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How strictly should TO's enforce tournament rules? And Jim's version of events from Frosty Faustings

GGA Max

Well-Known Member
Another note: Jim your prep talk or whatever with 16bit that sounds good and all but if you really feel like you would have won we can run back the match up for $$. Same with Emperor Max.

Funny story. Emperor Max who comes on here and calls me a scumbag asks me after the tournament "who should I pick to take away banes match ups" and I actually give some real advice to help the guy out, but I am a scumbag. I beat you and then I gave you advice. Yea I am soo bad.

Whatever both of you can play me for money with the same characters in the same conditions. You can also pick the stage.

Max do you think us being on TheMyscira would have changed the outcome? We can gladly run it back on themyscira.

I like how now people are making excuses for me beating them and getting backed up/praised, but if I say something like how for example the stream monitor had lag because of the hook ups used to stream it and show it on 3 different tv's. Also how one of the floor tv's set up was laggy too. Oh no but if I say something I am complaining. But Jim and Max nope they aren't complaining they are being reasonable.
I didn't call you a scumbag, but LBSH I'm sure you can't back out of stages like that. We didn't know how one sided it was going to be. I can easily admit I was out-played by the match-up and your high level play, no excuses. If it was really close, the stage could have mattered. It's just the principle. Other wise I'd just keep backing out of player select until I got a BGB stage, simple as that.

Let's not get off-topic, you can't adjust one of the 2 stages, by anyone's rulebook.
 

TakeAChance

TYM White Knight
Perfect Legend

In a game like Injustice, not picking your main character for a button check can give you an unfair advantage since stage selection is so important. Now, while you cannot be held at fault in this situation since there has been no clear rule against it, in the future I would say we as a community must agree that IF you button check, you both must do so with your intended character.

If not, questions like this will always be raised in regards to buttons checks and backing out.

To say it is a time issue is rediculous. We all have our mains selection on that screen down to muscle memory. It takes literally 1-2 seconds for us all to pick our character....you are no exception. It's not about holding hands, and as I said, in this case you did nothing technically wrong...but it is something this community can change for the future.

GGA 16 Bit AK Pig Of The Hut Krayzie

Perhaps this rule should be enacted across all scenes?
 

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Elder God
NetherRealm Studios
I was watching that Wound Cowboy vs. 16 Bit team tournament, and after 16 Bit beat Wound Cowboy, he celebrated as though he won an Evolution or MLG event, which was completely unprofessional.

And now in this thread Perfect Legend is being accused of cheating.


Why do you think Cowboy came to Chicago? For the GGA hype and atmosphere.

We invited him here. We donated for his trip and have housed him. Fool.
 

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Elder God
NetherRealm Studios
Perfect Legend

In a game like Injustice, not picking your main character for a button check can give you an unfair advantage since stage selection is so important. Now, while you cannot be held at fault in this situation since there has been no clear rule against it, in the future I would say we as a community must agree that IF you button check, you both must do so with your intended character.

If not, questions like this will always be raised in regards to buttons checks and backing out.

To say it is a time issue is rediculous. We all have our mains selection on that screen down to muscle memory. It takes literally 1-2 seconds for us all to pick our character....you are no exception. It's not about holding hands, and as I said, in this case you did nothing technically wrong...but it is something this community can change for the future.

GGA 16 Bit AK Pig Of The Hut Krayzie

Perhaps this rule should be enacted across all scenes?


I agree. HAN's rules for the GGA weekly are the best.
 

Rickyraws

This mean you don't like me?
Regardless of what side you're on, this is a shitty situation that happens in legitimate sports where one could argue the competitive atmosphere is similar. At the end of the day it remains a shitty situation that can be perceived as lose/ lose but we shouldn't let it become anything other than that. The real issue of whether TOs should be more strict etc. is where most of the debatable argument should be focused, because otherwise, we are no doubt going to tackle the shitty situation on a personal level from and to both sides. It sucks. It happens. It could be worse than we're making it seem and we're brushing it off; it could be nothing and we're making a big deal out of it. Whatever the case, we came to play, we love the games,we have different motivations and intentions, but we're all one community. Let's not start smearing each other and burning bridges. We're all adults here.
 

