Injustice: The True Top 10 Characters based off of tournament results by P2W (NA edition)

[MK Peanuts]

This is really interesting data. Thanks for taking the time to put it together.

 

[Shadow Zero Kyo]

At least this makes sense.

 

[Paranoia]

Although this list is based on tournament results, it doesn't make sense to place Green Arrow as 4th place.

Green Arrow might be a solid character, but he's not a character for everyone and anyone. There's only one player we know who uses GA to his full potential, or hell even just uses GA in general, and that is Chris G. So to place a character as the fourth best character in the game solely based on the results of one high caliber player is not objective, or logical.

 

[GGA Max]

snip

Hey, as late as it may be

In the case of Chris G, shouldn't you count his Black Adam and GA as kind of a "half" appearance?

It gives extra points to these characters, if he happened to use Bane once in each top 8, and won as many top 8's as he did, it would look like Bane is a Top 10 Character.

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

Hey, as late as it may be

In the case of Chris G, shouldn't you count his Black Adam and GA as kind of a "half" appearance?

It gives extra points to these characters, if he happened to use Bane once in each top 8, and won as many top 8's as he did, it would look like Bane is a Top 10 Character.

I get ur point man. I just had to stay objective. If a character appeared in top 8 i counted it. Even though a player may use a character once, it may have been a good decision and they won.

Im on my phone so i cant type out much more. Basically im highlighting who we have seen in the top 8

 

[REDRUM]

Although this list is based on tournament results, it doesn't make sense to place Green Arrow as 4th place..

But it DOES make sense...


This list P2W compiled is data/statistics based not ones opinion on Tier Char rankings...

Its just a results list for Majors with 100+ entrants and it just fleshes out the results of the Top 8's.

He's NOT saying Green Arrow is the 4th best character based off of his opinion he's saying GA is 4th based off the raw results.

 

[godlessmode]

He's NOT saying Green Arrow is the 4th best character based off of his opinion he's saying GA is 4th based off the raw results.

It's been brought up before, but unfortunately with his approach you cannot differentiate the success of the character from the success of the player. It's not even a "GA is 4th best based on results" list it's "As far as characters that placed in tournaments GA has placed pretty decently as long as ChrisG is in the tournament".

 

[Paranoia]

GA is a special case because Chris G is the only one that plays him on a competitive level. You can't really differentiate whether it's a case of player's skill or a character's true tier, although im willing to bet it's more of the former than the latter.

I still think it doesn't make sense, because this list is still a "top 10" list, and basing your choice for the 4th character on the basis of the results of only one player is not ideal or objective. It's a special case, yeah, and there's no way around it, but it is what it is, and it's still not objective enough (to me at least).

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

It's been brought up before, but unfortunately with his approach you cannot differentiate the success of the character from the success of the player. It's not even a "GA is 4th best based on results" list it's "As far as characters that placed in tournaments GA has placed pretty decently as long as ChrisG is in the tournament".

would chris g have been no less than top 3 if he used bane? joker?

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

but it is what it is, and it's still not objective enough (to me at least).

then you do not understand the term 'objective'

 

[godlessmode]

would chris g have been no less than top 3 if he used bane? joker?

Dunno. Maybe? Maybe not, that would be pure speculation.

However, If you adjust GA's position based on ChrisG's position, and do the same with all of the other characters/players, GA moves down the list, BA moves up, Superman stays about the same and it improves the predictive accuracy.

I'm really not discrediting your post, just clarifying a point. Right now you did a lot of work and put together an accurate representation of how players, and characters have placed in the subset of majors you used. But by no means does it objectively present a character balance, or character rating.

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

Dunno. Maybe? Maybe not, that would be pure speculation.

However, If you adjust GA's position based on ChrisG's position, and do the same with all of the other characters/players, GA moves down the list, BA moves up, Superman stays about the same and it improves the predictive accuracy.

I'm really not discrediting your post, just clarifying a point. Right now you did a lot of work and put together an accurate representation of how players, and characters have placed in the subset of majors you used. But by no means does it objectively present a character balance, or character rating.

The level of analysis u are capable of doing is awesome but the data just is not there. Im keeping it simple

 

[mutantmagnet]

this is a very good summary, of the characters who have performed in injustice tourneys.
people on here just cant take, that a factual chart comprised of tournament results has Green arrow and a few others in top 10.
i thought tier list in general are based on tournament results.
so why are people on here discounting clean evidence that GA according to tourney results is top 10.
a lot of people on here just want to make excuses GA is a solid character and if Chris g can do it so can you.
some people on this site, jump the gun way to fast.

Tier lists have never been made with tournaments in mind because player skill gaps would distort character rankings.

That said it isn't unreasonable to find a way to use tournaments to help create tier lists. Play to Win's rudimentary approach isn't good enough because it doesn't address the fundamental problem. The followup discussion about using ELO and similar ranking systems to seperate the player skill from the character is more on the right track.

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

Sorry but theory fighting and top tier "on paper" really means nothing lol

Results are all that matter.

I remember when ae came out and everyone was talking how gouken was top tier... Lol that characters has never won a major.

 

[Groove Heaven]

I almost feel like Scorpion should be taken off the list because his current build is so far divorced from the one he took tournament wins with.

 

[godlessmode]

I almost feel like Scorpion should be taken off the list because his current build is so far divorced from the one he took tournament wins with.

Best way to approach that would be to weight the events based on the patch version.

 

[its_ezie]

as soon as i seen sinestro i didnt even read the rest lmao

 

[Zatoichi]

Am I the only one that noticed that Scorpion appeared in only ONE tournament?

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

This will simply show the trend of which characters are winning under the constraints put on the data.

Seriously, this is like High School math stuff. How hard is it to read and understand and not cry foul?