Strategy Nightwing General Discussion (1.06 and on)

[Sajam]

Ugh, all you guys the are too far.

I'll be at SCR, NCR, CEO, and evo.

 

[macro]

Nightwing bros i'm back and getting back into injustice again i was just taking a break from the fgc for a bit
so what are we up to?

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

May I vent about Superman, or is it too late to do that since it's been discussed before last year?

 

[Jeremy KO]

May I vent about Superman, or is it too late to do that since it's been discussed before last year?

Much like Green Lantern, this matchup is all about pure patience.

 

[Sajam]

May I vent about Superman, or is it too late to do that since it's been discussed before last year?

I'm not gonna say I told you so, because I understand your struggle. That MU is frustrating but doable over time.

Much like Green Lantern, this matchup is all about pure patience.

GL zoning is infinitely easier to deal with compared to Supes for NW though. The GL matchup is way easier to navigate and understand the Supes one.

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

Much like Green Lantern, this matchup is all about pure patience.

pure patience....well can you demonstrate that on video for me then man?

I'm not talking about your average Superman either.

The only thing I got was from Sajam who broke it down for me, but it seems like a 200 mile journey I don't know why I feel so hopeless over this MU. I'm normally not like this.

 

[AssassiN]

Also depends what kind of Superman you are facing.
You got your zoning Supermen and Supermen who like to stay in your face. Which one do you have the most trouble with?

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

Also depends what kind of Superman you are facing.
You got your zoning Supermen and Supermen who like to stay in your face. Which one do you have the most trouble with?

Rush down Superman, the whole zoning thing doesn't bother me because Sajam showed how NW can avoid all that madness, Superman still beats NW from Full Screen, but I find myself struggling in those plus blockstrings and those cross up overheads, bomb dive, etc

 

[Sajam]

Rush down Superman, the whole zoning thing doesn't bother me because Sajam showed how NW can avoid all that madness, Superman still beats NW from Full Screen, but I find myself struggling in those plus blockstrings and those cross up overheads, bomb dive, etc

The biggest thing is to put yourself at a range where doing air lasers becomes super risky without a mb, but f23 isn't in range yet.

From that distance you can deal with dash ins with a preemptive b2 or a d12 on reaction to the dash. Supes jumping around can be a problem, but you just have to block your way out to deal with it. Your only option against his air mobility is unfortunately trying to air to air him usually.

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

The biggest thing is to put yourself at a range where doing air lasers becomes super risky without a mb, but f23 isn't in range yet.

From that distance you can deal with dash ins with a preemptive b2 or a d12 on reaction to the dash. Supes jumping around can be a problem, but you just have to block your way out to deal with it. Your only option against his air mobility is unfortunately trying to air to air him usually.

That's definitely the area I want to be at. I notice the Superman that was playing me wasn't even trying to be in that zone so he was playing around it and I was finding myself playing the chase game instead of being a little more patient and finding my spots.

Must work on those reactions to those air attacks, especially the whole reset game. It would be easier if I actually picked up Superman and understood his dirty stuff like his resets or OTGs or whatever the hell hes doing in the rapage.

You were right man, whats funny is that the Superman that I played told me this was a 5-5 MU, and I'm dude, you just 10-3 me.

 

[Jeremy KO]

I'm not gonna say I told you so, because I understand your struggle. That MU is frustrating but doable over time.

GL zoning is infinitely easier to deal with compared to Supes for NW though. The GL matchup is way easier to navigate and understand the Supes one.

Well yeah, but fighting either of them still takes a similar strategy.

 

[Dja_Homies]

How do you guys deal with a smart zod with smart zoning and good trait usage/ mixups?

 

[Chongo]

How do you guys deal with a smart zod with smart zoning and good trait usage/ mixups?

For 213/21 low laser mixups, block high and react to the laser. Online it's a 50/50 though.

For trait mixups like f2d4, I usually block the low then just stand block. For mixups like 11d2/11d4 I actually don't know if you can fuzzy them or if you have to hold dat. Someone who has Zod downloaded and is actually smart check.

For zoning, he can delay the mb part of the pistol for a long time to check greedy dashes. For Zod Balls and lasers, you can try to use ground spark/blast to try and interrupt him but you aren't going to zone him out.

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

How do you guys deal with a smart zod with smart zoning and good trait usage/ mixups?

Cut Zod down with ground sparks(just interupt his zoning flow and make him uncomfortable)
If he jumps up 7 out of 10 times hes going for MB Balloons, normally I dash in two before he lets the balloons out. (I dont know if this is the best strategy but it gets me closer to Zod)
The main problem is going to be Zod's low lasers. They're plus and you have to respect. Zod will have options after MB Low Lasers so its the matter of fighting your way out of that.

It's definitely one of those match ups that you will feel better within time. A great Zod can be scary from what I seen, I think M2Dave said it was a 5-5 match up but I feel like it's 6-4 Im missing something.

Get an avatar you noop. lol, welcome to the forum bro.

 

[Chongo]

Also knocking down Zod is a wonderful thing and this gif plays in my head when I manage to do so.

 

[Dja_Homies]

Cut Zod down with ground sparks(just interupt his zoning flow and make him uncomfortable)
If he jumps up 7 out of 10 times hes going for MB Balloons, normally I dash in two before he lets the balloons out. (I dont know if this is the best strategy but it gets me closer to Zod)
The main problem is going to be Zod's low lasers. They're plus and you have to respect. Zod will have options after MB Low Lasers so its the matter of fighting your way out of that.

