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Breakthrough Martian Manhunter gets 39% of damage from a safe teleport.

Does this combo bother you?

  • Yes. Too much damage from a safe attack.

    Votes: 89 58.9%

  • No. The combo is perfectly balanced.

    Votes: 62 41.1%
  • Total voters
    151
M2Dave

M2Dave

Zoning Master
StevoSuprem0 said:
Anyone else makes threads like this and they are closed without hesitation. "Breakthrough" tag on day 1 combo with bullshit poll... obviously a troll, but because it's this asshat, it's allowed. Sigh... you're better than this TYM.
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Oh, shut up, you fool.

The last 3-4 threads that I made were closed because butt hurt fools like you keep reporting me to the moderators.
 
NRF CharlieMurphy

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
Mr Aquaman said:
its mb b3-able, every mixup that leads to 45% with aquaman is safe, my godsmack is unblockable that leads to 50. doomsday even gets 40% off a low launcher thats safe. just say the whole game is retarded, which it is.
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this is the correct answer to this thread.

we are done here.

A FG should not be based on SAFE 50/50 guessing. The only true way to punish someone is to basically catch them off guard, or expose a setup that they aren't aware/prepared for.

Every other game I can think of has risk/reward.... but not this one. This one is based on pure guessing and the "just fucking do it until it works" mentality. This is what turns off a ton of players. The games best characters face no consequences for "just fucking doing it"

Once you figure that out, and start using it ... you'll understand what Mr A is saying here.

Let us all pretend this wasn't Dave who posted. Lets pretend ..... Slips posted it. I do not see such idiotic responses. Now lets pretend Paulo himself posted it.
yeah. I know you're sitting there saying "i'd type the same thing... blah blah"
no you wouldn't.
I'm not a big m2dave fan myself. The guy is on the "I don't go to tourney's and i am apparently an authority on things" guy. But his words sometimes make sense.
This is one of those times.
 
Vulcan Hades

Vulcan Hades

Champion
Mixups that you can't really react to are annoying but they've always been around. They are a part of fighting games. However the problem for many comes when the best 50/50s are also better than -1 and highly rewarding.

Usually the slower overheads are always comboable and lead to better rewards because they are reactable and so they require you to condition the opponent to land them. But they are also unsafe due to their very high reward. And on the other hand the very fast/unreactable overheads are usually safe on block but lead to a very small reward or no combo at all because of their greater effectiveness. This is true in most fighting games I play except Injustice.

Let's not fool ourselves, these safe mixups are only acceptable because of the pushblock and MB B3 mechanic. In a game without alpha counters or breakers of some sort it would be considered pretty bad design to have unreactable and safe or adv overhead/low mixups that lead into 30-40% and into the same guessing situation.

Where Injustice fails for me is in the way they designed the risk vs reward for some of these mixups. Killer Frost's Slide is acceptable I feel because it's a negative on block move with no pushback and it's easily baitable. If you block it, you can reverse the pressure, bait her parry or at minimum kill her momentum and go back to neutral. However things like Flash, WW and others being +6 on block after a 50/50 OTG is pretty silly. It's a knockdown setup where the reward = 40+% and the risk = +6 on block into a safe 50/50. You can't check them, you can't reversal, you can't even MB B3 or backdash, you are forced to guess a second time right after having guessed right the first time. Fuck me right.

Yes, there are a bunch of High reward vs Lower reward moves in this game. I think it's a first for me because I'm used to fighting games where every read comes with a chance of failing. Where taking risks is required, even if that risk is being slightly negative so that I can't continue to pressure or having to respect my opponent's defensive/escape options. I'm just not used to being +6 jail stagger + wake up denied when I guess wrong. Hopefully I'll get used to it with time. But I probably won't.


NRS please don't fuck up MK10. :coffee:
 
Deyrax

Deyrax

Skarlet who ?
Mr Aquaman said:
its mb b3-able, every mixup that leads to 45% with aquaman is safe, my godsmack is unblockable that leads to 50. doomsday even gets 40% off a low launcher thats safe. just say the whole game is retarded, which it is.
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The ammount of fail in this post is way too much to handle. Comparing slow ass telegraphed moves to shit like teleports with variations but with same animations ? Zoidberg's syndrome of MB B3 ? Oh, you also forgot "just walk forward, bro" #theoryfightingforlyfe
 
Duck Nation

Duck Nation

Dicks with a future
All the people trying to theory fight over how a game "should" be are really completely missing what this thread is about, if anything - it doesn't matter what you feel the design theory is, it matters how MMH operates in this ecosystem. The safe way to block all of his ranged offense is to hold back, and he's going to be just as happy as a clam if you do that. He has decent control of the screen at all times, and while he lacks things like tracking projectiles and whatnot there are definitely characters who have poor answers to the crap he does. Suggestions like "just walk forward" or "mb b3 it" gloss over that at best, some people can't hurt him any worse than he can hurt them for trying it, and the ball is always going to be in his court with his zoning options and teleport options. Taking damage, spending a bar and maybe not even being able to break what MMH could get in terms of damage or advantage when he doesn't even have to spend bar or have trait is just... backwards. Zod, as people have brought up, has some of the same stuff going on, but even then, he at least depends on his trait being active. MMH just needs to do it and hit confirm.
 
