Gilbagz
Joker here~
Hmmm which set up is this?You got some cool things there, but I don't understand how you make your opponent respect your options so hard if they can poke you when you throw teeth, and than jump attack.
Hmmm which set up is this?You got some cool things there, but I don't understand how you make your opponent respect your options so hard if they can poke you when you throw teeth, and than jump attack.
Wow I don't remember, I'm not even sure that they can do it, I'm just talking about my experience with Joker (just learned his basics and tried him online to see what I need to improve)Hmmm which set up is this?
ahhh. Well his wake up set ups (if you're using proper ones) come down to waking up or not waking up in most cases. Its character specific and some characters you have options to be safe against the wake up too. But in general you just need to make them scared to wake up.Wow I don't remember, I'm not even sure that they can do it, I'm just talking about my experience with Joker (just learned his basics and tried him online to see what I need to improve)
Thanks, will take more time than I thought to learn him. Oh well, I got some hours to spare (not going to drop Injustice anywhere soon)ahhh. Well his wake up set ups (if you're using proper ones) come down to waking up or not waking up in most cases. Its character specific and some characters you have options to be safe against the wake up too. But in general you just need to make them scared to wake up.
In the neutral game, you make them scared to poke by using push block. Once they respect the push block it opens up your other options. But again there are a lot of levels to the mind game and the neutral game teeth set ups don't work on all characters.
The main neutral game teeth set up is 2,1,2 far teethThanks, will take more time than I thought to learn him. Oh well, I got some hours to spare (not going to drop Injustice anywhere soon)
Push block into his teeth- should I use close,mid range, or far chattering teeth?
I'm interested in the clowns lately (Harley, she's fun as hell), and Joker is really interesting as well, but I'm struggling with his Chattering Teeth special attack, can you link me to some good matches? (yours or good tournament players)
Damn, that was a heartbreaker lol. Good play though. Few things:This isnt one of my best matches and neither are the other two vids on the finest fighters youtube channel but here you go. Let me know what you guys think.
just the fact you used corp charge means your number at 2-4 frames offHey guys
Took a break from studying today and did some frame data mining
Qwark28, what was your data on j3 again?
From what I could find
insta j3 is minimum -7, was getting punished by reversal corps charge
j3 at the max height is +1-2~ (standing 1 could not beat out corps charge but d1 could)
j3 at the optimal height +5-6~
j3 at the deepest point +12~ (j3 into 2,1,2 was a frame trap and there was no gap at all for reversal corp charge to even come out. Standing 3 was also beating out corps charge)
Some other stuff I found
- on green lantern, cross up j2 from any range. Standing 2 and standing 3 always connect. There were a few instances where standing 2 whiffed, but these incidents were few and far between.
So this stuff with 2 and 3 whiffing after blocking a ranged cross up j2 is character specific. We should get a list of the characters it whiffs on to help figure out match ups.
I know it whiffs on catwoman for sure. (may just be the characters that 2,1,2 whiffs on. I'll test more thorougly after my exam period)
Also found a way to punish/escape sinestro's vortex on a read.
Universal in application, but our punish does get punished once sinestro catches on. Might be able to confirm and then go for the punish, but it depends on your reactions and ability to visually confirm.
Edit: Also I can help with cleaning up the combo thread and stuff after my exam period finishes on the 18th.
Day 1 TechHey guys
Took a break from studying today and did some frame data mining
Qwark28, what was your data on j3 again?
From what I could find
insta j3 is minimum -7, was getting punished by reversal corps charge
j3 at the max height is +1-2~ (standing 1 could not beat out corps charge but d1 could)
j3 at the optimal height +5-6~
j3 at the deepest point +12~ (j3 into 2,1,2 was a frame trap and there was no gap at all for reversal corp charge to even come out. Standing 3 was also beating out corps charge)
Some other stuff I found
- on green lantern, cross up j2 from any range. Standing 2 and standing 3 always connect. There were a few instances where standing 2 whiffed, but these incidents were few and far between.
So this stuff with 2 and 3 whiffing after blocking a ranged cross up j2 is character specific. We should get a list of the characters it whiffs on to help figure out match ups.
I know it whiffs on catwoman for sure. (may just be the characters that 2,1,2 whiffs on. I'll test more thorougly after my exam period)
Also found a way to punish/escape sinestro's vortex on a read.
Universal in application, but our punish does get punished once sinestro catches on. Might be able to confirm and then go for the punish, but it depends on your reactions and ability to visually confirm.
Edit: Also I can help with cleaning up the combo thread and stuff after my exam period finishes on the 18th.
Ok assuming you are correct and you travel time into accountjust the fact you used corp charge means your number at 2-4 frames off
corp charge has travel time
J3 deep as possible =17-18
instant J3 = -3
max height = +4
J3 at a height during which is beats AA unless preemptively done = +5
this advantage only applies from moves with 0-2 travel time at this specific angle and at 6 frames
which means that on everyone else we are at least 3-6f more + on everything.
deep J3 can be from anywhere, not just jump range.Ok assuming you are correct and you travel time into account
If corp charge has 6f start up and including the time to travel, it would take 8-10 frames to connect
the fact that this was punishing my insta j3 means insta jump 3 would be -8 to -10 then~
So going from my numbers everything should be even more negative
Max Height, -1 to -3~
Optimal Height, +1 to +2~
Deep j3, +8 to +9~
And for deep j3 this shouldnt even travel time shouldnt even affect it because deep j3 into 2,1,2 is a true block string. There is zero gap for the reversal to even begin coming up out. Therefore it must me minimum +12 so that the 11f standing 2 connects while they are still in block stun.
Also I don't believe you need to take travel time in this case because the distance is so minute. Lex already travels far enough during the start up to punish, only for longer distances do we need to consider travel time.
Also im not sure what you mean by having frame advantage that only applies in this specific case.
Frame advantage/disadvantage is fixed for the most part (unless you alter the timing like in this case with j3). The numbers are set, the only thing that changes is what the opponent is capable of because of their own frame data. Moves wont magically become more plus because someone doesnt have a 6f advancing special.
I think i know what your saying but you're understanding of frame data is a bit off, at least in this case.
ahhh right i get what your sayingdeep J3 can be from anywhere, not just jump range.
corps charge is 6f the second it starts, any travel time after it is extra frames, max distance corp charge is like 10-12, any travel time at all is frames lost
what I mean by saying jump ins are more plus is that this only applies to corp charge and flying uppercut and assuming they are willing to do it
vs other moves we have priority because they arent 6f advancing specials which means its like we actually are that +, they cannot do anything to negate that.
i usually gunshot from max J3ahhh right i get what your saying
from max jump 3 range, nothing connects anyway so having the plus frames there doesn't really mean much for us.
and yes your right I get what your saying. its similar to mk where if you didnt have a 6f poke, its like everything johnny cage did was positive since his 6f d1 would always beat out your options, creating the illusion of frame advantage even though he was at neutral.
max j3 on blockAny reason to not just go for far teeth on a max distance j3? If they don't tech it (which is often the case against a j3 connecting), it is a somewhat decent setup in most matchups until they start back dashing. Or are you just going for wall carry?
Doesn't d2 xx crowbar whiff (that is, d2 hit then crowbar whiffs) or is that just space dependent?max j3 on block
ppl always tech j3 on hit, i just dash in and jump in or d2 crowbar the tech
its depending on if they jump or crouch but when i d2 crowbar i do it because i know itl be blocked or i wanna be extra safe and not at -12Doesn't d2 xx crowbar whiff (that is, d2 hit then crowbar whiffs) or is that just space dependent?