Why are Injustice players so bad at whiff punishing?

[Vulcan Hades]

yeah go tell crimsonshadow to go ban himself!!!... btw do you know what punish means?

Yes and the point of this thread is how whiff punishing in Injustice is different than in SF. So you need to stop thinking the way you're thinking right now. Or keep thinking you need to be in range of b23 to do something about a whiff.

Watch Injustice tournaments and count how many times a character whiffs their huge string and the other guy is just standing there like an idiot not doing anything about it. It happens a lot because people are not ready and don't have the knowledge. As Justin Wong puts it: You can't punish something if you haven't trained your mind for it. If you haven't practiced punishing it/countering it in training mode. And that's what I'm talking about.

Normals in SF don't inflict chip. If they would chip and lead to 50/50s then it would be preferred to a 6% whiff punish.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Even if it doesnt punish it keeps the opponent in check. Sometimes thats better than nothing. Catwoman uses b3 to whiff punish most of the time IIRC

Which is fine, and we do it a lot -- but you still can't call getting a blockstring a "whiff punish".

Catwoman more commonly uses Cat Dash actually, but it's situational and punishable. And still better than what a lot of characters have.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Which is fine, and we do it a lot -- but you still can't call getting a blockstring a "whiff punish".

He means you are making someone not want to whiff anymore. I.e the literal definition of punish. You guys are arguing the FG Definition, which is semantics and not the point of what Vulcan is tryibg to say.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

If your character has situational whiff punishes, try to force your opponent into those situations. With Aquaman I set up back 1 whiff punishes all the time. It may not be easy but with how safe this game is in general you have to either go all in offensively or really set things up.

 

[Big Pampering]

He means you are making someone not want to whiff anymore. I.e the literal definition of punish. You guys are arguing the FG Definition, which is semantics and not the point of what Vulcan is tryibg to say.

Its good that you said this, because now we can talk about risk reward. Do you think superman players will stop abusing f23 if all you can do as a ''whiff punish'' is make him block a string? no, because if he catches you he will get a full combo. same with martian manhunter, you think he will stop doing the teleport if you can make him block a string after his teleport gets blocked?

 

[CrimsonShadow]

He means you are making someone not want to whiff anymore. I.e the literal definition of punish. You guys are arguing the FG Definition, which is semantics and not the point of what Vulcan is tryibg to say.

I hear what you're trying to say -- but you're not going to scare a Superman player off with your 0.6% chip and frame advantage, because the risk/reward of what happens when he lands an f2 is stacked so far in his favor. Nor are you going to frighten away a Batman who can regain advantage at the moment of his choosing with a single button press. Or a catwoman with f1, etc. So if you really want to frighten many characters away from throwing out their better moves, you have to hit them with something more substantial when they miss.

This applies unless you're a godlike frametrap character like BA (admittedly a little less godlike now) or a mixup machine like The Flash, where a lot of characters really don't want you at advantage under any circumstances. But you're not going to stop a GL from throwing out b1 if the worst that happens when he misses is being at a few frames of disadvantage.

Risk/reward.

Edit: PerfectMindGame and I are on the same wavelength here.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

You guys are hopeless lol. Fuck me for trying right.

I was going to make a video to show related tech but you guys are making me depressed. So yall gonna stay clueless for a big while until Tom, REO, Pig or m2dave make a similar thread and you finally get it.

hint: counter whiff string OS

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

You guys are hopeless lol. Fuck me for trying right.

I was going to make a video to show related tech but you guys are making me depressed. So yall gonna stay clueless for a big while until Tom, REO, Pig or m2dave make a similar thread and you finally get it.

hint: counter whiff string OS

But, but, but, but... I like new tech.

 

[Protagonist_1]

I feel both sides bring some really good points. I wouldn't necessarily consider a blockstring a punish, and there are characters in the game that are quite limited when it comes to whiff punishing effectively. With that being said, if that's my only option, then I'm going to do the move the best helps for my advantage. If I have to do a blockstring, then darn it I'm going to do it lol. A lot better than doing nothing. Just my 2 cents

In addition to that, hopefully NRS will focus more on improving whiff punishing moves in their next game for all characters.

