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Something that SERIOUSLY bothers me...

CrimsonShadow

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
TKT ZigZag said:
Tournament places should not matter at all, I use Mustard as an example, He placed I think 3rd in a Major here in the UK with Bane, Bane is no way top 10 sorry, He's pretty damn good tbh, but not Top 10, Tournaments are the smallest factor if not at all a factor to do with tier lists...
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But lets say (hypothetically) he placed 3rd at two different stacked US majors with Bane, and then someone else made Top 8 with bane after that -- would it be completely crazy to start entertaining the idea that Bane might be better than people originally thought? :p

I don't think either "results never matter, only theory" or "only results matter, never theory" is correct.. I think you need both and they both help balance each other out.

Like rev0ver and khaotik, they both help to fill... in... each other's... ho-- ok, nevermind.
 
RWDY Nori

RWDY Nori

MK is kinda dope
CrimsonShadow said:
But lets say (hypothetically) he placed 3rd at two different stacked US majors with Bane, and then someone else made Top 8 with bane after that -- would it be completely crazy to start entertaining the idea that Bane might be better than people thought? :p

I don't think either "results never matter, only theory" or "only results matter, never theory" is correct.. I think you need both and they both help balance each other out.
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Bane is for sure better than people give him credit for, but nobody in their right mind will look at the entire roster, all the chars and what they can do, and put Bane top 10. Matchups are theory based, especially in a game out since only april. Just because people are putting a certain char beats a certain char, doesn't mean it's impossible for that char to win.

The major problem w/this community is people reacting before thinking. Nobody truly takes the time to realize (a small percentage of people) that it's very possible that Wonder Woman is the best char in the game. Yet, people will cry about Superman/BA cause they are much easier to use in high level play.

On SRK and Tekken Zaibatsu, there is no tier list thread that pops up every week. That's a major problem in this community, people live and die off of a tier list that can't possibly be correct or complete for several reasons.
 
CrimsonShadow

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Nori Batousai said:
Bane is for sure better than people give him credit for, but nobody in their right mind will look at the entire roster, all the chars and what they can do, and put Bane top 10. Matchups are theory based, especially in a game out since only april. Just because people are putting a certain char beats a certain char, doesn't mean it's impossible for that char to win.

The major problem w/this community is people reacting before thinking. Nobody truly takes the time to realize (a small percentage of people) that it's very possible that Wonder Woman is the best char in the game. Yet, people will cry about Superman/BA cause they are much easier to use in high level play.

On SRK and Tekken Zaibatsu, there is no tier list thread that pops up every week. That's a major problem in this community, people live and die off of a tier list that can't possibly be correct or complete for several reasons.
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Yeah, I'm not fixated on 'Top 10" specifically. If anything the results would suggest that he isn't.

What I'm saying is, if (using Bane as a random hypothetical example) Bane players started to regularly appear in Top 8's at stacked majors, it seems reasonable that there might be cause to reevaluate how terrible people thought the character was, and question people's initial assumptions.
 
RWDY Nori

RWDY Nori

MK is kinda dope
In time, of course it's possible. I just don't think, especially w/a patch every 48 hours (like MK9), it's taking longer for the meta game to complete itself. Over time, again, if (insert your example here) places consistently over time, then the community would have no choice but to acknowledge it
 
cR WoundCowboy

cR WoundCowboy

WoundCowbae <3
Raven is at least 4-6 and I think Superman is 5-5. Regardless, Sinestro does well against all of the top characters except Aqua.
 
haketh

haketh

Champion
I do think the focus on what people percieve as the top tiers right now is hindering development of the game. It's similiar to whats going on with UMVC3, people are so focused on whats good now and current results no one wants to acknowledge what could happen when someone gets extremely good witha character like Viper or use an assist like Jam Session. We got some highly capable characters in this game like Wonder Woman, MMH, Batgirl, and KF barely anyone are using due to how good Supes adn BA are right now. The worse part is people not doing more work to evaluate these characters and overblowing their strengths *Referring to BA and Supes*.
 
ZigZag

ZigZag

That Welsh Guy
CrimsonShadow said:
But lets say (hypothetically) he placed 3rd at two different stacked US majors with Bane, and then someone else made Top 8 with bane after that -- would it be completely crazy to start entertaining the idea that Bane might be better than people originally thought? :p

I don't think either "results never matter, only theory" or "only results matter, never theory" is correct.. I think you need both and they both help balance each other out.

