Have we entered the Dark Era of The FGC?

[shaowebb]

• Injustice doesn't really promote strong rushdown in comparison to other games so it alienates fans of certain gameflows.

You are a fool.

Im using Bane. All I play is up close, but the speed and blockstring style of rushdown pressure and high low mixups that defines the specific pacings of games like King of Fighters, or UMVC3, or Street Fighter or whatever...this game isn't the same. Remember when the game started? Folks were complaining about mad trying to figure out how to get in on stuff because the only real tool was dash then block and jump ins. Folks are largely used to more options vs zoning such as projectiles canceling each other out which is the biggest difference in this game.

The distinction is there. No roll, no wavedash, no projectile canceling...heck even the no block cancel dashing from MK9 made many decide it wasn't their cup of tea. Thats fine because to each their own but the footsies in injustice dont really leap out and speak to folks right away. I play the rushdown that exists in it and even I can admit its not like a normal rushdown gameplan using Bane or even my back up Hawkgirl.

Injustice rushdown doesn't really appeal in the same manner as the rushdown in other fighting games. It is it's own thing and it sadly does alienate some players. Doesn't make it bad, but I stick by my statement that it alienates some players to the poin that they dont click with the game.

 

[Briyen]

i remember when sf4 finally came out, EVERYONE got back into fightin games, then companies saw that market, and revived MvC AND MK9, 2011 was such a beautiful year ;')

then of course too many companies did this and people got sick of fighting games again, the whole vibe is different now to them

 

[M2Dave]

Im using Bane. All I play is up close, but the speed and blockstring style of rushdown pressure and high low mixups that defines the specific pacings of games like King of Fighters, or UMVC3, or Street Fighter or whatever...this game isn't the same. Remember when the game started? Folks were complaining about mad trying to figure out how to get in on stuff because the only real tool was dash then block and jump ins. Folks are largely used to more options vs zoning such as projectiles canceling each other out which is the biggest difference in this game.

The distinction is there. No roll, no wavedash, no projectile canceling...heck even the no block cancel dashing from MK9 made many decide it wasn't their cup of tea. Thats fine because to each their own but the footsies in injustice dont really leap out and speak to folks right away. I play the rushdown that exists in it and even I can admit its not like a normal rushdown gameplan using Bane or even my back up Hawkgirl.

Injustice rushdown doesn't really appeal in the same manner as the rushdown in other fighting games. It is it's own thing and it sadly does alienate some players. Doesn't make it bad, but I stick by my statement that it alienates some players to the poin that they dont click with the game.

The game is littered with safe 50/50 mix ups that lead to safe 50/50 mix ups, which is the simplest rush down strategy a fighting game can have. All characters that have such strategy (i.e., Batgirl, Killer Frost, The Flash, and Wonder Woman) are top tier characters. The characters that lack such strategy must be able to zone effectively. How else would they be able to compete?

The "folks" were complaining about zoning because they are scrubs who ought to be ignored. If you cannot win with a character that does 60% combos and carries you to the wall Tekken style in order to set up yet another 50/50 mix up that leads to 40% combos, you need to stop playing and ranting about fighting games because your opinion is irrelevant.

 

[iShinnok03]

I think everyone just got tired and went to play League of Legends.

 

[VenomX-90]

Dark Era probably, its just everybody's Ego that effects the FGC.

 

[DuBBer Kiir]

TLDR Whole thread;

Games just aren't as solid as they used to be, everything's been done. Melee for instance lasted so long because there's never been a fighter like it, a game riddled with so many "glitches" (tech skill), yet people found a way to push the mechanics of the game to its limits and now the metagame for SSBM is ridiculous. It's a game that's aged like wine, been over a decade and people are still trying to keep it alive, because the things you can do in that game are only limited to how fast your fingers are and your knowledge of the mechanics. It does, however, share similar paths of the FG's we love here, most top players have flocked to chars at the top of the tier list, but others still continue to main the low-mid tier chars.

It's a heartbreaker to go back and watch all the matches at the end of MK's life, watching everybody hop on the Kabal train, but when you're up against people like Reo, or Curbo, who happen to be maining one of the top 2 characters, you don't really have much choice. Although I think more of the cast can fight Kenshi and Kabal than people think but that's a whole other topic lol.

And everybody at first was all "give injustice a chance dude the game's been out for a month", and all this time later I still find MK alot more fun and challenging. I don't by any means hate Injustice, but its clunkiness and limitations have really put me off. The last balance patch was pretty awesome, pretty fair, but the game just doesn't appeal to me like MK did. IDK... lot's of shit has changed over the last couple of years.

 

[Justice]

Ok true

TFC and vxg were great additions

But vxg turn out was very poor

Evo turn out I thought was loweras well access the board

Could it be a combo of factors such as:
Those who traveled moved on
Age
No youth influx
Better net code for stay at home play?

