Forever King's new and improved Tier List

[Red Reaper]

I sort of agree with Doombawks. Tiers are not based on tier results but maybe it's time to stop clinging to old conventional wisdom and start coming at this with a new perspective. Is there any region where the standard tier list applies?

So Cal...

 

[ApocaLips]

You're totally right, how could I be so blind. Nearly as large a d.2 as Aquaman

Banes d2 is WAY bigger than Aquaman's. That fucking thing hits from like a third of the screen away. The hitbox is nowhere near the animation. When I first got clipped by it when playing bipolar i wtfed hard.

That's also not accounting for all the other ways it's way more amazing than everyone else's d2. The fact that you can cancel it into charge is silly. Has a ton of active frames to blow up wakeup attacks with d2~any armored move. I hear it also plays DVDs.

 

[16 Bit]

So Cal...

The home of Grundy?

 

[arde5643]

So Cal...

Yeah, Socal, home of MMH, Batgirl, Zod, and Aquaman...? Whu..huh?



The only Aquaman in top 8 is Theo's who plays mostly with Supes.

 

[Red Reaper]

The home of Grundy?

Has he won the most?

Yeah, Socal, home of MMH, Batgirl, Zod, and Aquaman...? Whu..huh?



The only Aquaman in top 8 is Theo's who plays mostly with Supes.

How many Aquaman's do you want us to have? Krayzie is going to bring MMH and if things don't go well with Arrow again you'll start seeing him from me as well. (I haven't been there in weeks, possibly months.)

Our top Kabal player will probably pick up Batgirl soon (he hasn't started playing Injustice yet) and Chef has placed well with Zod, even against pre-patch Supes. I think we have a solid representation of characters.

 

[16 Bit]

Has he won the most?

How many Aquaman's do you want us to have? Krayzie is going to bring MMH and if things don't go well with Arrow again you'll start seeing him from me as well. (I haven't been there in weeks, possibly months.)

Our top Kabal player will probably pick up Batgirl soon (he hasn't started playing Injustice yet) and Chef has placed well with Zod, even against pre-patch Supes. I think we have a solid representation of characters.

I don't know how many he has won. Enough to where Grundy is one of the top characters there.

There are many reasons characters like Hawkgirl, Catwoman, Bane and Scorpion could do well at GBS and Grundy could do well at WNF. There's many reasons KF or Aquaman have not done as well as they "should". I do not know the answer, only that everyone being wrong about the tier lists should be on the table and in the discussion.

 

[arde5643]

I believe ImmortalAngel's Scorp is a frequent top 8 as well in Socal (WNF).

Krayzie still has pocket Catwoman I believe - he just wants to level up MMH for secondary and perhaps possible main if he really enjoys MMH.
Isn't Chef going back to Black Adam? He seems to be doing much better with Black Adam from the recent streams - he'll still keep some pocket characters to handle BA's bad MUs.

In terms of top tier MMH, the player I see really use MMH to the fullest seems to be Jupiter in the Break.

Even Jeremiah in GGA starts using Doomsday again after using MMH for several weeklies (though I believe he still keeps MMH for bad DD MUs).

 

[KingHippo]

I see people still ignore weaknesses as a whole, such as bad mobility and not a strong enough distance game to compensate.

Oh well, carry on.

Here's what I don't get. I'm supposed to believe a character that has a very good mid/low mixup, possibly best oki next to Flash and probably the best jump attacks period is supposed to be this super overrated character.

Where's the weaknesses in the distance game? Is it the fastest straight projectile in the game along with the extremely damaging MB followup? The very fast recovering missiles that are heavily positive and win most trades? The long active normal low that launches? The diagonal projectile that can be done low to the ground? The long range jump asnd dash checker that starts really fast?

I feel like for a long time GL players have coasted on saying his poor mobility allows him to get blown up by zoners by ultimately ignoring that he out damages most of those zoners as well as having unconventional ways to get around attacks (Air rocket, F3, b1 ducking under things like trait bats and sinestero trait). He has all the tools to be an extremely strong defensive character that the game favors but also has the mixups and oki that the stronger rush chars have. Lnsoch

 

[M2Dave]

There are many reasons characters like Hawkgirl, Catwoman, Bane and Scorpion could do well at GBS and Grundy could do well at WNF. There's many reasons KF or Aquaman have not done as well as they "should". I do not know the answer, only that everyone being wrong about the tier lists should be on the table and in the discussion.

