EVO 2011 MK STREAM

[Asodimazze]

pro players don't spam or monkey rush stuff
because the pro player from the other side of the screen would rape him

pro player have a reason for each input plus they REACT fast and not prevent and fall for afterwards baits

Are you trying to say that REO, PL and the other guys are not pro players because sometimes they use a random special or don't punish something?

 

[digitaldemize]

gosh



here it is
there's no randomness in strategies, only deception

a random midscreen spin (and really, after so many posts i'm tired of saying it) is a huge mistake because it's punishable and it should be right there!it's not strategic randomness it's BS!

and all those teleports punished by spin on block is called autopilot not strategy


i may be a nobody but i'm sure that this community need to grow a lot more before turning into serious shit

It's a huge mistake but it also shows you will do something random. So now your opponent needs to think that you just might do it. By nature any random action is "a mistake" because it's highly punishable. You're trading doing something random and stupid for what sort of mental effect it will have on people.

Now at times this works to devasting effects (see how people react to say Daigo or Valle in games where they are known for just DP'ing for the hell of it) and at other times it bites you in the ass.

 

[Klaudikus]

gosh

<snip>

i may be a nobody but i'm sure that this community need to grow a lot more before turning into serious shit

It's a hard sale, son. Even mentioning community in your post is the single most hypocritical thing I've read on the forums so far.

You've a decent analysis, but there's no need to demean the players or their performances. Under that kind of pressure, everyone cracks - everyone.


On a more positive note, my favourite players so far have been Jop with Cage and Denzell with SubZero.

Congrats to those who participated for some great entertainment. I'm surprised there weren't any Cyrax players...

 

[shura30]

Are you trying to say that REO, PL and the other guys are not pro players because sometimes they use a random special or don't punish something?

there are 2 possible outcome to this:

i answer yes, they're just above average level due to better knowledge of the game BUT lack of solid fighting games basics and this thread become the next thing closest to hell
or i say no, they won a tournament were the average level was worse than online ranked so they're good if compared to others

pick whatever you want

and no, it's not sometime it's almost never punish something vids are there, go watch them again and again

there's one another i prefer

forget names, forget that those two were the chess mind reading reo or the combo maker perfectlegend
try to look at evo's finals in perspective without names in mind
just watch the replay as mileena vs kunglao

now, take a deep breath and tell me those are pro-top players
i'll wait


oh and by any chance i don't want to tune down MK hype or the fact that it made a great impression to most at evo
i'm just looking at things as they are

It's a hard sale, son. Even mentioning community in your post is the single most hypocritical thing I've read on the forums so far.

i've mentioned community because not a single reader went past bandwagon discussion
there was just one guy i traded quotes before
and you're not doing different

if someone's idol get bashed like i am doing
i expect nothing more that continuos blind worship even without evidence (bandwagoning, again)
and it's what i'm getting

when i'll see a good, rational, analysis to counter my bashing well, i'll STFU

 

[xenogorgeous]

Well, how many matches Reo and Perfect Legend , played in finals, counting both sets ? 7 ?

Kinda, Reo won the first set, 3-1, reseting ...
And next, PL won 3-0, winning Evo ?

So, 4-3 in the end for PL ? On total 7 matches ?

If so, is not that bad for Reo, placing 2nd with a character (Mileena) that , despite being my favourite, I recognize that KL , while being a superior character, and at the same time being played by a very good player, deserved win this Evo.

PL is a hell of player, seems to be very hard to play against him, and even harder still be able to manage to win 6 matches in a row against him. Reo did well, and PL showed a lot of recovery talent when playing under pressure.

 

[Badboy Takuma]

im still sad REO loose finals
why he dont pick cage??

 

[xenogorgeous]

im still sad REO loose finals
why he dont pick cage??

I don't know, maybe he was concerned if people could think he was desperate and cannot win using other character he plays well ?

I did not know he can play Cyrax at high level, I know he plays Cage pretty well, he showed a solid good Reptile before against Chris G in ECT3, I watched him playing recently with Skarlet, and I think, if not wrong, that he can play a good Quan Chi ....... well, Reo is a very good player, I think he can do well with any character in this game, if he trains enough time with a new character he decides to test.

 

[Klaudikus]

there are 2 possible outcome to this:

oh and by any chance i don't want to tune down MK hype or the fact that it made a great impression to most at evo
i'm just looking at things as they are

i've mentioned community because not a single reader went past bandwagon discussion
there was just one guy i traded quotes before
and you're not doing different

if someone's idol get bashed like i am doing
i expect nothing more that continuos blind worship even without evidence (bandwagoning, again)
and it's what i'm getting

when i'll see a good, rational, analysis to counter my bashing well, i'll STFU

Everyone's entitled to their opinion. I'm also not suggesting you STFU. And could you define Bandwagon discussion? Congratulating players is bandwagon discussion? By that token "bashing" them would be as well?

