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Match-up Discussion KH Star Charger's Catwoman MU Chart

SonicBoomBrad

Best Doomsday in the world
"Those tools" syndrome...
I was going to pick her up and see for myself but I don't really have a reason to unfortunately. Maybe once people actually find the last couple of things that will make Doomsday not viable I will. If I did play the character, however, I would go into training mode and compile a list of every string she can b3 out of and use that against characters accordingly. I'd kill for "those tools".

Again, not saying I know anything about this character, because I don't. I'm basically talking out of my ass. But I really think people counter characters like her and lobo out for no reason.
 
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Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
I've only played Dave online, and this was a long time ago. And I've played Pig in some sets at NEC.

Here's my evaluation of the match-up. And forgive me if its vague, the match-up is weird...

If Zod beats Catwoman, its only because of the stage selection due to unavoidable interactables, otherwise he cant truly just zone Catwoman. At the very least, she doesn't beat him, but may go even with him due to great trait management on the Zod players hands which makes it frustrating.

Also, I will add this for fun: Dave gets caught by naked catdashes because he backdashes way too much... lol
You bring up a great point maybe accidentally

People wanna talk about how broke Zod's backdash is, idk about that. It has one of the longest recoveries in the game people just aren't taking adv fully yet

Example: MMH sees ZOD backdash , trait up 22 ...40%combo
 

Ra Helios

Omnipotent God-like Selina Kyle Player
Did I hurt your feelings by not tagging you in something? I honestly don't post in forums other than NRF very often... You seem upset.

If just about every high level playing CW said to me "Ecodus it's a 5-5 MU" I'd probably re evaluate my stance, I think most people would. It has nothing to do with you. Your reason for a 5-5 MU was a video of you and M2dave playing a set online... You were whiffing b3s and M2dave would for some reason shoot over your head and allow you to do a full punish. It's hardly the concrete evidence needed to site MU numbers.

Looks like I am struggling against Zod because of lack of MU experience.

5-5 Zod vs CW
I'm far from being upset. I was stating my opinion. It seems more people would like to here what they say beside me. I don't care to be honest. I didn't have the Mu experience either but from zoners and knowing how to adapt in the mu. It was fine. Catwoman b3 is amazing especially when you can read a mid or a high
 

Crathen

Death is my business
You bring up a great point maybe accidentally

People wanna talk about how broke Zod's backdash is, idk about that. It has one of the longest recoveries in the game people just aren't taking adv fully yet

Example: MMH sees ZOD backdash , trait up 22 ...40%combo
I've actually did a video about backdashes and imo Zods backdash isn't top 5 ( more like 6-8t) , his backdash hasn't got long invicibility frames / fast animation traveling time.

There are better ways to stuff backdashes than just making reads with forward dashes , here's the vid

 

Krayzie

Co-founder
Founder
You bring up a great point maybe accidentally

People wanna talk about how broke Zod's backdash is, idk about that. It has one of the longest recoveries in the game people just aren't taking adv fully yet

Example: MMH sees ZOD backdash , trait up 22 ...40%combo
When I played Dave online, I usually walked up and got near him enough for him to be out of his comfort zone, and eventually would catch a backdash.

If you ask me, Supermans backdash is the one that's ridiculous.
 

astronout

see you at the top.
Oh, and how is Batman considered a 5-5? someone explain this to me please...
(MU exp from Perfect Legend, Forever King, Showtime)

I believe batman and aquaman (and possibly Lex) are her worst matchups (7-3)
 
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Ra Helios

Omnipotent God-like Selina Kyle Player
Oh, and how is Batman considered a 5-5? someone explain this to me please...
(MU exp from Perfect Legend and Showtime)

I believe batman and aquaman (and possibly Lex) are her worst matchups (7-3)
No. It is a 5-5 match up catwoman knock down and guessing game up close will blow up a batman player and even in the corner. Batman zoning tools is not good enough to zone her out. So the only thing batman can really do is depend on his trait to change the game around. Batman do has a lot of frame traps and set ups but playing the best batman players online like C88 Godsmack, the number 1 batman on the leaderboards, and forever king it is a 5-5 match up. I don't fall for the low low trait cross up j2 etc. Majority of the time I poke the set up. Catwoman vs batman Mu is not a bad match up. To be honest it is a fun match up like superman
 

