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KI Team taking it very slow w/ balance patches, "it's way too early"

VenomX-90

"On your Knees!"
The game only has been out for a couple of months and already they want patches? geez let the game breathe a lil bit. Fuck, smh.
 

trufenix

bye felicia
A game is never finished. It's just as polished as much as possible and playable with it's core intention. Devs know what's wrong and problems that are going to arise most of the time when game's hit retail because they continue working even after ship on issues they know.
As someone who's been gaming for 30 odd years and developing for half as many I can say this policy and practice is shit and the fact that most gamers just accept it now is like 90% of the problem.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
I'm really sad, most of us really do hurt the relationship we built with the NRS company. the more and more, i see my chances of seeing Kia, Jataaka and Sareena flying away.

Injustice is a great game, there almost little to no bulshit with the last patch and most of the cast is viable, i'm pretty sure MK10 or whatever game nrs makes after will be a blast.
 

Briggs8417

Salt Proprietor of TYM
What's that? They want a game to actually develop and evolve before destroying every little thing that's bitched about in the game? Wow...shocker...
 

trufenix

bye felicia
I'm really sad, most of us really do hurt the relationship we built with the NRS company. the more and more, i see my chances of seeing Kia, Jataaka and Sareena flying away.

Injustice is a great game, there almost little to no bulshit with the last patch and most of the cast is viable, i'm pretty sure MK10 or whatever game nrs makes after will be a blast.
Nobody can feel good about their game anymore without tearing down another, and NRS is an easy target because their games are hugely popular but competively pretty shit. Injustice is the first one to accomplish both of those, but its gonna be a while before the stigma is broken.

MK10 or not, this type of shit isn't going anywhere. Just be glad real developers have pretty thick skin.
 

Posthuman

Where's TJ Combo?
Nrs is good at making fun games but they have very little idea of how to make balanced, competitive fighters.
 

A New Angel Is Advent

mutton basher
My only issue w INJ is imagine if what the game was in oct was released in April

Total kreygasm :)

I feel more time was needed but it is what it is and we all should enjoy what we have
That would've been great, but my cynical side thinks the complaining would have been the same. Every scumbag move existing now would be causing the same nerf/buff backlash that happened in version 1.
 

trufenix

bye felicia
Nrs is good at making fun games but they have very little idea of how to make balanced, competitive fighters.
I feel that's a bit of a misnomer. Until very recently they weren't actually trying to make balanced games. Now that they've been trying, their improvement is pretty obvious. From vsDC, to MK9, to Injustice.

It's the FGCs own delusional assumption that just because a fighting game exists, its developers priorities are tournament level balance. I mean, look at the shit Sakurai still gets about his Smash Bros ideas when he has said countless times that balance is not at all his priority, and thats all because two sequels ago he (completely by accident) made a game that was sorta competitive if you literally broke the engine and turned off half its features.
 

Posthuman

Where's TJ Combo?
@trufenix I heard they said the same thing about making a competitive fighter around MKDA!

They have been making fighters for 20yrs for god sake! How many more years do they need to get it right?
 

trufenix

bye felicia
@trufenix I heard they said the same thing about making a competitive fighter around MKDA!
You're confusing "making a competitive game" with "includes features for competitive gamers." You put in pro moves, or alpha counters, or a metering system to give competitive players something to dick around with it doesn't mean you put in the time / money / staff to balance it all out.

They have been making fighters for 20yrs for god sake! How many more years do they need to get it right?
Again, the key is the intent. Sakurai never intended Smash to be competitive, it just wound up that way. Same with MvC2. Meanwhile, tons of games were intended to be competitive, never got there , and I don't mean bloody roar or BIOFREAKS, I mean multiple KoFs, I mean Capcom Fighting Jam, Fighting Vipers, Soul Cali 3, XvSF and lots of other games that were made by tradionally balance minded devs that turned out to be competitive shit shows because the time and the love just wasn't there. Nobody was willing to hold JoJo back another 6 months to make sure infinites and unblockables weren't in there.

And I don't mean to imply there's just a a black/white line, because its a safe assumption no dev wants their game to be totally lopsided / unbalanced. But there's still a huge difference between the late Midway Era NRS that was mostly concerned with minigames, adventure modes, and funny fatalities, and the current Era NRS that flies top players out for weeks and puts them in a balance sweatshop for absolutely no benefit to themselves whatsoever.
 