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Elder God
NetherRealm Studios
Just one example in


So, Han's rule clarifies that if you button check with a character you are locked to that character right?

The HAN rule is the button check must be announced and it's on that particular stage. Like whatever is double randomed on you play around in that match as the button check then you quick restart. So no going back to the menu and no going back to the selection screen.
 

TakeAChance

TYM White Knight
The HAN rule is the button check must be announced and it's on that particular stage. Like whatever is double randomed on you play around in that match as the button check then you quick restart. So no going back to the menu and no going back to the selection screen.
Sounds like a great rule to me. Props GGA HAN lol
 

LEGI0N47

I like to play bad characters
I find it interesting that if you've played X-box for quite a while, possibly years, and didn't know you could change controller options such as vibration in game....mmmkay
 

coolwhip

Master
Gladly:

This is funny you guys are trying to paint me out like a scumbag.

The problem here is you all have different rules in different scenes. I care not to keep track of.

Midwest does "double random" then keep the same stage if someone loses.

California does double random then loser picks stage or character or something.

East Coast does double random then double random again regardless.

It doesn't matter what the stage is. Also there is no point for me to pick my character then button check I am just trying to get the button check over cause it is mad tedious especially having to make sure vibration is cut off.

In other normal (Keyword: Normal) fighting game communities they do the same shit. Whichever char the damn cursor is on they just press the button to get into the match to check buttons. But no you guys want to know what char someone is gonna use and whatever. Like you want me to tell you the strategy I am going to use and how I am going to start the match? You want a manual? Want me to hold your hand and pour you a glass of milk. Sir would you like me to tuck you in at night? What else would you like? How about I get you some cheese with your wine.

Don't get mad at me cause you are salty you lost.

Another note: Jim your prep talk or whatever with 16bit that sounds good and all but if you really feel like you would have won we can run back the match up for $$. Same with Emperor Max.

Shout outs to Jim for giving his life story so people will sympathize with him lol.

Funny story. Emperor Max who comes on here and calls me a scumbag asks me after the tournament "who should I pick to take away banes match ups" and I actually give some real advice to help the guy out, but I am a scumbag. I beat you and then I gave you advice. Yea I am soo bad.

Whatever both of you can play me for money with the same characters in the same conditions. You can also pick the stage.

I'm sorry that I came to your scene and bodied you while you all play this game constantly offline within your crew and I play with barely anyone in crappy online conditions or practice mode while I am cycling through the other 5-6 games that I am practicing.

I am sure you all are also mad that PPJ went to NEC and beat people with the unfamiliar stuff and then got his back blown out at a tournament he was guaranteed top 3.

Max do you think us being on TheMyscira would have changed the outcome? We can gladly run it back on themyscira.

I like how now people are making excuses for me beating them and getting backed up/praised, but if I say something like how for example the stream monitor had lag because of the hook ups used to stream it and show it on 3 different tv's. Also how one of the floor tv's set up was laggy too. Oh no but if I say something I am complaining. But Jim and Max nope they aren't complaining they are being reasonable.


Final Statement: I zipped you all up and sent you back to GGA in body bags.

Should've said something at the tournament I would've gladly ran the matches back
While the above pop off is admittedly awesome and will add drama (which we all love), you really haven't answered the question about why you did what you did...

PS: Weren't you singing GGA's praise like a week ago?
 

MKB

Forum General Emeritus
Having run quite a few online events over the last 5 years, I can speak from some experience here.