I'm interested in this discussion because I want that golden era back

VXG is a special case though since they weren't looking to rival the numbers of mainland US tournaments. If I recall correctly, Rolando said on OBS that VXG was actually at capacity for players and that it was a huge success for them and the island of ST. Marten.

I think it's a combination of a lot of things. Sure less younger players are coming out but why? I think that part of it is the economy and another part of it is the whole attitude of "Why would I spend money to play games that I can play at home?"

Another issue is that the games are meh. KI is too new, Injustice isn't grabbing the hearts of the tournament players, and most other games are too old for people to care. So that's definitely going to affect numbers.

Just a couple of my thoughts to throw in there. I'm really interested in this discussion too.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

It seems to me that at this point people are being lured away from the fighting game genre to the MOBA and RTS games. Simply because these games have great support from the developers/publishers right from the gate, and are specifically made for a tournament environment along with great sponsors, and an instant audience due to the fact that most of those games are free to play from the get go.

I feel fighting game company's should start promoting tournaments as a marketing campaign to not only sell their games, but to also create awareness of the tournament scene. I personally did not know there was a FGC until Mortal Kombat 9 came out, and I have been playing fighters since sf2. I think that as soon as you pop open your game case there should be a sheet announcing tournaments for the year, or at the very least a message of the day in-game listing upcoming events, to really motivate people to come out and meet new people, compete, and just have a great time.

Until then though, I feel things are gonna drop a bit unless there is some sort of big draw toward the fighting game genre in my opinion.

I'm extremely passionate about what you just said


Can u imagine the sales of your video game if on the f ing box it had a sticker that said


"Participate in upcoming tournaments with cash $ pools up to 40,000 for top 8in upcoming months with online qualifiers to win free trips to compete "

Every god damn 8-17 year old would scream at mommy to buy it

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

vxg still has NOT paid out the winners... see chris g's twitter

GGA 16 Bit
Really?

 

[Chrishaspads]

yes we have wonder chef won a tournament

 

[RM Truth]

Yes, because Lobo won a MU in a winner's finals.

 

[16 Bit]

GGA 16 Bit
Really?

It's true, no one from GGA has been paid.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

GGA 16 Bit
Really?

It's true, no one from GGA has been paid.

Justice

 

[Jimmypotato]

I think people just got sick of Pot Monstering for asshole "top" players and decided to stay home for most tournys. Evo turn out will always be good because it's vegas and there are other things to do.

But when it comes down to it. Very few if any players can make a living going to tournys, it's hobbie. And this goes for all games and communities. Once people meet some of these people and see what kind of people they are, they are like fuck this, and fuck these selfish pricks with elitist attitudes.

Its def in a downward trend right now because there is no money to be made in big events.

Look at Canada Cup they have closed up shop on doing there big tourny every year, because the owner lost money every year or barely broke even. And these guys did alot to try grow the scene, they even had the 5v5 international SF competition on Cable for anyone to watch.

most people don't see it like I do: when I go to a tourny, I'm basically taking a trip for my hobby. Same as if my hockey team decides to go play in a weekend tourny in another town. It cost us money with no return. But we get to compete with top teams and have a great time doing what we love.

Same goes for Games, I plan trips like a vacation. I get to go compete with the best and have fun doing what I love to do.

Most of the pot monsters would travel thinking they would either win (for some reason everyone thinks they are good at street fighter when they watch streams) or get to know some of the top players and get involved in the hype. They most likely go home dissapointed never to return.

KI numbers for NEC being low are pretty self explanatory. Why would someone want to compete when it just came out and most people can't even get a system yet. Why go play against players that have had early access, have tested, or have written guides. Not to mention no backwards comparability for sticks, having to shell out 200 bucks for a new fightstick to play one game is not going to help that tourny scene. I think KI will do good next year though once the modders figure out how to make old sticks work (I've heard they are close).

The only way tournys will stick around is if they make money. And the only way that happens is if there are bigger sponsers or higher entrant fees. but nobody in the FGC is going to pay 75 and then pay entrance fees into there games of choice, because the attitude is fuck you give it to me free cheep and right now. Look at how Canada Cup was blown up for bringing in paid HD stream, they were one of the first to do it for a fighting game major, and got blown up for it, (fuck you streams should be free attitude) but now everyone does it. But very few people pay.

Look at MLG and why they probably won't try fighting games for another while. Even when MK was there, nobody was going to watch it in the crowd. Hell most of the players that played in the tournys didn't even stick around in the crowd to watch. Fighting games don't appeal to the general public so there is nothing for a big company to sell and there for no reason to sponsor. Unless leagues are made up like in Japan, and things change from the way they are done now, this is the way it will always be. With only a hand full of new players coming into the scene with each new game.

Unless the way tournys are done in general is changed so that they can be profitable, things will not change. And less and less people will go to them. It's just the way it is.

 

[AZ MotherBrain]

Killer Instinct is back

How is this not the golden age?

Because its a free to play console exclusive with a mere six character roster...