astronout

see you at the top.
No. It is a 5-5 match up catwoman knock down and guessing game up close will blow up a batman player and even in the corner. Batman zoning tools is not good enough to zone her out.
Superman is a definite 5-5 MU for catwoman (MU exp KDZ) so we agree there. Though I'm not sure I will ever agree on batman also being a 5-5 MU. I've also played the best Batmen out there (Forever King, Perfect Legend) and it just seems that catwoman has to work infinitely harder in the matchup. No aerial defence against batman's J2, horrendous movement, combined with easily punishable wake up attacks leaves catwoman at a huge disadvantage. Knocking down batman becomes the hardest task asked of any catwoman player. Batarangs combined with bats is super effective at keeping catwoman out. Random unsafe MB catdashes simply isn't a viable option on getting in. and even when he is knocked down, it is no guarantee that her oki game will always lead to damage/pressure.
 

Ra Helios

Omnipotent God-like Selina Kyle Player
Superman is a definite 5-5 MU for catwoman (MU exp KDZ) so we agree there. Though I'm not sure I will ever agree on batman also being a 5-5 MU. I've also played the best Batmen out there (Forever King, Perfect Legend) and it just seems that catwoman has to work infinitely harder in the matchup. No aerial defence against batman's J2, horrendous movement, combined with easily punishable wake up attacks leaves catwoman at a huge disadvantage. Knocking down batman becomes the hardest task asked of any catwoman player. Batarangs combined with bats is super effective at keeping catwoman out. Random unsafe MB catdashes simply isn't a viable option on getting in. and even when he is knocked down, it is no guarantee that her oki game will always lead to damage/pressure.
Well from my experience and leveling up the only problem I have with batman is really his trait. Catwoman can do 45 percent reset hard knock down plus batman only have one good wake up which no good batman players barely even use it and if they do it can possibly be read if you keep on doing the same reset tricking your opponent to do the slide which you can block and punish or jump back and punish. What is oki?

She can easily get high damage by using 1 meter and if batman guess wrong 1 time if catwoman do a reset hard knock down then that is almost his full white bar gone. Batman fast mobility speed don't really bother my play style. I usually get in by j2 or dashing. Or a unsuspected b3 so I can be safe. MB catdash I try to read what he is trying to do.

Knocking down batman is the hardest task? Not to me. The only good wake up he has is the slide and I be damn if people use the cap wake up
 

chemist4hire

I Got Guiled
@Ra Helios

Are you playing these batman players offline or online? Cause I sometimes I feel like I can handle batman easier online. From where do you J2 in on batman? How do you blow up his back dash? How do you deal with his b3 bats j2 set ups? These are all things I struggle with and would like advice one.
 

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
This MU chart is bizarre. What's the point of posting a mu chart with so many decimals and fence sitting numbers? Slight advantage means 6-4. That's the point lol. There's so many 5-5 and 5.5 here this looks like the MU chart of a top 3 character. Is that what you're saying? I mean if that's what you're saying then cool, that's a hell of a bold prediction...

FWIW Iwould only post mu numbers on mu I play at gga but I strongly disagree with some of these like Scorpion.
 

chemist4hire

I Got Guiled
This MU chart is bizarre. What's the point of posting a mu chart with so many decimals and fence sitting numbers? Slight advantage means 6-4. That's the point lol. There's so many 5-5 and 5.5 here this looks like the MU chart of a top 3 character. Is that what you're saying? I mean if that's what you're saying then cool, that's a hell of a bold prediction...

FWIW Iwould only post mu numbers on mu I play at gga but I strongly disagree with some of these like Scorpion.
I would like to see your numbers. Especially for the Bane, Lex and Shazaam match ups.
 
This MU chart is bizarre. What's the point of posting a mu chart with so many decimals and fence sitting numbers? Slight advantage means 6-4. That's the point lol. There's so many 5-5 and 5.5 here this looks like the MU chart of a top 3 character. Is that what you're saying? I mean if that's what you're saying then cool, that's a hell of a bold prediction...

FWIW Iwould only post mu numbers on mu I play at gga but I strongly disagree with some of these like Scorpion.
Can people stop nitpicking. Like I said in my original paragraph (that most people obviously neglected to read I noticed), this is just my take on things from experience. It's in no way supposed to be some official deal and should be taken with a gran of salt at minimum. Not to seem like I'm going off on anyone but damn this community is over-sensitive to too much nowadays.
 

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
I would like to see your numbers. Especially for the Bane, Lex and Shazaam match ups.


I think she loses to Bane and Lex but beats Shazam. Bane is a worse MU than Lex.