I think most people here enjoy the game and would most certainly like to get better at it - so its only natural they look up to these players. To dismiss their game-play mistakes isn't jumping on the bandwagon; I'd like to think it's simply some more understanding regarding the pressure and situation.

I'm not a pro player so I can't even chirp on their performance, I really think they played outstanding. And it seems like you really think they should have played better given the importance of the event.

It doesn't really matter what we all think because in the end, THEY collected big fat cheques...

I'll throw this out: If you feel so strongly that it was undeserved, I hope to be watching you on stream next EVO. I'll record myself dancing a jig and post it on TYM if you win. Heck I'll dance if you make it top 8.

 

[Mt. Mutombo]

Im winning next evo assholes:youcantseeme::fuckyou:

 

[shura30]

to dismiss their game-play mistakes

i've never said that they suck but i expected more from tops (with a good amount of posts explaining situations awaiting reply)

I really think they played outstanding. And it seems like you really think they should have played better given the importance of the event.

true
but 'outstanding' in mk community right now is just above average
if you seek ability in this game and you're presented with a grand final of one of the most important events worldwide with so many mistakes its too easy to claim pressure or strange pad issue (referred to michaelangelo's statement)

It doesn't really matter what we all think because in the end, THEY collected big fat cheques...

hell yeah, i sometime feel stupid playing videogames at 28yo but when i see there's people getting more than my current salary for tournaments i feel a bit better

I'll throw this out: If you feel so strongly that it was undeserved, I hope to be watching you on stream next EVO. I'll record myself dancing a jig and post it on TYM if you win. Heck I'll dance if you make it top 8.

i live in italy that is on the other side of the planet
i would really try my skills in such tournaments (or even minor events) we're working on it
and as for my actual skill maybe i'll never beat reo as it is now but surely i would have done better than most kabals there launching ground air blasts (yup i'm a kabal player)

by the way it's just when you watch soccer on tv
you know you can't kick a ball straight but still fell the right to say 'whoa i could've landed that penalty'

keep your camera ready, life can surprise anytime!

 

[RapZiLLa54]

This was my first time watching a live stream and I'm officially hooked. The Top 8 matches were incredible and while I was rooting for REO the whole time I was literally on the edge of my seat during all of his matches, great job man!

Is the top 8 loaded anywhere to watch?

 

[VIDA]

It is true tho after the blocking the low normal in that KL mixup a char can d1 out of the pressure right?

 

[Vulcan Hades]

btw i really would like to see gameplay improvements from top tiers
too many errors from PL REO and the others

REO didn't do any of these <basic> gimmicks in a vs lao matchup
the cyrax switch was pointless and granted PL victory

again, as with tom brady, poor choices made by experts

pro players don't spam or monkey rush stuff

gosh

here it is
there's no randomness in strategies, only deception

a random midscreen spin (and really, after so many posts i'm tired of saying it) is a huge mistake because it's punishable and it should be right there!it's not strategic randomness it's BS

i answer yes, they're just above average level due to better knowledge of the game BUT lack of solid fighting games basics and this thread become the next thing closest to hell
or i say no, they won a tournament were the average level was worse than online ranked so they're good if compared to others

when i'll see a good, rational, analysis to counter my bashing well, i'll STFU

I'll take the flame bait just to expose your scrubby ass.

First you say REO and PL aren't really pros because they do a lot of "random things". Well I got news for you kiddo those random things you see are actually educated guesses they make after having conditioned the opponent.

Example: You saw REO spam those otg Sais, he wasn't just zoning to build meter there, he was actually conditioning PL to dash block and expect more sais. But then out of nowhere REO randomly dashes forward and throws PL or jumps on him. The reason why that randomness worked even though it was extremely unsafe was because it was unexpected and PL was already committed to dash blocking. Then that's not being random or making a mistake, it's being smart. More so than you because you didn't even understand what was happening on the screen.

But don't take it from me, after all I'm just a nobody. Listen to the beast Daigo explain just how wrong you are:

I know you're probably too lazy to watch all the 4 parts so I'll resume it here for you:

1. You can use projectiles and random pokes/random specials to test reactions and habits of the opponent.

2. No matter how good your reaction is, sometimes you have to anticipate your opponent's actions. But you can only do so after having downloaded your opponent or having properly conditioned him.

