Strategy Deathstroke Matchup Breakdowns, A Community Effort Week 1: Aquaman

[RM Jonnitti]

Damage is damage man, its perfectly fine the first life bar, the second one you may have to think twice about it.

yeah you gotta take what you can but it seems like if he has trait and you're out of d2 range punishing trident is kinda situational. not only that but if he traits after the 2nd hit wont he block the b3?

 

[NYCj360]

yeah you gotta take what you can but it seems like if he has trait and you're out of d2 range punishing trident is kinda situational

Yes this is true, in which case you gun shot. If you are out of d2 range then chances are you wouldn't be able to punish him with anything other than gunshot anyway.

 

[Mikman360]

yeah i believe it works with trait up, doctrine dark put up a video with it a long time ago showing that mb cancelled moves negate the water of life. I'm not at home to confirm but it should work.

Well shoot, I wasn't even aware of this myself. Sounds legit.

 

[Red Reaper]

Now here's the real reason I think Aquaman has to stay on his toes in this match. DS bullies him pretty hard on HKD. Here's a little trick I'd like people to look into:

When you get a DS combo on Aquaman, end your combo with D1 xx Flip OR 2 xx Flip. After the Flip hits, do 1 dash, and do F3. This beats ALL of his wakeups (barring the super of course). If you try this in training mode, you can set the CPU to "Random" wakeups. It doesn't matter, this F3 will beat every wakeup they try to do, you don't even have to guess.

Of course, Aquaman can block it, but F3 is +10 on block, allowing you to do B1 or B2 for a follow up mixup.

Aquaman CAN backdash this, but of course, there are ways to punish the backdash if you know he will be doing it (such as a Sword Flip for a HKD or Machine Gun for an easy 11%).

Basically, you can keep Aquaman ensnared in a constant 50/50 guessing game from landing just one combo. This is pretty significant.

On top of this, Aquaman is pretty free to jump attack pressure when he gets HKD. Water shield can get him out of this stuff though.

You want to be either full screen or right in Aquaman's face in this matchup. Midscreen is a no-no. Jumping in the neutral game is suicidal.

I think the 23 ender is probably the best on him as it allows you to dash at point blank range if you need to and you still have the option of doing F3 to stop his wake up. If you read a backdash you kan also dash and jump for frame advantage after this ender or dash into F3 to punish him.

Of kourse this has less korner karry.

 

[Red Reaper]

Well shoot, I wasn't even aware of this myself. Sounds legit.

Neither did I. This is useful for more than just Deathstroke..

 

[Mikman360]

I think the 23 ender is probably the best on him as it allows you to dash at point blank range if you need to and you still have the option of doing F3 to stop his wake up. If you read a backdash you kan also dash and jump for frame advantage after this ender or dash into F3 to punish him.

Of kourse this has less korner karry.

It also does less damage overall. I haven't tested it against his wakeups, but being at max range F3 distance is just so good against him. 23 ender puts you in crossup F3 distance, which can confuse him with 50/50 shenanigans of course, but pressure and damage is my goal here.

 

[Red Reaper]

It also does less damage overall. I haven't tested it against his wakeups, but being at max range F3 distance is just so good against him. 23 ender puts you in crossup F3 distance, which can confuse him with 50/50 shenanigans of course, but pressure and damage is my goal here.

It's around the same distance. You just have more time to do stuff off the 23 ender. With the sword flip ender you don't have enough time to get to point blank range and still have the opportunity to jump his wake ups..

Pressure is my goal as well. And this gives you more options to mess with their head.

 

[Red Reaper]

yeah i believe it works with trait up, doctrine dark put up a video with it a long time ago showing that mb cancelled moves negate the water of life. I'm not at home to confirm but it should work.

Didn't work upon my testing. He's still able to block...

 

[Red Reaper]

G4S J360

So are we allowed to make a thread for each match up in our respective forums? I was thinking about doing it for Arrow and/or Martian but I wasn't sure as this would kreate a lot of threads.