 

[Deleted member 9158]

because we all suck and have no fundamentals, duh

 

[Frostbarrier]

hell no.. u cant punish shit, whiff or not.
you suck.

Play my green lantern and I will show you!!!

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

Play my green lantern and I will show you!!!

omg B13
gdlk sklz

 

[Frostbarrier]

omg B13
gdlk sklz

Lol! actually I was talking about "Green Lantern Might" ... that shit always catches me whiffing stuff ... so I figured I could also use it against people, it's a double edged sword!!

 

[Wasted]

Whiff punishing is part of all fighting games and leads to faster victories. It has nothing to do with how heavy a game focuses on footsies, it's about exploiting and bad behaviour. If you can whiff punish in Marvel or MK, you can whiff punish here. Too many times I've punished Superman for 40% for missing F23.

"You don't need to in this game" is a cop out.

Learn what you can, and can't whiff punish, then destroy. If you're afraid of something still being active, get your fat fucking arse to training mode. It isn't hard.

 

[SUPARNOVAX]

The question is somewhat moot because IGAU isn't well designed enough or just not designed in the context most of the more popular fighters are done in regards to the typical "footsie" and whiff punish scenarios.

The best whiff punishes in this game are more on long recovery specials and strings rather than footsie based whiff punishing in 2d fighters which have much more canvas to do so because of hurt boxes.

Pretty sure IGAU has body/limb hit detection like Tekken, but unfortunately this game isn't a good competitive game like Tekken.

 

[VenomX-90]

After you punish them in the game, get your belt out and punish the person by beating them down like Smokey in the movie Friday in IRL. Since you wanna talk about punishing someone.

 

[Wasted]

The question is somewhat moot because IGAU isn't well designed enough or just not designed in the context most of the more popular fighters are done in regards to the typical "footsie" and whiff punish scenarios.

Quit making excuses. IGAU is its own game and should be learnt accordingly. Learning new timings is not a bad thing.

The best whiff punishes in this game are more on long recovery specials and strings rather than footsie based whiff punishing in 2d fighters which have much more canvas to do so because of hurt boxes.

Irrelevant to the discussion. A whiff punish is a whiff punish, regardless of whether it's a special or a normal. Whiffing coming from mostly specials doesn't diminish the importance of whiff punishing with regards to damage.

Pretty sure IGAU has body/limb hit detection like Tekken, but unfortunately this game isn't a good competitive game like Tekken.

I can assure you it doesn't, considering how many moves in this game still whiff when character models visually collide, or hit when there is no visual collision, etc.

 

[SUPARNOVAX]

Quit making excuses. IGAU is its own game and should be learnt accordingly. Learning new timings is not a bad thing.

Nah there's no excuse to make. NRS half assed this game for the mainstream to buy. They already got all their sales in for the game and there won't be any more good balancing and marketing left. Time for Mortal Kombat 10 development and marketing so they can get more money. They definitely don't care about the competitive scene. Everything in this game is wonky.

 

[Wasted]

The game may suck, but that's no reason for those who still play competitively to not learn how to whiff punish.

It can be done, it's beneficial, so fucking do it.

If you're going to play, no matter how shitty the game, play it properly.

 

[Lord Hollow]

It's not about reactions -- it's about the tools to use on reaction. You need a move that is long-range enough for you to be safely out of range of the whiffed move's active frames yet still hit your opponent, and it has to come out quickly enough to hit them before they can recover/block. Not everyone has those tools.

Lobo's standing 3 (11 frames) is the bees knees, then. backdash~3~Space hook is the greatest for punishing string happy opponents. I end with Space Hook so I can /get nuked damage boost/push them back to the corner/reload trait, etc. 3 is ideal for close-mid and mid range combat.

 

[Protagonist_1]

Shazam's b2, 3 is