One of the talking points about Aquaman is that he has one of the best footsies in the game, but some characters in this game entirely ignore footsies.

How do you play footsies against...

- a character who has armor on all special moves for 15 consecutive seconds?
- a character whose MB special move has two hits of armor and provides a block advantage of +6?
- a character who can do 60% juggles from an advancing, 15 frame poke?

Some characters have moves or traits that defy traditional fighting gameplay, yet Aquaman is forced to play an "honest" game in lots of match ups.

 

[16 Bit]

One of the talking points about Aquaman is that he has one of the best footsies in the game, but some characters in this game entirely ignore footsies.

How do you play footsies against...

- a character who has armor on all special moves for 15 consecutive seconds?
- a character whose MB special move has two hits of armor and provides a block advantage of +6?
- a character who can do 60% juggles from an advancing, 15 frame poke?

Some characters have moves or traits that defy traditional fighting gameplay, yet Aquaman is forced to play an "honest" game in lots of match ups.

It's the same thing I complain about with Catwoman and although he is a better character than her it's a similar issue. His wakeups not being fully invincible is a big fucking deal as well and it's going to be more apparent in the future. Are people paying attention to what Slips is doing in the Catwoman matchup on our stream?

This feels like the era of the metabreakers at times. Perhaps over time as the matchups and skill of the more honest characters develop they will rise.

 

[Tom Brady]

Since I am obviously not considered the Aquaman expert here, we rely on ppl who DO NOT EVEN MAIN THE CHARACTER for all Aquaman mu's and knowledge. MK9 all over again where my SZ knowledge was irrelevant..

Right now, bracketology is the difference between Aquaman going 2-2 and winng the whole tournament.

1. Aquaman does not have the best IGAU footsies.
2. Aquaman is one of the most unsafe if not the most unsafe character in the game.
3. Against most characters, they can single hit launch him after all of his unsafe attacks, not allowing trait to do what you ppl think it actually does. Yes, there are plenty of times where trait helps, but it doesnt help make him safe as most characters can single hit launch him after blocking an unsafe attack.

I could go on for days, but LBSH.. my thoughts on Aquaman are neither welcomed, respected, or relevant.

 

[Red Reaper]

I don't know how many he has won. Enough to where Grundy is one of the top characters there.

There are many reasons characters like Hawkgirl, Catwoman, Bane and Scorpion could do well at GBS and Grundy could do well at WNF. There's many reasons KF or Aquaman have not done as well as they "should". I do not know the answer, only that everyone being wrong about the tier lists should be on the table and in the discussion.

Yeah. I guess. I just like that my favorite character is placed low in this thread.. lol. Not that I want people to think he's low on the list, it's just better than people thinking the opposite.

PS: I wonder how good turtle Scorp on the Gotham Stripper Stage or Pig's Stage is..? He's got to move up tiers on those stages right?

 

[Rude]

Obviously, Batman is the best character in the game.

According to Batman experts such as Qwark, he can punish -1 moves.

Hold that.

 

[rev0lver]

Am I the only one who doesn't get why 35% is good damage in this game

that's like average to below average compared to the characters who really do good damage

 

[rev0lver]

1. Aquaman does not have the best IGAU footsies.
2. Aquaman is one of the most unsafe if not the most unsafe character in the game.
3. Against most characters, they can single hit launch him after all of his unsafe attacks, not allowing trait to do what you ppl think it actually does. Yes, there are plenty of times where trait helps, but it doesnt help make him safe as most characters can single hit launch him after blocking an unsafe attack.

Wow. what a downplayer. why are you listening to wonderchef

 

[Rude]

Wait, are Aquaman's strings particularly negative? I was under the impression that his low starter was safe?

How is he THE MOST UNSAFE CHARACTER IN THE GAME?

 

[rev0lver]

There are many reasons characters like Hawkgirl, Catwoman, Bane and Scorpion could do well at GBS and Grundy could do well at WNF. There's many reasons KF or Aquaman have not done as well as they "should". I do not know the answer, only that everyone being wrong about the tier lists should be on the table and in the discussion.

Well you also have no supermans, a black adam who doesn't really play, an aquaman who doesn't really play, no batgirl, no wonder woman, no zod, no killer frost, no top batman, and a mmh who just started with him. so that's why lower tiers win lower tier tournaments lol.