Rules are put in place for a reason - to keep order and keep a smooth flow to the event. Carefully consider all rules before making them law andthen when you have to enforce them it won't be so difficult or come as a shock top anyone when it happens. The only time there should be an exception is if there is a legit medical emergency or if all the other players come to a consensus agreement to allow a brief pause to wait for a playing who is holding up the event. DQs need to be handed down to all players regardless of skill level and rules must be equally enforced among all players to ensure there is no bias or favoritism. I could write a lot more, but I have to get ready for work. I might edit this later or tag another post tonight.
 

coolwhip

Master
Also, Perfect Legend you claim each scene has a different rule and that's why you were confused. Okay, that's fine. But a DQ for pausing the game is a universal rule that is applied in every tournament, regardless of region. Meaning that when you hit pause, you knew the potential consequences. Unless you were flat out throwing the game on purpose (which wouldn't make sense since you could have just continued the match and changed the vibration before the next one), then you were essentially relying on Jim being a nice guy and letting the match continue. You can't claim that you didn't know the rules in that particular context. If you hit pause knowing that you'll lose the match but went ahead anyway, then there's no problem here. That's your right. But it seemed to me, according to what Jim said, that there was confusion and the TO had to interject.

I'm not going to comment on the stage picking thing because the rules are indeed somewhat unclear still, and you're right, it did turn into a "PL is a scumbag" debate.
 

coolwhip

Master
Also, let's not make this about who would have won. I don't think that's the point. Let's also not make this about PL being a scumbag. Keep in mind, Jim himself admitted that PL had WON THE FIRST ROUND before pausing the game, so I doubt he did it to halt momentum or anything. It was still a stupid thing to do, and the right call was made, but this is turning into PL is a cheating piece of shit which doesn't make sense since he was winning.
 

coolwhip

Master
I find it interesting that if you've played X-box for quite a while, possibly years, and didn't know you could change controller options such as vibration in game....mmmkay
...and this is exactly why I have an issue with the way this is turning out to be. Here, the above post implies PL wanted to halt momentum on purpose, despite knowing he can change the vibration in game. This doesn't make any sense since he was ahead in the match. I really feel this is gonna be one of those things that people turn into "X player hit pause because he was losing" story, and just run with it, when that's not the case. Anyway, PL hit pause and ended up losing the game.

If the question is: who should make that call, the player or the TO? Then I think we all know the answer to this, it's the TO.
 

G4S Claude VonStroke

@MK_ClaudeVS on twitter
This is the first time I'm hearing that you have to button check with your intended character. I've never heard of that in any game and it would be unfair to expect someone outside of GGA to automatically know that rule, if it even was a rule at FF.
 

G4S Claude VonStroke

@MK_ClaudeVS on twitter
As far as pausing goes.. I was playing KI at Red bank saturday and my buttons were messed up because I didn't do a button check. Instead of pausing I just played it out and then lost, switched my buttons for the next match and played on. That was my fault for not button checking and it is what it is. No one had to go to a TO, I fucked up and I lost. Is Jim saying PL didn't want to take the loss?
 

coolwhip

Master
Is Jim saying PL didn't want to take the loss?
Yeah, that's really what I want to know. If so, then it's pretty shitty. If not, then I don't see what's the problem. Again, if it is merely to raise the question: "who should decide?" then we're all in agreement that unless the player who messed up just says "I fucked up, you win this game," then the TO should decide.

Unless PL didn't want to take the loss, then this is a bit much ado about nothing. He was winning the match anyway, he paused, and he rightly lost that match. What's more left to discuss?
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Good post. It should be up to the person running that part of the bracket to enforce the rules automatically in my opinion. It is really annoying to have to do that crap yourself especially when there is LITERALLY A PERSON ASSIGNED TO DO IT IN MOST CASES....
 

G4S KT

Gaming4Satan Founder
IMO it really depends on when the game gets paused.

I've had tournament matches where the buttons are messed up, let myself get bopped the first round, then pause it and change between rounds and go on to win that match. I don't see any problem with that
 

TheSpore

Nurgle Chaos God of Death and Disease
As always I do my best to remain as unbiased as possible and I do have a little bit to put out here. No I have not been to a major and no I have not played a butt ton of locals and I am still very new to the FGC scene, however I do have experience with playing and running tournaments within a competetive environment back in my Warhammer 40k days of playing the table top, so I will be using much of my experience from there as well as my experience from the military as well.