 

[Sasarix]

Because its a free to play console exclusive with a mere six character roster...

.. and dynamic sound, new level of mind games, easy barrier for entry, outstanding training mode, runs at 60 fps, will have continued support from both DH and MS, Orchid, best online ever made for a fighter... and all for $20

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

No finishing

There's no finishers in KI??



Also: This year did kind of suck for the FGC, but that's only because 2012 set an almost-impossibly high standard.
Capcom was Capcom, KOF in my opinion completely stole the show at EVO, MK/SC5 had MLG (so did KOF, but from what I remember it really didn't do well), TTT2 dropped and was carved out of stone good even though next to no one plays it now...Injustice was 2013's only real hit up until KI, and in between the patches, Deathstroke, the horrible evolution of troll-based drama and semantics, Scorpion and Superman and the EVO Grand Finals going over like a fart in church, it made for a rather muddy picture. But I firmly believe 2014 is going to be a huge improvement collectively.

 

[Jimmypotato]

Orchid,

SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY MS!!!!!

 

[MorbidAltruism]

Injustice was casual catnip, it was quite successful. I wouldn't say that the FGC is in a detriment, perhaps the competitive scene is, but that is irrelevant as KI and Injustice are selling like crazy. Or in the case of Killer Instinct, it has the lime light. Haha.

 

[GRs_Prince]

There's no finishers in KI??



Also: This year did kind of suck for the FGC, but that's only because 2012 set an almost-impossibly high standard.
Capcom was Capcom, KOF in my opinion completely stole the show at EVO, MK/SC5 had MLG (so did KOF, but from what I remember it really didn't do well), TTT2 dropped and was carved out of stone good even though next to no one plays it now...Injustice was 2013's only real hit up until KI, and in between the patches, Deathstroke, the horrible evolution of troll-based drama and semantics, Scorpion and Superman and the EVO Grand Finals going over like a fart in church, it made for a rather muddy picture. But I firmly believe 2014 is going to be a huge improvement collectively.

As I remember the only finishing move is a boring ass 100 200 combo then supreme victory which is really boring

 

[GRs_Prince]

Killer Instinct has a neutral game that can't be gimmicked out. That's what I love most about it. It forces players to play honestly.

As I said its not a bad game its good and I'm not gonna talk about balance in the first week that's stupid but its looks balanced till now
And being like sf4 a bit means that its not the old ki
And. Finishing moves is what makes ki fun after winning
So yeah my point is still clear for me its just not ki we used 2 play but it is a good game

 

[Flagg]

The success of other genres doesn't help, I mean fps games are massive now.

Fighters, like RTS games is the thinking man's game, however fighters still don't get anywhere near the support that RTS does.

One thing said about Injustice is that it has superior online to most online fighters out there.

People need to get out of this mind set of "il only travel if I have a 99% chance of winning". In the UK, football is massive and people shell out tons on season tickets and travel to watch their team. Only a small handful of teams will be dominate, week in, week out...why can't fighters be the same?

Fighter game pros need to stop being douchebags and putting off newcomers.

It's a number of factors that prevents fighters from growing when there is no real reason why they can't grow.

 

[coolwhip]

'Real rap' though.. I think if you ask the guys like Valle and Shock that were going strong in the real Dark Age for fighting games, they'd probably want to slap you a bit for calling this a Dark Age. I think numbers will go up or down from year to year, but overall the FCG is going strong and there's plenty of room for it to expand as more people find out that it exists.

Twitch on consoles is probably one of the best developments for the FGC since SF4.

What's up with all the slapping recently?

 

[Cossner]

I'm extremely passionate about what you just said


Can u imagine the sales of your video game if on the f ing box it had a sticker that said


"Participate in upcoming tournaments with cash $ pools up to 40,000 for top 8in upcoming months with online qualifiers to win free trips to compete "

Every god damn 8-17 year old would scream at mommy to buy it

So last year I started playing league of legends a bit with a friend, and I noticed that they promote every upcoming event in the splash page when you log into the game. Mind you, I posted this suggestion in Hector's and Paulo's wall, sent them pms, I sent an email to nrs, and spoke to Paulo on a stream chat. I got a "we'll look into it" which obviously meant "idgaf gtfo". This was 2012. So yeah that was fun, but let's be honest here, Injustice sold 1.5mill copies, which is less than half of what mk9 did, and around 99.99% of the people who bought it dropped the game. Why would they care about the .01% who still plays the game? Why would they invest a sizeable amount of money patching 14 or whatever versions there are of the game? Why would they organize a tournament at this point in the life of the game if only a minuscule amount of people would show up?
Lbsh, in Mk a lot of people travelled for the community and the community only, but that's not how you keep a tournament scene alive.

I also don't like all ths big mouth keyboard warriors talking people down for voicing their opinions about the current state of the game, when they can't even be bothered to take a bus to go to a major 2 hours away. It's that shitty attitude.

 

[Justice]

Justice

Motherf......