3. Sometimes being random is good because you show your opponent you can be unpredictable and are willing to do risky things. This makes the opponent more hesitant to approach you or press buttons up close. Being random can be a severe mindfuck to an opponent who is trying to "download you". Thing is, when you play against a very good player, the last thing you expect is them to do something terribly unsafe and stupid.

4. When you're even at health sometimes the best option is to do nothing and just block. Wait for a mistake or opening from your opponent. Why risk giving your opponent a life lead when you can just wait and see what he does next?

5. Sometimes when you know you're about to lose the round, it's better to try and build as much meter as possible for the next round instead of trying to make a dumb comeback and waste meter for nothing.

1, 2 and 3 are relevant to the current discussion.

So who is lacking "solid fighting games basics"? REO and PerfectLegend or this random phony Shura guy full of himself? I wonder...

Now I'm not saying REO and PL didn't make mistakes. Of course they did. They dropped a few combos, they dropped punishes and made a few bad calls etc. But then again so did Justin Wong, Filipino Champ, Poongko, Mago, Tokido and Daigo.

And that "random Spin" from PL was probably in anticipation of a D4 from REO. But then it was REO who conditioned PL to think he was always going to dash up and D4.

 

[Juggs]

i answer yes, they're just above average level due to better knowledge of the game BUT lack of solid fighting games basics and this thread become the next thing closest to hell. or i say no, they won a tournament were the average level was worse than online ranked so they're good if compared to others pick whatever you want

Typical online warrior thinking that the online competition is superior to the offline tournament competition. People like you have never played in a serious tournament a day in their lives. There's absolutely ZERO pressure or nerves when playing online. There's nothing on the line, there's nothing at stake, there's NO ONE watching (with the exception of maybe a few people if you're playing KoTH), you're in your living room in a comfortable environment, and the atmosphere is placid.

There's always someone like you who think they're so much better than the players winning the tournaments. Or that there is better players out there that you've played. Well, who gives a fuck? If they're not showing up to the tournaments, they're completely irrelevant. No one cares about your meaningless online wins, sorry.

Now, stop derailing the thread with negativity.

 

[xenogorgeous]

Typical online warrior thinking that the online competition is superior to the offline tournament competition. People like you have never played in a serious tournament a day in their lives. There's absolutely ZERO pressure or nerves when playing online. There's nothing on the line, there's nothing at stake, there's NO ONE watching (with the exception of maybe a few people if you're playing KoTH), you're in your living room in a comfortable environment, and the atmosphere is placid.

There's always someone like you who think they're so much better than the players winning the tournaments. Or that there is better players out there that you've played. Well, who gives a fuck? If they're not showing up to the tournaments, they're completely irrelevant. No one cares about your meaningless online wins, sorry.

Now, stop derailing the thread with negativity.

Agreed. Online is never, and never will be the same business as Offline professional tourneys ....... online is full of shit, with rooms filled with scrubs, noobs and rage quiters with delusion of grandeur ..... lol

In these tourneys, we see people really good, that, being human beings, can do mistakes too, just like us, but, this does not change the fact that they are at least 1 level or 2 above the average player (normal MK fan that play this game , but are not good enough to go in tourneys). Expecting pros to do 0% mistakes in matches, this is naive ..............

@ Vulcan Hades : great explanation above. Agreed 100%.

 

[shura30]

EDIT: Stop trolling.

 

[ADR Napalm]

Going to take me a week to read through this thread lol.

 

[Shock]

Right now, there are no MK players better than Perfect Legend or REO until they show up and win. Case closed. Congratulate them, emulate them, study them, sure talk about their strategies, but always remember that you're going to mistakes too, like criticizing the top players of the biggest MK tournament in history being one of them. I HATE when arm chair quarterbacks nitpick the people who win and lose as if they never make mistakes. Those players usually don't show up to tournaments. 500+ players show up and magically, two of the widely accepted top players make it to the finals. There's no conspiracy or luck involved there. The top 64 was hardcore. Every player earned their placement.

I can tell you from personal experience as a professional fighting game player, and having that experience in many different game franchises over the last 20 years, that REO is no slouch and doesn't lack any basic fighting game fundamentals, in fact he embodies them. He wouldn't win MK, MKvDC, and UMK3 tournaments if that was the case. He even placed high in his first MKII tournament having virtually zero experience in that specific game. His fundamentals are, quite contrarily, that strong. Also, don't mistake anticipation for randomness. There is a huge difference between random, and psychic. When a player reaches a point where other players start calling their guesses "psychic" then they have achieved a legendary status because their guesses are more often successful than not.