It's definitely one of those match ups that you will feel better within time. A great Zod can be scary from what I seen, I think M2Dave said it was a 5-5 match up but I feel like it's 6-4 Im missing something.

Get an avatar you noop. lol, welcome to the forum bro.

Lol I do ground spark ground blast is a no to me even though it can aa him if hes low enough. I guess I gotta be mote patient I'll steal a avatar soon I mean wut

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

How do you guys deal with a smart zod with smart zoning and good trait usage/ mixups?

It's 4-6 or 3-7... Since pig is the best zod and I play his all the time I'll break it down.

@TheBoyBlunder had it right with ground sparks. They lower his hitbox under all zods zoning and build tons of meter. F21 close laser can be jumped backward OR interrupted with standing 1 for a 113 combo. Medium laser can be jumped forward. If zod does f213, you can't get out. All his strings have different ways to get out. And you really have to grind t to recognize them. His mixups from far and close are the same wY...practice not getting hit.

If zod dashes in on trait, I'll d3 him to create space and use up time. D3 goes under swipes and grab if done well.(escrima only).

On zods wake up I like jump over him and wing ding mb his zod charge and his palm strike...it's an option select that is always in NW favor...on block our safe. It's a very hard MU. Watch out for parry and hope you can trap him in the corner with staff

 

[GGA Saucy Jack]

Ok im late to this party. But I want to address some things you guys discussed a couple pages ago because it was evident that a lot of people were not comprehending what Fly was saying.

The ability to "stuff wakeups" is not a "property" certain moves have. The timing may be easier or harder depending on the move, but there are no magical "wakeup stuffing property fairies" who come around and deem which move can stuff wakeups, and which cant.

Not every wakeup move is fully invincible. In fact, some characters dont have a single invincible wakeup. Raven, zod, aquaman, catwoman (without trait) off the top of my head.

How it works:

NOTE: THESE FRAME DATA NUMBERS ARE GUESTIMATES, NOT SET IN STONE FACTS, THEY ARE BEING USED TO ILLUSTRATE THE POINT

Let us sat Catwomans catdash is 16 frames startup. Let us pretend it only has 8 frames of invincibility.

This means any move you do, that hits catwoman from frames 9-15 will "stuff" the wakeup. It does not matter which move you do. With practice, and no im not exaggerating, you can do this every time.

Watch 16 bit vs glass sword at Frosty. Glass sword Can Not Wake Up because 16 bit perfected the timing of stuffing ravens wake ups.

I hope this makes sense. It is not about the frame data of your attack. Its about the timing. If your move is 1 frame or 100 frames, if you can time it to land in the window in between invulnerable, and active, you will stuff the wakeup.

 

[gpmoney]

I believe the term we are looking for is 'Meaty'

 

[gpmoney]

Ok, @macro I need you and @Dirtylova to play eachother on xbl in a friendly nightwing miror. Macro the way dirty lova and you play are both counters to eachother. You both are good and have potential but after playing lova for a bunch I played macro later andI relized your playstyles will help you see mistakes. This is a lil test @Dirtylova macro is my protege and your nw playstyle is what he needs. Same goes for you macro. Think you guys can play soon and let me know how it goes? Not competitive whise but learning wise. No set score just play some friendlys till one of you gets bored or sick of 133600000 games

 

[Dirtylova]

Im down..

Me and macro have met in ranked before, our match was rudely interrupted by a desync, idk what happened. I honestly don't know when ill be back on though, the last time i was on I played you and Filipin0man, i think that was last week sometime haa!



ps. What i meant by this, "I honestly don't know when ill be back on". Just means ill be on this weekend sometime.

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

Anyone here ever though about using NW's J3 in staff kinda like Aquaman's J3 for that cross up reset? Yesterday I spazzed out and did delayed jump 3 into staff spin. I never tried it in training so I'm asking if anyone here has; I believe J3 has interesting properties especially if you delay it but a totally different hitbox and jumparch than Aqua's J3 so Im not sure if it'll work. Even though NW's short hop may be embarrassing, I'm trying to find a purpose for it.

 

[macro]

Anyone here ever though about using NW's J3 in staff kinda like Aquaman's J3 for that cross up reset? Yesterday I spazzed out and did delayed jump 3 into staff spin. I never tried it in training so I'm asking if anyone here has; I believe J3 has interesting properties especially if you delay it but a totally different hitbox and jumparch than Aqua's J3 so Im not sure if it'll work. Even though NW's short hop may be embarrassing, I'm trying to find a purpose for it.

I was trying to do something with JF3 so i could be on the wall side so i could place a bomb for a reset.
But it's not consistent and i feel that there is better options.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Anyone here ever though about using NW's J3 in staff kinda like Aquaman's J3 for that cross up reset? Yesterday I spazzed out and did delayed jump 3 into staff spin. I never tried it in training so I'm asking if anyone here has; I believe J3 has interesting properties especially if you delay it but a totally different hitbox and jumparch than Aqua's J3 so Im not sure if it'll work. Even though NW's short hop may be embarrassing, I'm trying to find a purpose for it.

After mb staff spin instant j3 is guaranteed and + frames???this means d1 is free. If they jump the d1 will catch them and you can staff spin again for the hard knockdown. Once they respect instant j3, you can delay it for a staff spin mb loop mid screen.

It's not something you can do over and over unless you have put the fear of god in them but it can work a few times In a match.

I don't have any ambiguous crossups with it though.

 

[Qwark28]

Give me all your XBL NWs. I need to see if any of you can prove to me this character doesn't lose to Joker.