 

[Rude]

Well you also have no supermans, a black adam who doesn't really play, an aquaman who doesn't really play, no batgirl, no wonder woman, no zod, no killer frost, no top batman, and a mmh who just started with him. so that's why lower tiers win lower tier tournaments lol.

Oh. Shit.

Shots fired from Lex Luthor's gun.

 

[16 Bit]

Oh. Shit.

Shots fired from Lex Luthor's gun.

It's not a shot when it's true. GGA would obviously not be a fair sample.

 

[Fred Marvel]

im still shocked you have Black Adam and Batman in the same tier as Green Lantern

 

[rev0lver]

Oh. Shit.

Shots fired from Lex Luthor's gun.

It's not a shot when it's true. GGA would obviously not be a fair sample.

Yeah I'm not trying to shit on gga or anything lol. It's just that they have weird character representation.

i am super jelly New York's not like that though

 

[Doombawkz]

Well you also have no supermans, a black adam who doesn't really play, an aquaman who doesn't really play, no batgirl, no wonder woman, no zod, no killer frost, no top batman, and a mmh who just started with him. so that's why lower tiers win lower tier tournaments lol.

They all died. Either they got broken, got scratched, or were reminded of someone's superiority.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

People need to stop taking tier lists so seriously.

This game has so much further to grow and expand, even thinking this hard about them right now is absurd.

Looking for ways to get higher Doomsday damage > Looking for new inescapable Slade setups > lists.

 

[THTB]

Here's what I don't get. I'm supposed to believe a character that has a very good mid/low mixup, possibly best oki next to Flash and probably the best jump attacks period is supposed to be this super overrated character.

Where's the weaknesses in the distance game? Is it the fastest straight projectile in the game along with the extremely damaging MB followup? The very fast recovering missiles that are heavily positive and win most trades? The long active normal low that launches? The diagonal projectile that can be done low to the ground? The long range jump asnd dash checker that starts really fast?

I feel like for a long time GL players have coasted on saying his poor mobility allows him to get blown up by zoners by ultimately ignoring that he out damages most of those zoners as well as having unconventional ways to get around attacks (Air rocket, F3, b1 ducking under things like trait bats and sinestero trait). He has all the tools to be an extremely strong defensive character that the game favors but also has the mixups and oki that the stronger rush chars have. Lnsoch

Guys, I'm not saying the damn character is like something awful lol. What I am saying is that his problems do come into play and I feel no one acknowledges it enough. Despite these strengths, he still doesn't have the matchup numbers to back up this top 10 position. But like I said, he's a good in tournament because the numbers are offset by the fact that his harder matchups are very uncommon. And yes, GL can outdamage characters and has unconventional tools to cover his mobility issues vs zoners...that only helps once he gets close enough to use such options, and tbh, most zoners shut down the usage of air oa rocket in some way. Also, most characters who are better zoners are capable of reliably stuffing his MB oa rocket and RP attempts. These characters limit his options at range well, and due to his bad mobility, it only gets worse.

Only thing I am saying is he is among the best tournament characters due to luck of the draw on his matchup numbers, but he is overrated in tier lists, if you can understand where I'm getting at. IMO his problems are notable enough, but they are ignored or underplayed.

 

[KingHippo]

Guys, I'm not saying the damn character is like something awful lol. What I am saying is that his problems do come into play and I feel no one acknowledges it enough. Despite these strengths, he still doesn't have the matchup numbers to back up this top 10 position. But like I said, he's a good in tournament because the numbers are offset by the fact that his harder matchups are very uncommon. And yes, GL can outdamage characters and has unconventional tools to cover his mobility issues vs zoners...that only helps once he gets close enough to use such options, and tbh, most zoners shut down the usage of air oa rocket in some way. Also, most characters who are better zoners are capable of reliably stuffing his MB oa rocket and RP attempts. These characters limit his options at range well, and due to his bad mobility, it only gets worse.

Only thing I am saying is he is among the best tournament characters due to luck of the draw on his matchup numbers, but he is overrated in tier lists, if you can understand where I'm getting at. IMO his problems are notable enough, but they are ignored or underplayed.

I won't do the theory fighting, but I will say that matchup numbers keep being brought up, when there is no chance in hell there is a fleshed out list at all for GL, let alone most characters. I'm leaving out matchup numbers and simply putting tools on the table. When you are so versatile and somewhat immune to meta-busting characters, you tend to have a good shelf life (Personally I think GL is this games version of ST Dee Jay, who was similarly versatile and had somewhat of the same issues on paper)