I know other Catwomen disagree but from playing PPJ and Max I'd rather deal with Lex. Bane is a nightmare in footsies with his fast and long range dashes, d+1, super underrated d+2 and armor. Then when you do make the correct read or punish a mistake because of venom your combos do less and on the hard knockdown you have to deal with his excellent wakeup game. Don't even get me started on how rough it is when he knocks her down. Lex's trait is a pain in the ass but at least when she gets her game going he's in trouble.
 
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Ra Helios

Omnipotent God-like Selina Kyle Player
@Ra Helios

Are you playing these batman players offline or online? Cause I sometimes I feel like I can handle batman easier online. From where do you J2 in on batman? How do you blow up his back dash? How do you deal with his b3 bats j2 set ups? These are all things I struggle with and would like advice one.
@Skeezer12
 

Ra Helios

Omnipotent God-like Selina Kyle Player
@Ra Helios

Are you playing these batman players offline or online? Cause I sometimes I feel like I can handle batman easier online. From where do you J2 in on batman? How do you blow up his back dash? How do you deal with his b3 bats j2 set ups? These are all things I struggle with and would like advice one.
Online or offline really doesn't matter for me. Players use it as a excuse for getting there butt handed to them online even though the lag isn't that serious.

I wish I had a video to show how I deal with batman characters but I don't. The only video I have right now Is Zod so people can use that for reference on how to play against him and what mistakes I did so they won't have to deal with it when they are playing against a zod player.

What I usually do is block all his set ups and his shenanigans. Especially when he does a low low trait low or j2 cross up. I mostly poke when he does his low,low, trait and punish it. You have to read very well in order to do it.

From the match up experience I played against king and others great batman players I usually jump2 when I can do a 50/50mix up. When you put batman in the corner or close to the corner you can do a low or a overhead. It doesn't really matter. As long as it mix up. 112,bf1,j1,112whip which is a hard knock down. What you can do is cross up j1 or a 50/50 mix up or dash b2 cross up and put him in the corner with the ender of 1f2.

Batman b3 setups I usually block because I expect he will do some type of frame trap. Even if he doesn't do it. I will still block. From the experience that c88 Godsmack gave me.

Catwoman backdash is really good. It can actually dodge some of batmans moves like the b3.


His bats. Usually batman characters start the game with three bats but during the match they always end up with 1 or 2 From experience I have with king and others I mention. I try to block.

When you hard knock down batman you can j1 cross up or a 50/50mix up. So most likely batman character will have to guess. Don't be so obvious because they will wake up and that is the best time to punish a batman character. So 2 reset and the next one expect a wake up so you can punish it

This is what I do. Also batman zoning. Is easy to get close to him even when he throw batarangs and mb it which is good because it burn meter. Don't worry about your health when you block his batarangs because once you touch batman he is in a guessing game of his life plus catwoman do big damage so. Win win situation for you

Skeezer12 will also help you out on how to deal with him
 

Ra Helios

Omnipotent God-like Selina Kyle Player
It's 5-5 or slight advantage Catwoman



It doesn't matter you ran to MMH and still haven't won anything
I'm curious why you think catwoman and killer frost is a 5-5 match up slightly catwoman favor. I am not saying that you are wrong or anything. I am just curious why you think it is a 5-5 matchup in favor of catwoman?
 

Relaxedstate

PTH|RM Relaxedstate
I can't afford to go to a tourney. Plus I don't even Drive or have enough money to fly their. I live in Baltimore Maryland. Trying to take a welding class so I can make it in life. After that I will try to go to these tourneys if I can. The only close thing is for me is to join a clan and fight these top players online so I can make a name for myself. I join the Kinetic Clan. One of the best clans out there. I think they are the second best clan. Emperor is number 1 I believe.
Dude we have a pretty established scene here. Baltimore does weeklies at xandu and there are lots of monthlies and regionals both here and in VA. You can hitch a ride to Winter Brawl if you want with us.
 

Relaxedstate

PTH|RM Relaxedstate
Also Catwoman beats Cyborg and loses to batman. Nothing on the fence about either of those two.

Cyborg can't ground or iafb because of cat dash. From close to midscreen he cant iafb either because her B3 causes them to wiff (she gets a free B3 in/or combo). Cyborg also can't jump back to create space because of her crazy whip range. She also can catsah any grapple away attempt. Lets not forget about cat evade sigh... she has a lot of good tools here including decent damage.

I am curios whose Cyborg you have played Starcharger?