Guide Azarath, Metrion, Zinthos -- Raven General Discussion Thread

[Sami]

Just in case anyone tries to tag me in anything, I'll on holiday for 2 weeks and won't be checking TYM. That's what I've been promising myself anyway...

 

[afrozilla86]

Enjoy your holiday

 

[juicepouch]

Hey guys, just wondering if anybody could give me some advice when it comes to fighting Raven? I ran into a guy gamertagged AlextheGREAT (or something, he was good) who just completely blew me up with Raven and it occurred to me that I just don't know how to approach the matchup at all. Seems like everything I do gets me soul crushed or lifted unless I can land a knockdown with my shazam. Opinions?

 

[Zoidberg747]

Hey guys, just wondering if anybody could give me some advice when it comes to fighting Raven? I ran into a guy gamertagged AlextheGREAT (or something, he was good) who just completely blew me up with Raven and it occurred to me that I just don't know how to approach the matchup at all. Seems like everything I do gets me soul crushed or lifted unless I can land a knockdown with my shazam. Opinions?

Well the good thing is once you knock her down it is harder for her to get up.

She can punish any dashes or whiffed moves with soul crush, so you cant just throw those out. Lift will only hit you if you jump in or you try to follow up your offense after an unsafe string.

As shazam you basically want to try and knock her down(MB Torpedo could be good here) and keep her in his oki game.

It is probably really bad for Shazam though.

 

[juicepouch]

Well the good thing is once you knock her down it is harder for her to get up.

She can punish any dashes or whiffed moves with soul crush, so you cant just throw those out. Lift will only hit you if you jump in or you try to follow up your offense after an unsafe string.

As shazam you basically want to try and knock her down(MB Torpedo could be good here) and keep her in his oki game.

It is probably really bad for Shazam though.

I pretty much resorted to just walking and crouching, because soul crush ripped me out of Torpedo and Tele any time I tried either, dash as well. I don't think it's quite horrible though, because the few times I did get in I managed to open Raven up pretty decently.

It makes me sad I can't jump because jumping in is one of the only ways I feel I can get in without getting ripped apart for it.

Looks like I'll just have to level up my patience to contend here

 

[ELC]

Thinking of picking up Raven as a sub for CW against Aquaman and Batman. Any tips on how to go about those two MUs?

 

[Blind_Ducky]

Thinking of picking up Raven as a sub for CW against Aquaman and Batman. Any tips on how to go about those two MUs?

Aquaman beats her 6-4 and batman is 5-5 might be 6-4 Raven after the patch. Also isn't cat woman going to do way better vs batman after the patch?

 

[ELC]

Aquaman beats her 6-4 and batman is 5-5 might be 6-4 Raven after the patch. Also isn't cat woman going to do way better vs batman after the patch?

4-6 is better than 3-7/2-8. And it looks like you're right bout the Bats MU, but it still looks pretty tricky meterless. Have to wait til 10-1 though lol

 

[Blind_Ducky]

4-6 is better than 3-7/2-8. And it looks like you're right bout the Bats MU, but it still looks pretty tricky meterless. Have to wait til 10-1 though lol

Well then give Raven a try if you'd like. That's only like 3 days away.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Aquaman beats her 6-4 and batman is 5-5 might be 6-4 Raven after the patch. Also isn't cat woman going to do way better vs batman after the patch?

Not as good as Raven will

ELC

Aquaman: Dont bother with demon stance too much in this MU. Always be in soul crush distance in case he goes for FTD, then punish. Otherwise dont bother with soul crush as it gives him two free dashes. Just pelt him with shadow ravens and make him come to you. He outfootsies with his normals but you can still check him with b23. Pretty much just a matter of frustrating him enough where he makes mistakes.

Batman: Similar to Aqua. Shadow ravens can build you meter and keep him out. Once he pulls out bats you need to wait and let him get his free approach. Then when he tries his J2 shenanigans just push block and repeat the process. Or if he goes with b23 just block the last hit and soul crush him when he recovers.


Those are the most basic breakdowns of both those MUs. Obviously you will have to learn the little things yourself.

 

[Owerbart]

I can't stop thinking that Raven is the character flying waaay under the radar.

 

[kabelfritz]

I can't stop thinking that Raven is the character flying waaay under the radar.

sometimes i feel like that too. but sometimes i also feel like shes the worst character in the game. the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

 

[Sami]

Unless some new dirty tech is discovered she remains pretty well balanced. There are very few MUs that are free and and very few that are extremely difficult. If she actually had some tools for dealing with advancing armour (especially when it gets increased to 2 hits) then she would be even closer to being balanced.