First off, there is no need to set a universal set of rules for all tournaments to follow in throughout the country, if all TOs would like to band together and create such a thing so be it, but there is no true need to do so. Every TO should be setting the rules and those rules must be enforced by the TOs or whoever else is deemed by them to have that position, this is why most tournaments should typically have more than one TO in place.

Perfect Legend: Though I know I have had many disagreements with you in the past I am simply going to say this and only this and it is not just for you, but everyone out there that partakes in these tournaments. It is the responsibility of all the players that entered in the tournament to understand and know the rules of what is and isn't allowed. If the rules are set that during a button check you are to pick your character of choice for that set, then that is the rule that must be followed. If players decide to not learn the rules of the tournament, there shouldn't be an argument at all between TOs and players, but the rules are to be enforced accordingly regardless if the player was ignorant of said rules. Plain and Simple. Whether or not if the player agrees to these rules or feels they are unreasonable is irelevent, they paid to play and therfore agreed to accept and abide by said rules, consider your sign-up being the signing of a contract stating you will agree and obey to the terms of use.

The players should never have the ability to make the desicions as far what is to be done when a rule is broken intentionally or unintentionally. It is the TO's job to discern exactly what occured and to make a valid judgement on how to press forawrd. A good reason for this definatley comes form my 40k days of playing in those tournaments as well as running them. Since a game of 40k is based around a preset book of rules on how a game is run, there will be times and situations where both players will be confused on how to handle said issue and situation, mainly due to the wording of a rule, in which case the TO has to make the valid desicion on how a rule will be interprated from the rule book. You CANNOT allow a player to decide the way it will work, for they likely will biasly decide the outcome that will favor them in the long run. The TO must hold that responsibility regardless if they don't or want to feel like they are being an asshole in the process. As a TO they must maintain the business is business and it is nothing personal regardless if the players involved are their personal friends.

Rules must be present in a tournament for they keep things flowing smoothly and help to address when an issue occurs such as a hardware failure or a player trying to cheat. Rules, procedures, and protocols exist for many reasons, it is the same reason why when I was in the Navy I was enforced to ensure every sailor in my line during a ship mooring evolution was not wearing any jewelry or gloves regardless of how hot or cold it was outside. The reason that rule exists is for the safety of the sailors participating in the evolution and if anyone is curious as to why that rule exists just google line handling mishaps, but I am certain you will not enjoy the images you see.

I apologize for such a long post, but this is something that does need to be addressed and would like to see it fixed and resolved, considering I am 1 month away from graduating college and plan to start competing at these different tournaments that take place.

General M2Dave , GGA 16 Bit, Jim, AK Pig Of The Hut
 

Vandy

Kumite!
Hello everyone. I am a TO - I hope you come to my event next month in Nashville =)

It is the responsibility of the player to call the TO (or bracket runner / game director) over

It is the responsibility of the TO to enforce the rule.

Adhering to rules outside of the game itself is part of a tournament. No one should feel bad about calling an opponent out over it.
 

Sami

Warrior
running tournaments within a competetive environment back in my Warhammer 40k days
You have my sympathies :). If there's one thing I don't miss is the galizzions of rule issues in 40K. Thankfully I've switched to Warmachine/Hordes which is actually designed for and works in a tourney setting.

(Sorry for the derail!)
 

TheSpore

Nurgle Chaos God of Death and Disease
You have my sympathies :). If there's one thing I don't miss is the galizzions of rule issues in 40K. Thankfully I've switched to Warmachine/Hordes which is actually designed for and works in a tourney setting.

(Sorry for the derail!)
Why thank you yeah there is always some crazy issue in 40k that just doesn't fit in line with the rules, I have a Hordes army but never got actually run the game, the few games I played ran so much smoother than a game of 40k ever did...