Dustloop actually has a dedicated section with 1 thread for each match up on Blazblue which is something I like and was hoping we kould start doing on TYM.

 

[RM Jonnitti]

Yes this is true, in which case you gun shot. If you are out of d2 range then chances are you wouldn't be able to punish him with anything other than gunshot anyway.

he would be able to duck the 2nd hit if he traits. its probably best just not to punish and just create distance.


also i tested before that if he traits you can force him to block MB assault riffle and it wastes the entire trait time. not sure if its worth the bar but its worth considering i guess. since if he traits after trident from a range where guns would be punishable it pushes him out of a range where he can punish them. idk its still a thought thouhg.

 

[NYCj360]

G4S J360

So are we allowed to make a thread for each match up in our respective forums? I was thinking about doing it for Arrow and/or Martian but I wasn't sure as this would kreate a lot of threads.

Dustloop actually has a dedicated section with 1 thread for each match up on Blazblue which is something I like and was hoping we kould start doing on TYM.

Yes as long as it doesn't derail i see no issue with it.

 

[Crathen]

Let's clarify something , using d2 to punish Aquaman is realistically usable only when you block a Trident Scoop point blank , you have to take a slight step forward and d2 ( this goes for b12xxscoop or f1xxscoop ).

You also have the option to use sweep to punish it tho i'd favour d2.

Recently i've digged more on the F3 to d1 frametrap and Aquaman is one of the few characters that can disrespect this backdashing ( or using super ) , this is caused by his particular pushback animation after f3 is blocked.

Not a huge deal since he has to respect b2xxSS OS.

Aquaman players aren't really trying to explain how they play this MU... TRASH OF TYM

 

[Dizzy]

A few things not mentioned from what I saw:

After blocking DS F3, aquaman cannot backdash the B2 combo (whatever the combo that knocks full screen, not b222). However he can trait, hold back, and avoid anything except him sweep, and just look to anti-air if they jump.

DS can punish trident rush and MB trident rush with standing guns or sword flip. These are combo punished if the aquaman pre-emptively traits, though. However, it still is a free punish if their trait is on cooldown.

More general, but aquaman's fastest jump normal is 8f so DS can win an air-to-air whenever he wants to with his J1.

Aquaman is bad on wakeup as long as he doesnt have trait. If he has trait, he can get up for free for the most part. The only thing DS can really do is throw or sweep.

Just some stuff off the top of my head.

 

[Crathen]

A few things not mentioned from what I saw:

After blocking DS F3, aquaman cannot backdash the B2 combo (whatever the combo that knocks full screen, not b222). However he can trait, hold back, and avoid anything except him sweep, and just look to anti-air if they jump.

DS can punish trident rush and MB trident rush with standing guns or sword flip. These are combo punished if the aquaman pre-emptively traits, though. However, it still is a free punish if their trait is on cooldown.

More general, but aquaman's fastest jump normal is 8f so DS can win an air-to-air whenever he wants to with his J1.

Aquaman is bad on wakeup as long as he doesnt have trait. If he has trait, he can get up for free for the most part. The only thing DS can really do is throw or sweep.

Just some stuff off the top of my head.

I've talked about the b2xxSS option select in page 2 , basically you input b2xxSS ( b2 db3 ) so if they don't backdash b2xxSS comes out and if it hits you can HC into MB SS , if they backdash b23 string comes out and catches Aquaman on recovery , so basically DS can input b2 db3 f2 and either have b2xxSS come out or b23f2 if they backdash.

Deathstroke can punish Trident rush only if Aquaman does all the forward dashes , blocks a max range b12xxtrident rush or Aquaman messes up his dashes and end up whiffing the last stabs , things like point blank b12xxTR ( no dashes ) aren't punishable. It's still very good to know.

I'm ok with the A2A info , but it's way easier to AA Aquaman using j1 / j2 with d2 ( it actually beats it clean 90% of the time , super reliable ) , when Aquaman starts using j3 then yes a2a j1 wins easily ( or simply sword flip ).