In addition, Injustice is very much a game of extremes (full-screen zoning or point-blank pressure and 50/50s). Raven sits in the middle, which is why sometimes it feels like she has nothing over the other characters, but then you remember that she wins by playing her own game. The middle range is hers - always just out of reach for the rushdown characters or just that little bit too close for comfort for keep-away characters. Unless you can braindead your way on top of her and commence 50/50s with impunity.

 

[Owerbart]

Sami what problems do you have with multi-hit armor characters? Raven's zoning is always just one hit, so if Catwoman or Doomsday had 1, 2, or 99 hits of armor it would remain exactly the same for us, I believe. In fact, Raven is so resilient that even those HUGE buffs to Doomsday and Catwoman does not affect her that much

 

[Blind_Ducky]

Sami what problems do you have with multi-hit armor characters? Raven's zoning is always just one hit, so if Catwoman or Doomsday had 1, 2, or 99 hits of armor it would remain exactly the same for us, I believe. In fact, Raven is so resilient that even those HUGE buffs to Doomsday and Catwoman does not affect her that much

Exactly what I've been saying. The armor buffs don't change the mu in the slightest bit.

 

[Sami]

Sami what problems do you have with multi-hit armor characters? Raven's zoning is always just one hit, so if Catwoman or Doomsday had 1, 2, or 99 hits of armor it would remain exactly the same for us, I believe. In fact, Raven is so resilient that even those HUGE buffs to Doomsday and Catwoman does not affect her that much

To be fair I am being slightly dramatic over it. The only real impact it had is that it made fullscreen charges harder to deal with, i.e. a character using their armour to pass through a projectile full-screen still can't be hit out of the charge by something as they're about to land on top of you. Very rare it happens in practice, but as I said I'm being dramatic as I fucking hate advancing armour lol.

 

[TarkatanDentist]

Unless some new dirty tech is discovered she remains pretty well balanced. There are very few MUs that are free and and very few that are extremely difficult.

Are there any match-ups that are extremely difficult? :/ Doomsday is probably her worst, and even that's not too horrific.

I can genuinely see Raven ending up upper-middle tier somewhere down the line. Probably not top 10, but somewhere just outside it.

 

[Sami]

To expand a little: Raven had very limited options for dealing with advancing one-hit armour. Most times she could do nothing to stop the opponent from getting in, but occasionally she could catch people trying to armour through frame traps at the wrong moment. That has now gone completely for moves that got 2 hits of armour, as both parts of the frame trap will be armoured through.

In addition, the best keep-away tool Raven had was abusing the crap out of the roomba in Halls of Justice. That trick too can now be easily countered by advancing two-hit armour*. Only way to avoid that is to somehow setup a frame trap at the moment the roomba will be passing through to try and get them with 3 hits.

Basically, she went from very limited options to dealing with those moves to none what so ever. Doesn't change the MU, and the MU was shit to begin with . As I said, I'm being slightly dramatic about how much it hurt her, but that doesn't change the fact that in those bad MUs she went from ocasionally being able to counter the armour to never being able to.


* (yes they will take a chunk of damage getting in)

 

[Zoidberg747]

MB B3 still beats out multi-armor moves

 

[Jackal904]

MB B3 still beats out multi-armor moves

Yeah but only on a read. You might be able to react to DD's shoulder charge if he does it far away.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Yeah but only on a read. You might be able to react to DD's shoulder charge if he does it far away.

Depends on the move

 

[Sami]

Woot PC edition announced, I can finally play this properly again. Going to be soooooooooooooooo rusty when I do :'(

 

[Blind_Ducky]

If a projectile is reflected it might be possible to punish it after you recover from the reflect. The only character I've tested so far is batman. If his batarangs are reflected at really close range he can be punished with lift or soul crush. This isn't that useful because of how close batman has to throw the batarang. Hopefully this concept ends up being useful for Raven though.

 

[Jackal904]

If a projectile is reflected it might be possible to punish it after you recover from the reflect. The only character I've tested so far is batman. If his batarangs are reflected at really close range he can be punished with lift or soul crush. This isn't that useful because of how close batman has to throw the batarang. Hopefully this concept ends up being useful for Raven though.

What about air projectiles like lanterns rockets, harleys guns, and wingdings? It's not uncommon for those projectiles to be used relatively close, and they're easier to read.

 

[Blind_Ducky]

What about air projectiles like lanterns rockets, harleys guns, and wingdings? It's not uncommon for those projectiles to be used relatively close, and they're easier to read.

Have not tested everything yet.