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Match-up Discussion My Raven MU Chart

Am I an idiot?

  • Total voters
    18
OG Mannimal

OG Mannimal

OG "OG Mannimal" Mannimal
Aquaman: 6-4
Ares: 6-4
Bane: 4-6
Batgirl: 5-5
Batman: 6-4
Black Adam: 5-5
Catwoman: 4-6
Cyborg: 7-3
Deathstroke: 4-6
Doomsday: 3-7
Flash: 3-7
Green Arrow: 6-4
Green Lantern: 6-4
Harley Quinn: 6-4
Hawkgirl: 6-4
The Joker: 5-5
Killer Frost: 5-5
Lex Luthor: 6-4
Lobo: 4-6
Martian Manhunter: 4-6
Nightwing: 5-5
Raven:5-5
Scorpion: 5-5
Shazam: 6-4
Sinestro: 5-5
Solomon Grundy: 3-7
Superman: 6-4
Wonderwoman: 5-5
Zatanna: 6-4
Zod: 5-5
 
Last edited:
afrozilla86

afrozilla86

Apprentice
At least you were smart in putting a disclosure saying that it is in your personal opinion. Can't help but respect a person's opinion that admits they can be wrong, even if you do not agree with the comments.
Wouldn't mind playing some matches for fun online if you are on psn sometime, only like 4 good ravens to play on psn.
 
OG Mannimal

OG Mannimal

OG "OG Mannimal" Mannimal
afrozilla86 said:
At least you were smart in putting a disclosure saying that it is in your personal opinion. Can't help but respect a person's opinion that admits they can be wrong, even if you do not agree with the comments.
Wouldn't mind playing some matches for fun online if you are on psn sometime.
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I'm on 360 sorry
 
Circus

Circus

Part-Time Kano Hostage
These numbers are just all over the place man, sorry. And your explanations are even more off putting.
 
afrozilla86

afrozilla86

Apprentice
Yea experience varies on system. Psn seems to have some of the best black Adam raven g.l nightwing Ares harley and flash mains while xbox you see more aqua man ww sinestro and others from my experiences. Supes is universal.
 
cpmd4

cpmd4

Slaughter is the Best Medicine
Harley Quinn: 8-2 The MU is pretty ridiculous. I don't think I really need to explain why. Could be a 7-3 depending on your opponents MU knowledge.
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First of all, "depending on MU knowledge" cannot be used to change a match-up rating. You have to assume that both players are of equal skill and know the match-up. If I didn't know the match-up it could be 10-0, that's on me not the character.

I also think this number is much too high. Raven forces Harley to come in, but she CAN get in. She's better up close, has more damage that doesn't require meter, has awesome mixups and knock-down set-ups and Raven's wake-ups are pretty bad. Not to mention Harley is awesome in the corner, which is where Raven will be headed while she works her way in. She also beats her at full screen when she's not in trait since Soul Crush won't reach, so if she gets ahead Raven needs to go in. Her air guns bring her outside of Soul Crush height, too.

When Raven's in Demon Stance Harley basically needs to just wait it out, but at worst she's going to take some chip until it's on cooldown and she can go in again. She can't really do anything about it, but it does have a cooldown. She needs to be patient but it's far from an 8-2 IMO. I wouldn't go further than 6-4.
 
Blind_Ducky

Blind_Ducky

Princess of the Sisterhood
cpmd4 said:
First of all, "depending on MU knowledge" cannot be used to change a match-up rating. You have to assume that both players are of equal skill and know the match-up. If I didn't know the match-up it could be 10-0, that's on me not the character.

I also think this number is much too high. Raven forces Harley to come in, but she CAN get in. She's better up close, has more damage that doesn't require meter, has awesome mixups and knock-down set-ups and Raven's wake-ups are pretty bad. Not to mention Harley is awesome in the corner, which is where Raven will be headed while she works her way in. She also beats her at full screen when she's not in trait since Soul Crush won't reach, so if she gets ahead Raven needs to go in. Her air guns bring her outside of Soul Crush height, too.

When Raven's in Demon Stance Harley basically needs to just wait it out, but at worst she's going to take some chip until it's on cooldown and she can go in again. She can't really do anything about it, but it does have a cooldown. She needs to be patient but it's far from an 8-2 IMO. I wouldn't go further than 6-4.
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Raven never needs to go in unless its a ridiculous life lead. Demon stance = 7-3 mu.

Just sitting there means you'll eat about 20% chip. Cool down is 5-6 seconds. You think you'll get in and do serious damage in that time without getting hit by a soul crush a combo and being sent back while she cancels into demon stance? Not happening. You need to get in and stay in 100% of the time otherwise it's over. At full screen gunshots take 2 frames or so to hit raven so they trade in Ravens favor with pillars and pull for a meter less combo for Raven. If Harley tries to get in during demon stance no matter what she does she is blocking or getting hit by a pillar. This mu is complete hell for Harley.
 
zaf

zaf

professor
the only mu i think i really agree with here is doomsday
this is one of the worst in the game
it sucks having single hit zoning against pure armor. its a joke really.

Blind_Man you find a solution to this mu or maybe an alt?
 
cpmd4

cpmd4

Slaughter is the Best Medicine
Blind_Man said:
Raven never needs to go in unless its a ridiculous life lead. Demon stance = 7-3 mu.
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Can I not just eat the chip from Demon Stance and resume my full-screen game after it's on cooldown? Certainly the chip damage you'll do won't close the gap enough to not force you in if you're behind; how much chip can you do while trait is active that will force me to stop crouching? You have to move in at least to Soul Crush range outside of trait, I would assume, and you won't get there until I corner myself.

What are you going to open me up if I don't move, unless you come in? Unless chip IS that significant?