Aqua on wakeup is still free to j3s and f3 after certain SF long hdk setups , even if he traits he's getting juggled by j3 or f3 and if he blocks DS is still at advantage with all his pressure options.

 

[Vagrant]

Aquaman is bad on wakeup as long as he doesnt have trait. If he has trait, he can get up for free for the most part. The only thing DS can really do is throw or sweep.

Even with trait in the corner I'm pretty sure he still has to guess between f3/crossup f3 .

 

[Mikman360]

Didn't work upon my testing. He's still able to block...

I tested and know why. It's because 3 xx MB B3 doesn't combo on anyone lol.

 

[Crathen]

Nah any string into the f3 ( or b3 ) cancel doesn't work as a punish if he traits up , he can always block it.

 

[Red Reaper]

I tested and know why. It's because 3 xx MB B3 doesn't combo on anyone lol.

LOL!

I tested it with Arrow first though. So even if this wasn't the kase, I don't think MB kancels work to beat Aquamain's trait...

 

[coolwhip]

Even with trait in the corner I'm pretty sure he still has to guess between f3/crossup f3 .

Correct.

 

[Dizzy]

Oh I think if Aquaman traits during wakeup, it lasts long enough for him so that if he stand blocks F3, then the trait will still be active if he tries to 50/50 off the advantage. I'm just going off memory on this one.

It's almost always best to stand block against DS when you trait for this reason. The only reason to ever low block with trait active is if you somehow feel like getting good at fuzzying the sweep so there is no mixup at all.

 

[Crathen]

Oh I think if Aquaman traits during wakeup, it lasts long enough for him so that if he stand blocks F3, then the trait will still be active if he tries to 50/50 off the advantage. I'm just going off memory on this one.

It's almost always best to stand block against DS when you trait for this reason. The only reason to ever low block with trait active is if you somehow feel like getting good at fuzzying the sweep so there is no mixup at all.

I have midscreen setups after max height SF that involve ambiguos J3 ( like b1u2 f3 d2 j2 f23xxSF double dash no delay j3 fake crossup / delayed j3 crossup ) that nullify pre emptive trait , it's just nobody uses it.

But yeah pre emptive trait after f3 avoids most hi low mixups , there are some gimmicks to throw him off ( such as b2xxMB lgs / gs , simply going for another f3 , throw and so on ) so in a real game it doesn't worry me that much to feel Aqua has an edge over DS.

 

[Dizzy]

I have midscreen setups after max height SF that involve ambiguos J3 ( like b1u2 f3 d2 j2 f23xxSF double dash no delay j3 fake crossup / delayed j3 crossup ) that nullify pre emptive trait , it's just nobody uses it.

But yeah pre emptive trait after f3 avoids most hi low mixups , there are some gimmicks to throw him off ( such as b2xxMB lgs / gs , simply going for another f3 , throw and so on ) so in a real game it doesn't worry me that much to feel Aqua has an edge over DS.

Interesting. As many know I don't actively play anymore so I haven't seen much of the new tech. I never thought it was a match in Aquas favor though. If anyone said it was slight edge in eithers favor I wouldn't disagree with them though.

 

[Crathen]

Just a vid of the setup , this works pretty well on most of the cast , the crossup version is also safe from most anti crossup wakeups ( ala Batgirl Smokebomb , not lighting cage tho you can safejump that ) , there are ender variations ( 12xxSF mainly ) that set up different spacing and HDK advantage , it's matchup specific stuff that i'll share when we'll discuss those particular MUs.

G4S J360
Vagrant
@DSplayers

 

[Duck Nation]

Plus there's always the classic flying ninja setup.

 

[RM Jonnitti]

in regards to stuffing wakeups with b1/b2, what exactly is the timing like? right now i find that if i whiff the first hit of b1u2 or b222 that they end up stuffing out scoop, but i cant seem have enough time to do that if i end m combo with 12flip.