Rathalos

Play Monster Hunter!
I'll be serious for a post, and then I'll return to my obnoxious NRS fanboy persona. The problem I have isn't balance or fun. The problem I have is presentation, and balance. When they made the original games the presentation was superior, and groundbreaking, in part because they copied a lot of things from SF and other games. The balance isn't the only thing that went downhill during the 3d years. The presentation went to shit too. And, as good as MK9 and INJ are, the presentation (namely, animation, UI, sound) could be a fuckload better.
The sound design is one of my biggest pet peeves with MK9 and Injustice, and it's not just bad compared to the old 2D games, it's also a huge step down compared to those awful 3D ones. The only positive thing I will ever say about MKvsDC, from the very little I actually bothered to play of it, the sound design wasn't completely terrible.

The only thing MK9 did right sound wise was the gibberish, and the sound effects, like clanging against the robots.

I'm hoping that all the love for KI's presentation opens up Boons eyes, and he starts taking that shit more seriously.
I miss MK having a proper announcer.
 

trufenix

bye felicia
The balance isn't the only thing that went downhill during the 3d years. The presentation went to shit too. And, as good as MK9 and INJ are as entertainment, the presentation (namely, animation, UI, sound) could be a fuckload better, and was exceptional in the old Titles.
If by "old titles" you mean MK2 then nobody would argue. MK2 had a presentation and immersion level that is still unmatched by most games. It took itself completely serious and swung for the fucking fences. Beyond that tho, you can't find too many people that won't say MK4, the entire mk3 family, and even MK1 were varying degree shit shows. Loud and full of shock value, maybe, but full of copy and paste, cornball ideas, and derivative designs. Like seriously, take a step back and look at the costume design for non-ninjas in mk3.

Regardless, you're forgetting the principle difference between the MK1-3(almost 4) era, and DA-vDCs era. Those first games were made on dedicated hardware and backed by the king of american arcades. They had game design carte blanche and all the resources of Midway at their disposal. DA and on were forced to work multi-plat and were less about attention getting and more about supporting Midway's financial hemmorhages. That meant smaller budgets, tighter windows, less design risks, and more pandering themes. And that's ignoring the loss of Tobias along the way.

I'm hoping that all the love for KI's presentation opens up Boons eyes, and he starts taking that shit more seriously. I miss MK having a proper announcer.
Like the story carrying on without Tobias, I feel the sound has mostly suffered from the increasingly reduced role of Forden. De was really the first game where it became apparent he wasn't the only cook in the audio kitchen anymore, and there's next to none of his traditional style left at this point. That said, the goal of Injustice's development was to stand as far away from MK as it could, so if you really thought Superman and Batman were gonna be slugging it out to Techno Gothic beats, you were setting yourself up for disappointment.

There was actually an interesting article (I think on gamasutra) from Harada about a similar issue he's faced with the Tekken franchise. He continually gets raked over the coals for the way the sound design has "evolved" in Tekken games and he basically said "staff changes, voice changes, and tech changes. Just because you liked how it was, doesn't mean they won't want or have to change it later on. So, vote with your wallet." And since TTT2 and Injustice both proved to be sales hits, clearly not too many people minded.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
If by "old titles" you mean MK2 then nobody would argue. MK2 had a presentation and immersion level that is still unmatched by most games. It took itself completely serious and swung for the fucking fences. Beyond that tho, you can't find too many people that won't say MK4, the entire mk3 family, and even MK1 were varying degree shit shows. Loud and full of shock value, maybe, but full of copy and paste, cornball ideas, and derivative designs. Like seriously, take a step back and look at the costume design for non-ninjas in mk3.

Regardless, you're forgetting the principle difference between the MK1-3(almost 4) era, and DA-vDCs era. Those first games were made on dedicated hardware and backed by the king of american arcades. They had game design carte blanche and all the resources of Midway at their disposal. DA and on were forced to work multi-plat and were less about attention getting and more about supporting Midway's financial hemmorhages. That meant smaller budgets, tighter windows, less design risks, and more pandering themes. And that's ignoring the loss of Tobias along the way.



Like the story carrying on without Tobias, I feel the sound has mostly suffered from the increasingly reduced role of Forden. De was really the first game where it became apparent he wasn't the only cook in the audio kitchen anymore, and there's next to none of his traditional style left at this point. That said, the goal of Injustice's development was to stand as far away from MK as it could, so if you really thought Superman and Batman were gonna be slugging it out to Techno Gothic beats, you were setting yourself up for disappointment.

There was actually an interesting article (I think on gamasutra) from Harada about a similar issue he's faced with the Tekken franchise. He continually gets raked over the coals for the way the sound design has "evolved" in Tekken games and he basically said "staff changes, voice changes, and tech changes. Just because you liked how it was, doesn't mean they won't want or have to change it later on. So, vote with your wallet." And since TTT2 and Injustice both proved to be sales hits, clearly not too many people minded.
this is true indeed.