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Considerations for MK2/10/X and why presentations can be just as important as gameplay.

Rathalos

Play Monster Hunter!
Over the course of this year and the road to evo tournament season I have come to realize that I kinda prefer to actually watch fighting games then actually play them, due to a variety of reasons, big one being I suck at them, and 10 years of practice hasn't gotten me that far.

People often wonder why SF4 and marvel get more views in streams the MK, well a simple reason is there always a joy to watch, even low level play can be somewhat enjoyable. This isn't the case for MK, at low level play the game looks like janky ass, and even at the highest level there are still luls where the players are jumping around like jackass's fishing for jump in punches or whiffing dialed combos, or playing hop scotch in the corner because of stupid collision detection. I know presentation shouldn't come over gameplay balance or mechanics, but I think it needs to be taken into consideration for the next game, Esports are growing and for a game to be popular it needs to not be janky as fuck looking.

Some simple ideas that are kinda poorly thought out in my sleep deprived state.


Hitbox bullshit.One of the biggest are the hitboxes and the 3d collision detection, not much to say that already hasn't been echoed a million times over, but the stuff that can happen in the corner is obnoxious, it can be a gamble for both players to go anywhere near it because of how easy it is to walk over a downed opponent, or someone flying randomly over you after a hit. Also in some stages they just need to put markers in the background to show where there corners actually are.

Non stop jumping.Jumping is too good in this game, those jump in punches are way too powerful. I would like to see them toned down a bit, make them useful, but not so good that it leads to awkward situations where people are leap frogging over each other fishing for good hits. I think the crossup pressure should still exist in the game, but be character specific, so its not a amazing strat for every single character and jump ins dominate matches.

Hit sparks. I think most of you will hate this idea, but I think hitsparks would be a good edition to the game. Not super flashy hit sparks from marvel or an anime game, but blood red sparks that explode into blood drops on hit, and smaller grey sparks when you hit someone blocking. This would do two things, one, make it easier for others to tell whats going on, and two, help hide awkward collision detection on certain moves. Obviously still have an option for regular blood.

Character damage. An option to turn it off, its ugly as fuck, my god why is there no toggle, there's no damage in story mode, I don't understand.

Finishing him. Big complaint is how long fatalities take and how you can't turn them off with out kombat kodes. I think it would be a neat idea if by default they were off, but on the last round when you kill your opponent there is some slow motion of them falling down(kinda like every other fighting game) and during this time if you press all 4 attack buttons it goes into the finish him stance, this way you can ignore it in most matches, but in awesome matches where you really hate someone you can still have the option to do it, which you wouldn't if it was just a straight toggle. Also bring back mercy, that was cool.

Comeback potential. Coming back in this game is hard as fuck, any little bit of damage will kill you, you can not defend yourself because of the chip on normals.
Now personally I like chip on normals, its an interesting mechanic, but I would like some way to defend against it, for a cost. There are honestly a lot of ways to go about doing it, from having a barrier gauge like BB, or just frame blocks, but a very simple way to do it would be a special block state, holding back well blocking, doing so will prevent you from taking chip, BUT instead you will take the damage as meter drain. Allows a player to keep himself alive for a bit longer, but still promotes super aggressive play. Also have the block state have a special animation, like sub-zero freezes his arms, ermac makes a glowing bubble around himself, scorpion blocks with his swords, stuff like that. Everybody loves a good comeback, there nice and hype, and almost impossible in this game.

Dial a combos, hit confirms, and doing 3 hit combos to the air. One thing I am still not sure of is the weird way MK does its dialed combos, I don't mean the strings, I like those and they should stay, I mean how you actually dial in your entire combo before it actually hits, I know it can create a nice risk reward mechanic, but honestly I just don't like it, its not fun to do, and it also leads to lots of janky moments where people are attacking nothing and are stuck in animations, it looks stupid as fuck. This is something I don't see them ever changing, but I would like someone from NRS to explain why they go this route. I would just like normal hit confirms and having to do your attacks on reaction.

Sound design. This game basically has no music, its there but its low as hell, and there is no announcer during the fight. It makes the game feel kinda bland really. Its one of my biggest pet peeves with the game, going from SF or marvel to this, its almost jarring. Game needs quan chi or shao khan to announcing whats happening in the match, from someone using a breaker, to a sick combo, a throw break, anything. Little things like that just add to the hype and make it overall more enjoyable.