I don't want to turn this into a tirade ragging on the online community, because I always encourage the online players to come out and become offline players, but "competitive" online players tend to have a piss poor attitude that usually levels out when they experience a tournament and don't win. These are the players who refuse to play others in the normal environment because it's easier to sit back at home and make comments. Some might say "Well you do the same thing by telling them from home" but the difference is, I've told primarily online players to their faces why they are wrong. Whether or not they can accept it, is their problem. So come out and enjoy the show, or stop the pointless double talk.

 

[Dark_Rob]

Right now, there are no MK players better than Perfect Legend or REO until they show up and win. Case closed. Congratulate them, emulate them, study them, sure talk about their strategies, but always remember that you're going to mistakes too, like criticizing the top players of the biggest MK tournament in history being one of them. I HATE when arm chair quarterbacks nitpick the people who win and lose as if they never make mistakes. Those players usually don't show up to tournaments. 500+ players show up and magically, two of the widely accepted top players make it to the finals. There's no conspiracy or luck involved there. The top 64 was hardcore. Every player earned their placement.

I can tell you from personal experience as a professional fighting game player, and having that experience in many different game franchises over the last 20 years, that REO is no slouch and doesn't lack any basic fighting game fundamentals, in fact he embodies them. He wouldn't win MK, MKvDC, and UMK3 tournaments if that was the case. He even placed high in his first MKII tournament having virtually zero experience in that specific game. His fundamentals are, quite contrarily, that strong. Also, don't mistake anticipation for randomness. There is a huge difference between random, and psychic. When a player reaches a point where other players start calling their guesses "psychic" then they have achieved a legendary status because their guesses are more often successful than not.

I don't want to turn this into a tirade ragging on the online community, because I always encourage the online players to come out and become offline players, but "competitive" online players tend to have a piss poor attitude that usually levels out when they experience a tournament and don't win. These are the players who refuse to play others in the normal environment because it's easier to sit back at home and make comments. Some might say "Well you do the same thing by telling them from home" but the difference is, I've told primarily online players to their faces why they are wrong. Whether or not they can accept it, is their problem. So come out and enjoy the show, or stop the pointless double talk.

When the truth needs to be spoken I can seldom think of a better man to speak it than Shock. Much love bro.

 

[Reedoms]

Right now, there are no MK players better than Perfect Legend or REO until they show up and win. Case closed. Congratulate them, emulate them, study them, sure talk about their strategies, but always remember that you're going to mistakes too, like criticizing the top players of the biggest MK tournament in history being one of them. I HATE when arm chair quarterbacks nitpick the people who win and lose as if they never make mistakes. Those players usually don't show up to tournaments. 500+ players show up and magically, two of the widely accepted top players make it to the finals. There's no conspiracy or luck involved there. The top 64 was hardcore. Every player earned their placement.

I can tell you from personal experience as a professional fighting game player, and having that experience in many different game franchises over the last 20 years, that REO is no slouch and doesn't lack any basic fighting game fundamentals, in fact he embodies them. He wouldn't win MK, MKvDC, and UMK3 tournaments if that was the case. He even placed high in his first MKII tournament having virtually zero experience in that specific game. His fundamentals are, quite contrarily, that strong. Also, don't mistake anticipation for randomness. There is a huge difference between random, and psychic. When a player reaches a point where other players start calling their guesses "psychic" then they have achieved a legendary status because their guesses are more often successful than not.

I don't want to turn this into a tirade ragging on the online community, because I always encourage the online players to come out and become offline players, but "competitive" online players tend to have a piss poor attitude that usually levels out when they experience a tournament and don't win. These are the players who refuse to play others in the normal environment because it's easier to sit back at home and make comments. Some might say "Well you do the same thing by telling them from home" but the difference is, I've told primarily online players to their faces why they are wrong. Whether or not they can accept it, is their problem. So come out and enjoy the show, or stop the pointless double talk.

Speaking it like it is.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Thanks to everybody who watched and supported us at MK's first ever EVO appearance. It was an experience I will never regret or forget. Thanks to those who saw my NW and gave me a shout out.

I ended up losing to konqer to put me in losers...I still think the best kitana out there. It went 2-1 with a close third round victory for him. I couldn't have asked for a better opponent to beat me.

Detroit ballin knocked me out with a controversial win over densel's little brother(I was to play the winner in losers finals to make top 16). I should have fought densel's brother(who origanly beat Detroit 2-1 and eliminated him). After some drama about him using a ps3 controller they made db313 and him fight again where Detroit won. Detroit beat me 2-0. After being real salty about it I challenged densel's brother to a best of three match to see what would have been, where I beat him 2-1. You can ask Hector Sanchez if you want a witness cause he pulled up a chair to watch our match due to the drama that ensued. Tom Brady had words with the ref that made them redo the match(AU digimon). You can ask Tom about the situation also.

