matchup and are allowing him to get away with shit.
 
AssassiN

AssassiN

Warrior
TheBoyBlunder said:
Not at all. He only played one Joker so I'm not taking anyone who says "I played Qwark" that seriously. He isn't the Joker of the world and he isn't the only Joker player out there, so lets kill that noise.



This explains nothing.
First, Nightwing has no good AAs against anyone, so it's a redundant point that's been gone over before.
NW doesn't need to wake up against Joker, this is a match where push block is important and if you're not using push block you're getting scrubbed out by Qwark. Joker has frame traps for days. Plus, Joker can punish any wake up NW has with teeth set ups. This is so obvious to anyone who has played the match up and especially if a Joker player knows how NW wakeups work.

Ground sparks go under gunshot, despite gunshot being faster. If you're getting outzoned by Joker then you're getting outplayed. Joker can check wingdings with J3 so if you're getting caught in the air chucking wingdings in range where Joker can punish then I could see why you're failing at keeping Joker away.

This is stuff you'll talk about playing the Joker MU from day 1. It's not in-depth at all.

You guys need to post a video instead of dismissing this and just saying "I fought Qwark, I don't need to prove anything else"

It's mindless and unconstructive to the thread. I'm not going to theory fight here all day, I want to see actual footage.

I'll try to get a FT10 recorded on live stream with Dark and I and even another Nightwing DJA_Homies. I'll let you guys know when the video is coming.
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Was not in the mood to go in-depth...
Well yeah, NW has no good AA's against anyone while Joker pretty much relies on jumping.
Have fun eating teeth-setups if you think he doesn't need to wake-up against Joker.

NW's Spark and Ground Pound go under gunshot, that is true lol. Thanks for sharing day-1 tech...
Yet in a neutral situation you have to bait a gunshot to get something out.
You're confusing me with a Scrub NW that does mindless Sparks and Wing Dings.

One player playing the character different in a MU is all that is needed to change your mind.

I'm thinking about buying a capture device, if I do I'll record sets with Qwark.
 
TheBoyBlunder

TheBoyBlunder

They love my Grayson
Qwark28 said:
Lol scrubbed out.

Joker has only few frametraps. No, you don't punish wakeups nightwing has with teeth, not anything beyond the standard setups.

Ground sparks go under gunshot if the Joker plays lets you start them up before he shoots.

Joker can't check wingdings with J3 unless they're either done really high where it's a punish or a really specific height where J3 catches the backdash, anything less and it's a backdash away.

The fact that NW has no AAs is not Joker specific, it is something your character CAN'T do. That's kinda the point why the situation is favorable for Joker.
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1. Only a few frametraps? He just needs 2. I know he has more but Joker has respectable blockstrings and that was my point. What are you disagreeing about?
-Theres many ways to punish Nightwing's wake ups, teeth can be one of them and I've done it on NW's playing around with Joker, you don't have to act like theres a secret ingredient to it.

2. You could try to beat ground sparks, but Joker's bang is as readable and they can be done after dunking Joker's bang, after that; NW controls zoning. Letting Joker shoot first isn't a problem at all. Anyone who gets hit by it just made a poor read.

3. I stated Joker can check wingdings in a punishable range, not just anywhere. Once again, you're disagreeing about nothing.

3. NW can keep Joker in check with his NJ2 or JB 2 in staff. If timed right, D2 can keep Joker from doing his jump over J2 after D1. NW has options to keep Joker away, you either aren't facing anyone using them or you're lag switch is godlike. Your theory is a match is 6-4 because an opponent can't anti air Joker? That's hilarious.

AssassiN said:
Was not in the mood to go in-depth...
Well yeah, NW has no good AA's against anyone while Joker pretty much relies on jumping.
Have fun eating teeth-setups if you think he doesn't need to wake-up against Joker.

NW's Spark and Ground Pound go under gunshot, that is true lol. Thanks for sharing day-1 tech...
Yet in a neutral situation you have to bait a gunshot to get something out.
You're confusing me with a Scrub NW that does mindless Sparks and Wing Dings.

One player playing the character different in a MU is all that is needed to change your mind.

I'm thinking about buying a capture device, if I do I'll record sets with Qwark.
Click to expand...


If you're getting beat by raw jump ins from Joker, then that's a personal problem. Not a Nightwing problem.
You're waking up against Joker? No wonder why you're getting bodied. Joker blows up everything Nightwing has.

So I NEED to wake up against Joker is what you're saying?

So explain now:

Escrima Fury
Flip Kick
Staff Spin
Flying Grayson

How do these wake ups benefit Nightwing in the Joker match up? The only one I can think of is Flying Grayson to get out Joker's corner game. If you're mashing wake ups after getting hard knock down by Joker, it's obvious you have a personal problem playing the Nightwing-Joker match up.

Why is so hard for you to bait shot gun? You're talking about day 1 tech, but you make it seem like it's a mission to do something so fundamental in a fighting game with trading projectiles. In fact, Joker offline is a totally different character. In poor connection, anti air Joker's jump over with D2 is a fail waiting to happen. You're basing this entire match up because you don't know how to anti air Joker. Nightwing doesn't have the best tools like Aquaman and cast, but he still has tools. Learn how to use them. If Sajam can anti air Batman's J2 with NW's 12 frame D2, you shouldn't be struggling to anti air a yolo jump in Joker.

I rather see another NW play the set than a NW with bad habits that Qwark downloaded a long time ago. We don't need to see putty patrol, We need the Power Rangers.
 
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