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"You're Fired!" -- Joker General Discussion Thread

OnlineRon91

OnlineRon91

Joker++
Joker's Acid Blossom range is still stance dependent.

Left Side Back Stance > Left Side Front Stance
Right Side Front Stance > Right Side Back Stance
Left Side Back Stance = Right Side Front Stance
Left Side Front Stance = Right Side Back Stance

You might say, hmm, does it REALLY matter? Yes, yes it does. It means Acid Blossom will whiff at the beginning of the match vs. Superman for example, as oppose to hitting him if we were in Back Stance. Redic.
 
Fromundaman

Fromundaman

I write too much.
I'm going to move this into this thread since I don't want to clutter up the matchup thread, but I was messing with the B3>J2>21 (First slash)>Far teeth set up yesterday and had not realized how good it actually is against people with non-mobile wakeups.

They can in fact tech roll then backdash to get out of this, but tech roll into a delayed wakeup gets hit by the teeth still.

That said, if after the teeth you do a ji3 instead of blocking you get:

1) Cross up hard to blockable if they try to neutral stand or neutral wakeup (Wakeups get turned the wrong way so if you cross up early enough you shouldn't get hit, even by things like Lantern's Might. Haven't tested it but I think you'd probably trade with Lightning Cage though.).

2) Same scenario applies to tech rolls, except tech roll wakeups will trade with teeth. Depending on the matchup that can be advantageous or not.

3) This catches tech roll backdash, but it does so out of teeth range, so you have to convert with D2>MB DB2>B3>however you want to end that.



Unfortunately, this set up is considerably less effective against people with slides or other mobile wakeups.
 
KonDcnT

KonDcnT

KonDcnT
Can't you just down parry the slide and train your opponent not to slide wake up? Kept a green arrow honest last night with that. Granted teeth will knock you both down, but they still catch damage.
 
Fromundaman

Fromundaman

I write too much.
KonDcnT said:
Can't you just down parry the slide and train your opponent not to slide wake up? Kept a green arrow honest last night with that. Granted teeth will knock you both down, but they still catch damage.
Click to expand...
Not certain, but truly not worth it. KF's slide has too much invulnerability to be parried for the 1st half of the move, and Batman's slide you're better off just blocking then punishing. GA's I have no idea about.

The thing is that with moving wakeups like slide, the j3 crossup won't hit AND they'll get out of teeth, meaning you can no longer cover every option at once and have to actually guess what they'll do.
Blocking or MB F3 will blow up slide wakeups, but if they instead do a tech roll>backdash or tech roll>low block then they get out of it. You can wait and gunshot if you see a tech roll, but they'll still get out for free with a tech roll>low block.
If you do j3 to prevent tech roll backdash, then they can use their moving wakeup to get out.

It's still not a *bad* setup against those characters, but not as good as Crowbar setups IMO, whereas against people with immobile wakeups it pretty much destroys them.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
KonDcnT said:
Can't you just down parry the slide and train your opponent not to slide wake up? Kept a green arrow honest last night with that. Granted teeth will knock you both down, but they still catch damage.
Click to expand...
her slide in unparriable and its a horrible idea to try to parry this move on reaction when its 30% into a vortex
 
StevoSuprem0

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
Yeah, you're better off jumping back and going into j2-> full combo punish. Parry is risky and only gonna net you 11% and a HA, while you're risking potentially a full bar if you guess the vortex wrong a couple of times.
 
OnlineRon91

OnlineRon91

Joker++
What's up with Lex Luthors 112? Its mid, mid, overhead, but I can duck the mids and parry the overhead. These mids bro.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
theyre not mids on small hitbox chars

you can duck 11 and full combo the overhead before it comes out
 
OnlineRon91

OnlineRon91

Joker++
Yea your right, what's your starter? I guess 3 can work since their overhead is 24 frames right?

Yo you do not know how much I wish counter-hits were a mechanic in this game. It would make countering and frame traps so delicious.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
OnlineRon91 said:
Yea your right, what's your starter? I guess 3 can work since their overhead is 24 frames right?

Yo you do not know how much I wish counter-hits were a mechanic in this game. It would make countering and frame traps so delicious.
Click to expand...
yep, even mb f3 works if you want it unbreakable
 
Crathen

Crathen

Death is my business
Probably i'm very late to the party but has there been any discussion on using b2 in conjunction with teeth?

I was thinking that if you can lay down the teeth then b2 and the knockdown from b2 will make them bounce on the teeth for a juggle state.

Probably it's best suited for setups but i don't really play Joker so i could be unaware of some good situation where it can be used.

example: teeth b2 ( hits ) opponent gets popped up by the teeth explosion -> j2 32 acid blossom for 35%

Randomly thought this and just wanted to know if this was already explored
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Crathen said:
Probably i'm very late to the party but has there been any discussion on using b2 in conjunction with teeth?

I was thinking that if you can lay down the teeth then b2 and the knockdown from b2 will make them bounce on the teeth for a juggle state.

Probably it's best suited for setups but i don't really play Joker so i could be unaware of some good situation where it can be used.

example: teeth b2 ( hits ) opponent gets popped up by the teeth explosion -> j2 32 acid blossom for 35%

Randomly thought this and just wanted to know if this was already explored
Click to expand...
b2 is slower than internet B.C
 
Crathen

Crathen

Death is my business
Qwark28 said:
b2 is slower than internet B.C
Click to expand...

Well 25 frames is still faster than 32 frames f3 and blocking low is what everybody wants to do vs him , usually when a teeth is under their character they're just looking to block low and fuzzy b13 , b2 is less noticeable and the b2 animation isn't much different than his b1 startup animation.

Any good advantage hard knockdowns to set this up?
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Crathen said:
Well 25 frames is still faster than 32 frames f3 and blocking low is what everybody wants to do vs him , usually when a teeth is under their character they're just looking to block low and fuzzy b13 ,

Any good advantage hard knockdowns to set this up?
Click to expand...
that happens way less than you think
 
OnlineRon91

OnlineRon91

Joker++
Crathen said:
Well 25 frames is still faster than 32 frames f3 and blocking low is what everybody wants to do vs him , usually when a teeth is under their character they're just looking to block low and fuzzy b13 , b2 is less noticeable and the b2 animation isn't much different than his b1 startup animation.

Any good advantage hard knockdowns to set this up?
Click to expand...

Hey man, thanks for your input :) Always nice to get other people involved.

The only hard knockdown that will allow you to safely get Chattering Teeth out and be at enough range for b2 is 213 in the corner.

In the corner this move because a great asset if you don't have the meter for mb f3 because you can use your setup and instead of finishing with flower, finishing with crowbar for some really nasty 50/50 OTG's or mb crowbar / 213 to repeat the same process.

Of course, don't forget invincible wake-ups, which for the most part make the setup irrelevant :(
 
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