Trading and the double KO. I don't really mind how the trading in this game works, how one person randomly has priority, its mostly fair and it works, but the negative is you can never have a double KO. those are fun and I would like them in, not a huge deal though.

Most of these ideas are poorly thought out and I wouldn't defend them, just the random thoughts of a drunk and tired stream monster who wants to see the game franchise grow as much as possible. It showed well at evo, better then most thought it would, but if it wants to hang with the capcom games, I think its going to have to conform more towards fighting game traditions. Well its unique mechanics can be neat, they have the side effect of making the game kinda unappealing to watch to the majority.

I have a feeling I will regret posting this tomorrow when I am less drunk.
 

Prinz

watch?v=a8PEVV6tt14
You seem like a fan of Japanese style of presentation in fighting games. Me, personally, I don't like at all the loudness and overanimation in MvC, it's too noisy and exploding, hurts the eyes... Street Fighter is also filled with bright colors and such, but is more relaxed. So, i wouldn't like MK to be conformed, as you say. MK is bloody and it can't be filled with flowers and pink sparks. The music I agree, it's a little silent, but I really don't miss it. The gameplay and battlecries take me away.
What I'd like to see in regard of presentation is unique animation for characters for block (I liked the Deadly Alliance version), jump punches and kicks. MK9 is really a good presented game in my opinion, I leave the next MK to the NRS's hands safely.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Jumping is good, but not that good if you watch EU matches or the CD brothers.
 

eskuAdradit0

"Thanks" button abuser.
Non stop jumping - Really?People still think that jumping in this game is "really good"? Given the fact that so many characters have dive kicks, air fireballs, jugglin fireballs or a mad quick uppercut, I wouldn't say people jump too much.
Hit sparks. - Hell no. Unless you mean more blood from uppercuts and that kinda stuff. "Bloody kombat" mode much. Just like UMK3.
Finishing him - No.
Dial a combos, hit confirms, and doing 3 hit combos to the air - I actually like it that way. It's a high risk, high reward that helps players who are new to fighting games learn to play, and on higher level fights, it's still a good addition imo.
Comeback potential - It's not THAT hard... sometimes the whole fight can be turn upside down. Happens rarely, but that's what makes it special.
 

jbthrash

Nut Breaker
I agree with a lot of the suggestions. However, trading hits should be in by far. Also I kinda like the dialed feel. I just hope it doens't do that weird bullshit where it interprets a combo as something else. For example when I do Johnnys 2,1, fb. Sometimes it just goes 2, nut punch. That's because my motion of the dial is so fast sometimes that is thinks I meant nut punch instead of 1, and then fb.
 

Saint

Kombatant
Let me break it down to you, very simple. Go play SF and Marvel.

No, no, no, no, no... and no.

Almost everything you mentioned is what makes MK what it is.

Jumps are only powerful if they are not countered, if you get AA'd from a seasoned player you'll think twice about jumping and how powerful it is.

While there are some technical issues, I disagree with most of the things you said.
 

Quantus

Rain for MK12 Kombat Pack 3
Like people said above, it sounds like a lot of these fixes are steps to make it more like street fighter. One of my biggest praises for this game is it's lack of a comeback mechanic.
 

Eternal

Mortal
you have some good ideas but im not into adding hit sparks...Also you say the game is janky looking and Im not saying i dont dissagree with that but dont you think the way characters stop and pause for a sec on hit contact in Street fighter looks janky?
 

Sao87

@thedigitaldojo
I agree with almost everything you've said. The dude is right, as a spectator this game does look very scrubby even at high level play to a majority of people who have fighting game backgrounds in other games.

People act like jumping isn't strong, you're absolutely wrong. THTB said it right for the most part, watch the Euros or the CD brothers if you want to see what an anti air game looks like. The problem is that there is an evolution past what they are doing which they simply haven't implemented into their meta game yet. And that is jump kicks to whatever air cancels/throws you have (if you have one) or jump kicks in general. Opponents HAVE to respect the jump kick which conditions the opponent to be more cautious about AA risks in general.

You are spot on with the dialed in combos creating long whiff animations. If anything they need to make the windows between when you can string combos together slightly bigger so you don't have to press everything together so quickly resulting in a whiffed chain when your opponent jumps over you.
 