So to anyone wondering what this all means, I should have beaten densel's bro to make top 16. I would have ended up playing Alex Valle and if I won ending up fighting atl redd(my other sparring partner besides pig) for a shot at top 8.

Oh well...you can say I'm still a little salty, but Detroit is a great player who deserved a shot. I lost to 2 great players and I'm not upset about that.


That said...
And a big screw you to Commentators who suck and to the refs that screwed me.

And a big shout out to all NW players including Teainabag! Let's put NW in the top for all tourneys to come!

 

[Lyuben]

Thanks to everybody who watched and supported us at MK's first ever EVO appearance. It was an experience I will never regret or forget. Thanks to those who saw my NW and gave me a shout out.

I ended up losing to konqer to put me in losers...I still think the best kitana out there. It went 2-1 with a close third round victory for him. I couldn't have asked for a better opponent to beat me.

Detroit ballin knocked me out with a controversial win over densel's little brother(I was to play the winner in losers finals to make top 16). I should have fought densel's brother(who origanly beat Detroit 2-1 and eliminated him). After some drama about him using a ps3 controller they made db313 and him fight again where Detroit won. Detroit beat me 2-0. After being real salty about it I challenged densel's brother to a best of three match to see what would have been, where I beat him 2-1. You can ask Hector Sanchez if you want a witness cause he pulled up a chair to watch our match due to the drama that ensued. Tom Brady had words with the ref that made them redo the match(AU digimon). You can ask Tom about the situation also.

So to anyone wondering what this all means, I should have beaten densel's bro to make top 16. I would have ended up playing Alex Valle and if I won ending up fighting atl redd(my other sparring partner besides pig) for a shot at top 8.

Oh well...you can say I'm still a little salty, but Detroit is a great player who deserved a shot. I lost to 2 great players and I'm not upset about that.


That said...
And a big screw you to Commentators who suck and to the refs that screwed me.

And a big shout out to all NW players including Teainabag! Let's put NW in the top for all tourneys to come!

You did well Lord, you were, certainly for me at least, the best Nightwolf player in the tournament and even though you did not make it higher, I thought you were better or equal to some of the top 8. I had lost faith in nightwolf as it seemed nobody would play the guy and I thought he was just another joke character, but you proved me wrong.

Pilamaya.

 

[summoning]

Right now, there are no MK players better than Perfect Legend or REO until they show up and win. Case closed. Congratulate them, emulate them, study them, sure talk about their strategies, but always remember that you're going to mistakes too, like criticizing the top players of the biggest MK tournament in history being one of them. I HATE when arm chair quarterbacks nitpick the people who win and lose as if they never make mistakes. Those players usually don't show up to tournaments. 500+ players show up and magically, two of the widely accepted top players make it to the finals. There's no conspiracy or luck involved there. The top 64 was hardcore. Every player earned their placement.

I can tell you from personal experience as a professional fighting game player, and having that experience in many different game franchises over the last 20 years, that REO is no slouch and doesn't lack any basic fighting game fundamentals, in fact he embodies them. He wouldn't win MK, MKvDC, and UMK3 tournaments if that was the case. He even placed high in his first MKII tournament having virtually zero experience in that specific game. His fundamentals are, quite contrarily, that strong. Also, don't mistake anticipation for randomness. There is a huge difference between random, and psychic. When a player reaches a point where other players start calling their guesses "psychic" then they have achieved a legendary status because their guesses are more often successful than not.

I don't want to turn this into a tirade ragging on the online community, because I always encourage the online players to come out and become offline players, but "competitive" online players tend to have a piss poor attitude that usually levels out when they experience a tournament and don't win. These are the players who refuse to play others in the normal environment because it's easier to sit back at home and make comments. Some might say "Well you do the same thing by telling them from home" but the difference is, I've told primarily online players to their faces why they are wrong. Whether or not they can accept it, is their problem. So come out and enjoy the show, or stop the pointless double talk.

I couldn't have said this better myself.. Also being in the offline gaming world for over 20 years not a pro by any means of course , its damn hard to do what Reo did or any of the top 64 even. Im lucky enough to play some of these guys everyweek. They are the real deal if anyone at home doesn't think so pull up a chair and play em offline

 

[rev0lver]

Right now, there are no MK players better than Perfect Legend or REO until they show up and win. Case closed.

I agree with your post, but remember that there were a few dominicans who couldn't make it

 

[Shock]

I agree with your post, but remember that there were a few dominicans who couldn't make it

You are absolutely correct!