I am assuming a life lead, here, of course, not something like a few percent, half a life bar at least.
 
Blind_Ducky

Blind_Ducky

Princess of the Sisterhood
cpmd4 said:
Can I not just eat the chip from Demon Stance and resume my full-screen game after it's on cooldown? Certainly the chip damage you'll do won't close the gap enough to not force you in if you're behind; how much chip can you do while trait is active that will force me to stop crouching? You have to move in at least to Soul Crush range outside of trait, I would assume, and you won't get there until I corner myself.

What are you going to open me up if I don't move, unless you come in? Unless chip IS that significant?

I am assuming a life lead, here, of course, not something like a few percent, half a life bar at least.
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Read the edit I made. This mu is ass
Harley has no full screen game against Raven.
zaf I'll explain how I currently feel about the doomsday mu in a couple hours since schools about to start. It's definitely 6-4 doomsday though.
 
zaf

zaf

professor
Blind_Man said:
Read the edit I made. This mu is ass
Harley has no full screen game against Raven.
zaf I'll explain how I currently feel about the doomsday mu in a couple hours since schools about to start. It's definitely 6-4 doomsday though.
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only a 6-4? i see.
ill wait for the response.

i think i had found some shit to help out against his trait. ill tell you when you get back on later.
if it still works, it might be a way to eliminate his trait as a threat
 
cpmd4

cpmd4

Slaughter is the Best Medicine
Blind_Man said:
Raven never needs to go in unless its a ridiculous life lead. Demon stance = 7-3 mu.

Just sitting there means you'll eat about 20% chip. Cool down is 5-6 seconds. You think you'll get in and do serious damage in that time without getting hit by a soul crush a combo and being sent back while she cancels into demon stance? Not happening. You need to get in and stay in 100% of the time otherwise it's over. At full screen gunshots take 2 frames or so to hit raven so they trade in Ravens favor with pillars and pull for a meter less combo for Raven. If Harley tries to get in during demon stance no matter what she does she is blocking or getting hit by a pillar. This mu is complete hell for Harley.
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Just to clarify, when I say full-screen game I am talking about outside of Demon Stance. Don't get me wrong, I definitely agree that Demon Stance is hell for her, at just about any distance. She needs to get a life-lead or get on top of you before you get a chance to trait.

If you can do 20% in chip that's better than I thought. I suppose it also becomes a major problem once Harley is cornered and she's not outside Soul Crush range anymore so she can't use her gunshots... Not that I was really suggesting Harley ever run away from Raven, it was more about if Raven gets away or a clash happens. Though I guess you're right, it would have to be a huge health lead for Harley or time to be almost out for her to stay at full screen.

I agree the match-up is bad. I just don't think it's bad enough to say 7-3. If she was in Demon Stance all of the time, sure, but with the cooldown I think it's a 6-4.
 
afrozilla86

afrozilla86

Apprentice
I thought the most chip raven could do in demon stance on an enemy dashing back and forth outside of soul crush range was 14-16. But that may be due to the fact that I usually force raven to trait in the air for a chance of not being punisheD or because I have never been locked in the corner against dark raven. But the main fact is eating all that damage and her getting meter for it is not a good idea unless you are confident you can get in if you feel like it for minimum risk, or you feel like you know all the holes in her zoning to be reasonably safe to make her meter irrelevant. Raven's strings are not bad, but can be made nonexistent if you know how to block well or you have the life lead (Not much of a fault considering this applies to a lot of characters.) And she is one of the best characters to have against a lot of the cast once you have an established life lead so she can make it a downhill battle for you. Given harley's answer's, I think this may be in raven's favor from a non biased non pro riding point of view
 
Blind_Ducky

Blind_Ducky

Princess of the Sisterhood
cpmd4 said:
Just to clarify, when I say full-screen game I am talking about outside of Demon Stance. Don't get me wrong, I definitely agree that Demon Stance is hell for her, at just about any distance. She needs to get a life-lead or get on top of you before you get a chance to trait.

If you can do 20% in chip that's better than I thought. I suppose it also becomes a major problem once Harley is cornered and she's not outside Soul Crush range anymore so she can't use her gunshots... Not that I was really suggesting Harley ever run away from Raven, it was more about if Raven gets away or a clash happens. Though I guess you're right, it would have to be a huge health lead for Harley or time to be almost out for her to stay at full screen.

I agree the match-up is bad. I just don't think it's bad enough to say 7-3. If she was in Demon Stance all of the time, sure, but with the cooldown I think it's a 6-4.
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Outsideof demon stance at full screen all you can do is whiff gunshots that can get reflect or throw mb cupcakes that also get reflected. If you have a slight life lead all I have to do us wait for demon stance and she gets it back so fast that cool down is not a factor.

Harley can never use gunshots when Raven is in demon stance. At 3/4 and beyond gunshots trade with pillars & pull in Ravens favor.
 
@MylesWright_

@MylesWright_

I'll be back 3ing
I wouldn't say you can't zone catwoman because of mb cat dash. Probably more along the lines of raw cat dash punishing soul crush, i'd say its 5-5.
No comment on that 3-7 KF matchup. No doubt its just the regular KF up-players that convinced you of tha
 
Circus

Circus

Part-Time Kano Hostage
@MylesWright_ said:
No comment on that 3-7 KF matchup. No doubt its just the regular KF up-players that convinced you of tha
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Iceberg punishes Soul Crush (for full combo into vortex if she MBs). Slide goes under raven toss. Raven's wakeup game is bad, KF is better up close, KF could iceberg freely from full screen (outside of crush range), vortex in general, ect.

If it weren't for Demon Stance it'd be 3-7 but because of it I'd say it's 4-6 or maybe even closer to 4.5-5.5.
 
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