JDM

JDM

Warrior
Mr. Mileena said:
Zod gets free Interactable damage with Trait. Zod gets full screen pressure, mixups, etc. with trait. Zod makes you respect him hella with trait. Zod can run away and zone you without trait, and stronger with trait. Zod eliminated my jumping game especially with trait. Zod is safe on one of his stupid ass charges.

Zod makes me rage, and you don't see me posting threads about how stupid he is.


MMH is stupid, and so is Zod. Cry about your own character for a change. This gets old Dave
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Seriously. Everyone whines on TYM constantly this crap is annoying as ****.
 
Owerbart

Owerbart

I miss you
I still need more exp against MMHs, this is really out of the topic, but Zod is not an Overpowered or even a top tier character.
 
Vulcan Hades

Vulcan Hades

Champion
I know what the thread is about. But I also know that m2dave created it so I'm purposely being slightly off topic but not entirely. :)

About MMH's safe fullscreen 50/50 tele:

Well first, since it's a fullscreen safe 50/50 then I think we can all agree it's WAY cheaper than KF's Slide and Scorpion's nerfed teleport. But is it as cheap as Superman's F23? That is the ultimate question.

The answer to beat MMH teleport seems to be "holding forward for a 50/50 chance of taking 40% or landing 30%". Now that sounds strangely familiar to Superman's F23 where the answer was to "guess a D1 and put your life bar on the line". But at the same time MMH can't really loop his teleports can he? So it's not really a constant trap, it's just a super annoying 50/50 that you have to deal with all the time anywhere on the screen. It's complete bullshit.. manageable bullshit, but bullshit nonetheless. That said MMH is still way more hype to watch than Superman despite being a total bitch.

Should we nerf hype for the sake of balance or should we embrace imbalance for the sake of hype? Hmm... that is quite the conundrum. Are we in contradiction with ourselves if we choose not to normalize? Should REO's main be on the same tier as m2dave's main? Should Pig be the only one allowed to create troll threads? Should Slips apologize for downplaying Scorpion? Should I stop babbling nonsense and stop wasting everyone's time? So many questions, so little time to answer them.

tl;dr: Fuck this I'm going to sleep.
 
CptXecution

CptXecution

Brain Dead Bro
Deyrax said:
The ammount of fail in this post is way too much to handle. Comparing slow ass telegraphed moves to shit like teleports with variations but with same animations ? Zoidberg's syndrome of MB B3 ? Oh, you also forgot "just walk forward, bro" #theoryfightingforlyfe
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So much fail that EVERYTHING he said in that post is true....?

Mr Aquaman great theory fighting brah....you must do terrible at tournam..... oh wait.
 
1man3letters

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
General M2Dave as stated in the thread by LaR MMH can also get 43% 1 bar from his overhead tele not just 39%, u should update the op to reflect that :)

also i didnt see anyone mention that theres times were u block the overhead teleport cross up and the pushback doesnt reserve into you.

to the people saying walk forward, to you i say fuck off.you wanted scorpion banned for having to do that and instead of mmh having a hellfire to check you doing that he has another teleport that gives a combo,not 6% and you cant even "just hold own bro" against mmh lol. mb b3/f3 is only counter that works everytime unlike dashing or walking.
only thing i really have a problem about the tele is its massive sideways hitbox,scorpions tele gets beat out by a number of things,body splashes,j1/j2 of good few character etc etc,mmhs doesnt have this issue but im guessing the trade off is its way worse on whiff,besides the sideways hitbox i think its ok.

also on that subject hmmm whats another thing people wanted scorpion banned for? that he controls interactables, mmh has the same anti interactables tools AND hes a power character.

i wouldnt be surprized when paulo was making mmh he was thinking, "oh you want to ban a character i designed in the 1st week of release, i bet if i give the same and/or better shit to a character that you all breaking balls to have in the game no one will say shit"

in all seriousness though i still dont think mmh is best in game with 0 bad mus like been trotted round here a bit lately
 
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