Saint

Kombatant
I agree with almost everything you've said. The dude is right, as a spectator this game does look very scrubby even at high level play to a majority of people who have fighting game backgrounds in other games.

People act like jumping isn't strong, you're absolutely wrong. THTB said it right for the most part, watch the Euros or the CD brothers if you want to see what an anti air game looks like. The problem is that there is an evolution past what they are doing which they simply haven't implemented into their meta game yet. And that is jump kicks to whatever air cancels/throws you have (if you have one) or jump kicks in general. Opponents HAVE to respect the jump kick which conditions the opponent to be more cautious about AA risks in general.

You are spot on with the dialed in combos creating long whiff animations. If anything they need to make the windows between when you can string combos together slightly bigger so you don't have to press everything together so quickly resulting in a whiffed chain when your opponent jumps over you.
Do you mean a spectator that has no clue of the game? Because I don't think we're watching the same game man.

Each and every major that I watch I'm on the edge of my seat, hyped as hell and amazed by the subtle demonstrations of skill.

Not to mention how extremelly hyped the crowds get and scream on top of their lungs.
 

Ssj4Crisis_x

Apprentice
I think i could only agree with the Sound Design as well, I would like some more hyped music for matches or even the ability to play our tracks on the ps3. Maybe more call outs, but not a commentator.... As far as everything else I got slightly different opinions...for example the juggling and jump in punches. I think their well done but I would love to see more variety in these juggles without it having the damage scale effect it so much. This way we're not seeing someone like Liu Kang use b3,12 (x3) to a corner, then f3 into b3,12 over and over. Not saying its a problem but being able to mix in more instead of the b3,12 (x3) maybe link in 3 different strings to make that entire kombo for the same amount damage would make the game more enjoyable to watch as we see people really start to make the character their own.
 

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
Funny you use the word janky. That's exactly what I think when I watch MvC3. How can anyone tell what the fuck is going on? So over caffeinated. I praise MK for granting us the ability to watch it without having a seizure.

I will give you the hitbox issues and the sound though. Both need serious work.
 

JacopeX

Playing: Injustice, Persona, Blazblue, and MK
If they are gonna get an announcer for the next game, bring back the MK4 announcer!!!!

"WELL DONE!"

"AH HA!"

"EXCELLENT..."

"SUPERB!"

"MUAHAHAHAHAHA"

"TOASTY!!!"
 

Sao87

@thedigitaldojo
Do you mean a spectator that has no clue of the game? Because I don't think we're watching the same game man.

Each and every major that I watch I'm on the edge of my seat, hyped as hell and amazed by the subtle demonstrations of skill.

Not to mention how extremelly hyped the crowds get and scream on top of their lungs.
I sort of disagree. The skill gap between a good and a great player is much much smaller in this game than most other fighting games that get publicity. When other "good" fighting game players watch Mortal Kombat they are turned off because what is considered scrubby play in other games works very well in this game.
 

Durango

Enhancer
Some people complain about the character models being ugly. I don't think they're bad, but I think it's more some of the backgrounds which are rather dreary. One thing I like about Japanese-made fighters like MvC3 and Soul Calibur IV is their aesthetic design; they opt to have visuals that flourish with bright colors. While I'm used to MK being gritty, it appears to be a slight turn-off when you look at how nice the other games look in comparison. It's realistic, but maybe too much.

I'm not asking for it to go comic-book style where everything's cel-shaded, but I don't want this to turn into Gears of War or Call of Duty either.
 

OutworldKeith

Champion
I thought Ed Boon mentioned that they were going for a more gritty/darker look and feel to MK9 when it was still in development because many of the hardcore MK fans felt that it was censored in MKvsDCU

Also I dont think bright colors would fit the style of MK because this is the most murderous and bloody fighting game
 

Durango

Enhancer
The only things that were censored in that game were the Fatalities. Killer Instinct on SNES did a better job than they did. They can keep brighter graphics and still have blood. And besides, the character models in MKvDC were UGLY AS HELL.
 

OutworldKeith

Champion
MK9 models are pretty cool

at least they dont all look like a prime Arnold Schwarzenegger lol

I think the gritty gears of war style is cool and its different but I care more about the gameplay opposed to the graphics
 

Verstande

Kombatant
Before people even think about brighter graphics we still need the old stages, such as my personal favorite, the Portal.

I'm pretty sure with todays graphics that stage would be somewhat taunting.