Like rev0ver and khaotik, they both help to fill... in... each other's... ho-- ok, nevermind.
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It's not crazy to entertain the idea because he is WAY Better than people let on, but he's not top 10 let's be honest...
 
juicepouch

juicepouch

blink-182 enthusiast
haketh said:
I do think the focus on what people percieve as the top tiers right now is hindering development of the game. It's similiar to whats going on with UMVC3, people are so focused on whats good now and current results no one wants to acknowledge what could happen when someone gets extremely good witha character like Viper or use an assist like Jam Session. We got some highly capable characters in this game like Wonder Woman, MMH, Batgirl, and KF barely anyone are using due to how good Supes adn BA are right now. The worse part is people not doing more work to evaluate these characters and overblowing their strengths *Referring to BA and Supes*.
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The martian specifically has me perplexed. When he was released I remember everyone talking about how good he was, and as far as I know I don't think anybody outside of REO ever uses him in tourneys
 
P

PLAYING TO WIN

Champion
Blind_Man said:
Fear blast is faster than all her zoning options, it also punishes soul crush on block(not sure if it will at max range). Shackles are faster than everything in demon stance except soul crush. Reflect is more useful than I previously thought but fear blast can't be reflected on reaction. I think the mu is hard for both players.
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Regardless if its faster she has that thing in demon stance that on trade leads to full combo and if u bait shackles then its full screen full combo punishable
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
juicepouch said:
The martian specifically has me perplexed. When he was released I remember everyone talking about how good he was, and as far as I know I don't think anybody outside of REO ever uses him in tourneys
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Because this community does not like to put in work. When a new DLC character is out that is complex and requires much work to win and understand people will simply keep using their mains, whether it's a tournament or online.
 
zaf

zaf

professor
Zoidberg747 said:
zaf I havent finished reading the thread yet but comparing Injustice to Smash community is making me cringe.

Those guys have been playing the game FOR TWELVE YEARS. We havent even been playing for one. Hell, for all we know this isnt even the last patch.

If five years down the line people still play Injustice(kinda doubt it tbh) and you want to do the backroom idea then the list might hold some weight. Right now I dont care if you get the best players in the world, this game has not been explored enough to give a definitive tier list.

If you were to do it it would definitely have to be no more than 10 people. The MK9 one was a train wreck because it had like 50 who disagreed on everything.
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There is no problem in comparing how one community handles a tier list from the other.
We have not been doing this for one, we have been doing this since the release of mk9.
Nothing has changed in how we handle tier lists.

I do agree that this game has not yet been explored but we can still speculate with what we have now.
Smash also has had a back room at a very early point in the game's life. Their tier list has changed over the years a lot, and it also is always being updated. No harm in us starting now and have an evolving tier list.

More then 10 people, probably, but the amount of people I want will be no where near 50 rofl.
Do not know yet.
 
Zoidberg747

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Qwark28 said:
Because this community does not like to put in work. When a new DLC character is out that is complex and requires much work to win and understand people will simply keep using their mains, whether it's a tournament or online.
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Most of my FL has MMH as a secondary(They travel to tourneys too)
 
ApocaLips

ApocaLips

Kombatant
Nori Batousai said:
On SRK and Tekken Zaibatsu, there is no tier list thread that pops up every week. That's a major problem in this community, people live and die off of a tier list that can't possibly be correct or complete for several reasons.
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That's because on SRK there's one perpetual stickied tier discussion thread for everyone to vent in, and stray tier conversation gets funneled there. And there were PLENTY of tier allegations early in the game's life, particularly people wailing like banshees about Sentinel, which resulted in possibly the most ridiculous nerf in recent fighting game history.
 
Awsumpossm

Awsumpossm

Apprentice
xKhaoTik said:
If placings really did matter about making a tier list, then the top characters would be Superman, Aquaman, Black Adam, Sinestro and GA. Does that seem like a legit top 5 to you?
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Yes. I main WW and I really don't see why so many people place her so high. Though I do agree with your point. People seem to base their tier opinions on just that-opinions, instead of results.
 
RWDY Nori

RWDY Nori

MK is kinda dope
ApocaLips said:
That's because on SRK there's one perpetual stickied tier discussion thread for everyone to vent in, and stray tier conversation gets funneled there. And there were PLENTY of tier allegations early in the game's life, particularly people wailing like banshees about Sentinel, which resulted in possibly the most ridiculous nerf in recent fighting game history.
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good points. I think Kano in mk9 got it far worse. At least sent in umvc3 Is playable still
 
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